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Julian Assange is goin' to jail

NeoGreenLantern

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Re: Julian Assange is goin' to jail
« Reply #45 on: April 12, 2019, 04:41:31 PM »
AP, do you trust AP? Because I trust AP, AP.

AP

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Re: Julian Assange is goin' to jail
« Reply #46 on: April 12, 2019, 06:22:42 PM »
AP, do you trust AP? Because I trust AP, AP.

Typically, AP is pro-AP.

therock

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Re: Julian Assange is goin' to jail
« Reply #47 on: April 12, 2019, 10:29:03 PM »
but really what outlet do you trust
Legit curious

AP

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Re: Julian Assange is goin' to jail
« Reply #48 on: April 12, 2019, 10:39:10 PM »
but really what outlet do you trust
Legit curious

The Young Turks and their affiliates

Humanist Report

Secular Talk

Majority Report

I trust most non-US outlets mostly out of not knowing which ones are full of BS.  I'm just aware that The Sun and Dailymail are right wing rags and at least one is owned by Rupert Murdoch himself.

Basically, anything that isn't owned by a major US corporation.

Snake-eyes

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Re: Julian Assange is goin' to jail
« Reply #49 on: April 12, 2019, 11:55:20 PM »
When you say you trust The Young Turks. You don't actually mean you trust them to be honest and unbiased, right?

therock

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Re: Julian Assange is goin' to jail
« Reply #50 on: April 13, 2019, 12:58:50 AM »
but really what outlet do you trust
Legit curious

The Young Turks and their affiliates

Humanist Report

Secular Talk

Majority Report

I trust most non-US outlets mostly out of not knowing which ones are full of BS.  I'm just aware that The Sun and Dailymail are right wing rags and at least one is owned by Rupert Murdoch himself.

Basically, anything that isn't owned by a major US corporation.
Suprise by Young Turks. They pushed the Russia Stuff as much as CNN and shat on Julian Assange

Aren't MOST of those people are guys who comment on mainstream news and just give their opinion. They are getting most of there stuff from mainstream news

I mean hell I AGREE with most of what Sam Seeder says.  But he pretty fucking bias.

AP

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Re: Julian Assange is goin' to jail
« Reply #51 on: April 13, 2019, 06:29:17 AM »
I'm more of a fan of Jimmy Dore, obviously, but they've been pretty good in the past.

MTL76

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Re: Julian Assange is goin' to jail
« Reply #52 on: April 13, 2019, 09:06:44 AM »
When you say you trust The Young Turks. You don't actually mean you trust them to be honest and unbiased, right?


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nu-safado

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Re: Julian Assange is goin' to jail
« Reply #53 on: April 14, 2019, 03:17:58 AM »
When the Youn Turks were about getting money out of politics and unlimited campaign finance I was all for them.

At this point, they're a grassroots left-wing Fox news. I don't need to click on their videos to know what they're going to see. It's a bummer

OK

Quote
He has done some truly honorable, brave, and heroic things in revealing what the U.S. military was doing to civilians, reporters, etc in our overseas wars. That was important information that the public had a right to know, and he should be heralded for doing that.

He has also done some questionably stupid stuff like publicizing entire documents unredacted, leaving sources, informants, and innocents open to consequences of various sorts. Like, a public right to information is great, but you have to accept that some things can't just be unveiled in their entirety because things in the real world have ramifications.

He also seems to have been all-in on using his power and influence to help Trump win the election in 2016. What actual effect he may have had is almost impossible to definitively measure, and whether he was doing it because he likes Trump and just hates Hillary is irrelevant, but from what I have looked up, it's pretty unquestionable that he and his organization showed a pretty substantial bias during the lead up to the election.

Also, there are accusations of a sex crime that everything I looked up was pretty biased about in one way or the other ("he was fleeing because he's a sex criminal" vs "it's a smear job" blah blah blah), but it seems like the case is going to be reopened now that he is "available". There's not enough unbiased info on this one for me to make any real determination.

So I don't know. To me, he seems like a pretty flawed dude who has done heroic things and also some amazingly short-sightedly stupid things. Also, he may or may not be a rapist, but who knows? It's tough to find any real unbiased information about the dude.

I certainly don't buy he that he is some brilliantly altruistic hero. Nor do I buy that he is an evil genius. Here are my two biggest questions:

1) Is there any proof that the information he leaked led to any deaths?

2) Is anything he did during the 2016 election "illegal"?

Other than those items, I am actually most curious about the rape case now that it is allegedly being reopened.

Here's the issue:

Julan Assange is a power broker pretending to be an anarchist, but he clearly has an agenda.

He is NOT Edward Snowden.

A few things he has done

I'm a long-time follower (to say the least) of an organization called Stratfor. They're a geopolitical forecasting organization but have slowly morphed into a corporate risk mitigation, industry analysis, and political backdoor roganization.

There are a lot of private intel organizations like this, usually staffed by ex-military analysts who do things like pay informants all over the world to get info on everything from Mexican drug cartels to Russian oligarchs.

Mostly, they feed businessmen intel and ensure that no one is anywhere unsafe at any particular time

Assange hacked Stratfor's database and published the entire list of subscribers (turned out to be a lot of government leaders from EVERYWHERE in the world) down to informants, e-mail correspondance and who was paying who for info

Do the math - Mexican drug cartels found out that they had informants in their midst from a computer hack that went viral

As for the rest, Assange used black hat means to go after organizations he picked and chose as" evil" and then went about harming them

Whatever info he received pre-election wasn't carefully vetted journo stuff it was whatever damaging leaks he could find from whatever source

However

Given that the aspiring dictator ocupying the White House wants to do away with courts of appeals, would do away with the media if he could, and is generally a threat to Democratic institutions - prosecuting Assange is a threat

Assange tried to get TRump elected. Now that Big Orange is in power, he could use Assange as an attempt to limit the powers of the media and to use anti-espionage laws to go after media he doesn't like. That would be a legitimate threat to Democracy and the current batch of Republicans wouldn't necessarily oppose him

So Assange has to be defended for now.............

I loathe the sight of Assange but I fear what he could be used for more so - defend the creep

Panthergod

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Re: Julian Assange is goin' to jail
« Reply #54 on: April 14, 2019, 05:02:32 PM »
Stratfor is blatantly CIA. If you despise Assange, you've thrown your lot in with the mass murderers and terrorist supporters

nu-safado

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Re: Julian Assange is goin' to jail
« Reply #55 on: April 14, 2019, 06:25:55 PM »
I've spent a lot of time in geopolitics and I know a lot of people who used to work for Stratfor and I  correspond with the founder (George Friedman) when I can get through

Stratfor changed a lot in the last 5-6 years. It was founded by George Friedman as a geopolitical forecasting organization. A lot of DoD, CIA, NSA, and other intelligence-related people came on in recent times and Friedman left partially because of Wikileaks, partially because Stratfor had become a lot like KPMG - a civilian CIA

Thing is, there is a difference.

George Friedman founded Geopolitical Futures - and I had the privilege to talk to him about this at a conference in NY - and part of the reason for leaving was that Stratfor has no longer following his own vision of geopolitical forecasting

even beyond that, trading in information and industry forecasting is a far cry from the CIA and terrorists. All intel from private organizations comes from the ability to pay informants and use open source intelligence. If you use Google earth or know how to look, you can find discrete military bases, missile sites or even where aircraft carrier groups are and what mission they could be on

A lot of intel tradecraft is boring - i.e someone has to look at a North Koren missile site and see if it moved 300 meters to the left and otherwise boring tasks.

So, unless they're exposed and informants are outed - meaning executed by the people they were snitching on, Stratfor and private intelligence is usually pretty toothless

I'd also argue that there is a difference between a self-serving agenda-driven sociopath like Assange - who mysteriously didn't divulge any information on Trump, but had a serious ax to grind with the DNC. I don't think any info on Trump would have affected the outcome - Hillary was just an awful candidate, but where's the equality.

Compare to Snowden who will die in exile or jail, who informed the US public just what was going on and what abuses of power were going on and were coming with irrefutable proof - and continues to do so.

I don't think it's fair to put them on the same level.


superlurker

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Re: Julian Assange is goin' to jail
« Reply #56 on: April 15, 2019, 06:21:55 AM »
If you despise Assange, you've thrown your lot in with the mass murderers and terrorist supporters

On a purely personal basis, Assange is clearly more than a bit of an asshole narcississt. And in terms of aiding mass murderers and terrorists, the way he doesn't redact the material he releases to avoid collateral damage has probably caused its own share of misery. By contrast, Snowden was careful to avoid that. Assange doesn't seem to care that he sometimes ruins innocent lives or the lives of people that don't deserve it, as long as he gets to feel powerful.

Recognizing that Assange is probably a despicable asshole himself doesn't equate to sympathizing with someone else.

nu-safado

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Re: Julian Assange is goin' to jail
« Reply #57 on: April 15, 2019, 12:31:19 PM »
Quote
On a purely personal basis, Assange is clearly more than a bit of an asshole narcississt. And in terms of aiding mass murderers and terrorists, the way he doesn't redact the material he releases to avoid collateral damage has probably caused its own share of misery. By contrast, Snowden was careful to avoid that. Assange doesn't seem to care that he sometimes ruins innocent lives or the lives of people that don't deserve it, as long as he gets to feel powerful.

Recognizing that Assange is probably a despicable asshole himself doesn't equate to sympathizing with someone else.
Modify message

Yes.

Which makes the fact that protecting him now is vital to protecting journalistic freedom all the more distasteful....but necessary

Before Trump's election, there was a large contingent that the Orange could prosecute journalists on anti-espionage law. Assange would be the opening that the White House ghouls could use to create that precedent. If that happened AND Trump is re-elected, things could get dire fast

therock

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Re: Julian Assange is goin' to jail
« Reply #58 on: April 15, 2019, 12:41:45 PM »
also it stands out given the particualr stuff they charging him for

because they could of charge them for other stuff like letting out people personal info and all that


But the thing they charging him for may move into going after media in general

nu-safado

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Re: Julian Assange is goin' to jail
« Reply #59 on: April 15, 2019, 02:20:17 PM »
I'm not sure what they charge him on is important relative to the fact that if journalists (hard to call Assange that) are open season then any charge can be brought up to go after them.