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Characters that should be arch enemies

Jabroniville

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Re: Characters that should be arch enemies
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2016, 04:48:01 PM »
The Kingpin (vs) Fat Cobra- it needs to happen. Actually, any Martial Arts Hero pairs off well against one of the most dangerous fighters in the MU.

Flag-Smasher (vs) The Black Panther, Doctor Doom or the Winter Guard- an anti-nationalist is the natural foe of a lot of "National Symbol" type characters, especially if they're also the LEADER of a country. Unfortunately, FS is largely a joke these days.

JookDukem

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Re: Characters that should be arch enemies
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2016, 06:31:37 PM »
They did this already but I always thought The Juggernaut would make a fantastic Rogue to Spidey particularly.

He's like the exact opposite of Spidey in every physical way yet they kind of have a common ground in their little quips they like to throw around and shit. Plus the way that particular fight ended was dope and it would be interesting to see how/if writers could come up with different ways for Spidey to deal with that kind of threat.

I suppose Rhino already fits the bill kind of, but Juggs is just on a whole nother le'el.

JookDukem

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Re: Characters that should be arch enemies
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2016, 06:33:04 PM »
Then again he may not be a good ARCH rival at all.

Damn, that suggestion was like, the exact opposite of all of Ares' actual useul responses hahahahahaha.

Rekt, me.

g-train

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Re: Characters that should be arch enemies
« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2016, 12:25:36 PM »
Cyborg (DC hero) and Cyborg (DC villain)?

I mean; both had their lives transformed by horrific accidents, one went and found the will to live and became a hero.

The other let his bitterness and despair consume himself and became a villain.

Cyborg-H gets by on tech. and science whereas Cyborg-V has an almost absolute mastery of any and all scientific technology he comes across.

They seem like they would have a good play on each other as characters.




g-train

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Re: Characters that should be arch enemies
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2016, 04:18:28 PM »
Going back to this well; The High Evolutionary and X-Man?

Thinking about it; kind of strange; The High E' has meddled with humans, he's meddled with gods, he's meddled with beasts and even insects I believe......but has he ever experimented on straight out mutants?

Also High E' exists on a level where X-Man can't just get by on his power.

Factor in during his shaman days X-Man was a natural outsider type who basically let things play out how they do except for extreme scenario's and you have two people on opposite ends of the spectrum for morality and philosophy.



g-train

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Re: Characters that should be arch enemies
« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2016, 11:32:00 PM »
Batgirl and Harley Quinn?

Considering both of them were inspired by their respective heroes to done the "cape" so to speak.

I could see how them having to fight/meet might cause some uncomfortable levels of introspection.....say an insult to one another that they might realize could apply to themselves equally well sort of deal.

Twisted mirror kind of thing going.

Ares

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Re: Characters that should be arch enemies
« Reply #21 on: April 04, 2016, 01:21:16 AM »
Iron Man versus the Hellfire Club could have been interesting, at least the old school club when it was a group of old school wealthy nobility types using power for profit. You could see them having some conflict with Tony, possibly trying to influence him and him having to fight back. It is a case of having one group of privileged rich fight another, but in Tony's case he's built himself back up from nothing, being much more of a self-made guy at this point and a true benevolent capitalist. Plus he'd need to come up with all of these tactics against the different members of the club, etc.

Mightily Oats

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Re: Characters that should be arch enemies
« Reply #22 on: April 04, 2016, 01:28:11 AM »
Iron Man versus the Hellfire Club could have been interesting, at least the old school club when it was a group of old school wealthy nobility types using power for profit. You could see them having some conflict with Tony, possibly trying to influence him and him having to fight back. It is a case of having one group of privileged rich fight another, but in Tony's case he's built himself back up from nothing, being much more of a self-made guy at this point and a true benevolent capitalist. Plus he'd need to come up with all of these tactics against the different members of the club, etc.
That would have made a really good story.

Tony vs Shaw would be a great fight.

Ares

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Re: Characters that should be arch enemies
« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2016, 10:51:33 AM »
Thanks guys. I know editorial is a large reason, but one underutilized aspect of superhero comics seems to be one person usually sticking to a stable rogues group, rather than face appropriate opponents. Magneto and the Juggernaut are among the only two X-Men foes who semi-regularly fight non-mutant superheroes for instance. The old Hellfire club seems like it would have been perfect foes for several heroes.

MTL76

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Re: Characters that should be arch enemies
« Reply #24 on: April 04, 2016, 02:17:38 PM »
It's surprising heroes don't swap rogues more often. It seems a lot easier than coming up with new ones.


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Jabroniville

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Re: Characters that should be arch enemies
« Reply #25 on: April 06, 2016, 03:42:41 AM »
It's surprising heroes don't swap rogues more often. It seems a lot easier than coming up with new ones.
Yeah, like Ares said, Editorial is often the reason. Comic book editors kind of get their back hair up every time someone plays with on of their "toys", and it's so behind-the-scenes that we rarely hear about it. There's a very good chance the X-Editor would refuse to allow one of his villains be used for another person's book. One of the few actual stories I've heard was that the Dr. Strange editor refused to allow Chris Claremont to have Nightmare be revealed as Nightcrawler's real father.

It can be kind of a pissing contest, though I can see how Editors would like to keep things close- lest other writers just mess with their guys or hurt their credibility.

It really wasn't always the way, though. Marvel Team-Up features a LOT of villains mixing it up with heroes. And Acts of Vegeance was an entire EVENT based around this. Well, more of an ongoing story that only the Avengers books really dealt with in a big way. Still, it was an unpretentious, fun story.

Ares

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Re: Characters that should be arch enemies
« Reply #26 on: April 06, 2016, 04:13:27 AM »
Yeah, editors can be extremely possessive of characters, and there's often fighting over who has "dibs" on certain characters. For the longest time, Dick Grayson was largely a Titans character, but once he left that book the Bat Editorial grabbed him back up and there was conflict over using the character frequently. Supposedly one reason they started having Dick sleep around with Huntress, Catwoman, Batgirl and the like was to keep Dick more securely in the Bat Books, as having Dick continue his romance with Starfire would just reinforce the Titans connection.

Really dumb stuff like that supposedly happens all the time. The old Titans vs JLA: Technis Imperative crossover had to be re-done several times because the JLA editors kept butting heads with the writer over presentation of the League.

And yeah, Acts of Vengeance was a lot of fun, and just a good excuse to have heroes fight new baddies.

Jabroniville

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Re: Characters that should be arch enemies
« Reply #27 on: April 06, 2016, 10:33:35 PM »
The Beast's big change was largely due to Steve Englehart. Once he was on the outs with Marvel, and Claremont was KILLING it on the X-Men book, it was inevitable that the X-Editors would snap him back. Louise Simonson ended up grabbing him for X-Factor, changing him back to a normal human in the process (in addition to writing some of the most horrible story ideas in history). Though I think by that point, there was a different guy working on Avengers, so it didn't bother them so much.

It's frickin' weird to go back and read those Avengers Beast stories and seeing him as this whacky, jovial prankster who uses modern slang and acts like a college beatnik (ie. pothead), though. It was like Englehart changed him utterly, and then the next writers COMPLETELY changed tracks and made him into the "Oh my stars and garters" dignified role he later utilized. He is absolutely unrecognizable from his Avengers run.

Mightily Oats

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Re: Characters that should be arch enemies
« Reply #28 on: April 07, 2016, 07:30:22 AM »
The Beast's big change was largely due to Steve Englehart. Once he was on the outs with Marvel, and Claremont was KILLING it on the X-Men book, it was inevitable that the X-Editors would snap him back. Louise Simonson ended up grabbing him for X-Factor, changing him back to a normal human in the process (in addition to writing some of the most horrible story ideas in history). Though I think by that point, there was a different guy working on Avengers, so it didn't bother them so much.

It's frickin' weird to go back and read those Avengers Beast stories and seeing him as this whacky, jovial prankster who uses modern slang and acts like a college beatnik (ie. pothead), though. It was like Englehart changed him utterly, and then the next writers COMPLETELY changed tracks and made him into the "Oh my stars and garters" dignified role he later utilized. He is absolutely unrecognizable from his Avengers run.
Was Louise banging Walt before or after she became a Marvel writer?

Mightily Oats

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Re: Characters that should be arch enemies
« Reply #29 on: April 07, 2016, 08:18:59 AM »
That explains all that it needs to.

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