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Doctor calls SWAT team on children’s parents

MTL76

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Doctor calls SWAT team on children’s parents
« on: March 27, 2019, 06:15:40 PM »
https://www.google.com/amp/s/reason.com/blog/2019/03/27/sick-2-year-old-swat-team-dcs-parents/amp

Quote
Chandler, Arizona, cops broke through the door of a family's home in the middle of the night, stormed in, pointed their guns, handcuffed the father, and watched as the state's Department of Child Safety (DCS) took custody of the parents' three kids—all because mom had decided her toddler's fever was not serious enough to merit a trip to the hospital.

What’s really important is that this is considered legal. As long as no laws were broken, we can confidently say that justice was done.


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AP

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Re: Doctor calls SWAT team on children’s parents
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2019, 06:27:17 PM »
Let's say for a moment that the child had a serious fever and needed to go to the emergency room.  The SWAT team would be needed because.... ?

MTL76

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Re: Doctor calls SWAT team on children’s parents
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2019, 07:10:20 PM »
The fucked up thing is that there isn’t any one person to blame. Everyone involved is complicit. The doctor, the cops, their bosses, the social workers, the politicians who passed these laws that allow such abuses to happen. At no time do any of them stop and consider what a catastrophe this is.


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Bran Mak Morn

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Re: Doctor calls SWAT team on children’s parents
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2019, 01:48:47 AM »
The fucked up thing is that there isn’t any one person to blame.

I'd put all the blame on the doctor...who was "unsure if the child was vaccinated."

Ok I don't know what the medical protocol is in America but a simple check on the child's medical database would've confirmed whether they were up to date on their vac shots or not.

Even here doctors aren't entitled to dob in anti-vaxxers.
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Tjackflash

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Re: Doctor calls SWAT team on children’s parents
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2019, 09:31:30 AM »
     What everyone seems to be disregarding is that a doctor can’t call in SWAT. That was a police call and not an unwarranted one. As a past resident of Arizona the chances that this could have turned into a shootout with automatic weapons was pretty good.  When I was living in Phoenix Az. Purchasing a hand gun was easier than video rental.  This is not an exaggeration, at that time to walk out of a gun shop with a weapon you were only required to provide two pieces of ID. To start an account at Blockbuster you needed three.  The day I decided to get the hell out of Dodge was one morning listening to the local news while getting ready for work during the traffic report there was mentioned a slowdown on a local highway because of a hostage situation. I listened carefully for the next hour and it wasn’t brought up again ‘til the next traffic report.
   Guns were so prevelent there that several times a week somebody would lose their job or break up with their wife or girlfriend or get the wrong change back at the Quick Stop, strap on the ‘ole shooting iron and “take care of ‘bidness”.
As to Bran Mak Morn, there is no such database and unfortunately America is going through one of it’s occasional case of the stupids and people are believing that childhood vaccinations are bad.  This is leading to people sending kids to schools and daycares who are infected with diseases that should have been wiped out decades ago.

   P.S.  I just noticed on this site the thread about an anti vaxxer getting Chicken Pox.  Good, maybe the stupid will all die out and leave the place for the rest of us.
 
« Last Edit: March 28, 2019, 07:12:34 PM by Tjackflash »
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AP

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Re: Doctor calls SWAT team on children’s parents
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2019, 09:43:50 AM »
     What everyone seems to be disregarding is that a doctor can’t call in SWAT. That was a police call and not an unwarranted one. As a past resident of Arizona the chances that this could have turned into a shootout with automatic weapons was pretty good.  When I was living in Phoenix Az. Purchasing a hand gun was easier than video rental.  This is not an exaggeration, at that time to walk out of a gun shop with a weapon you were only required to provide two pieces of ID. To start an account at Blockbuster you needed three.  The day I decided to get the hell out of Dodge was one morning listening to the local news while getting ready for work during the traffic report there was mentioned a slowdown on a local highway because of a hostage situation. I listened carefully for the next hour and it wasn’t brought up again ‘til the next traffic report.
   Guns were so prevelent there that several times a week somebody would lose their job or break up with their wife or girlfriend or get the wrong change back at the Quick Stop, strap on the ‘ole shooting iron and “take care of ‘bidness”.
As to Bran Mak Morn, there is no such database and unfortunately America is going through one of it’s occasional case of the stupids and a people are believing that childhood vaccinations are bad.  This is leading to people sending kids to schools and daycares who are infected with diseases that should have been wiped out decades ago.

   P.S.  I just noticed on this site the thread about an anti vaxxer getting Chicken Pox.  Good, maybe the stupid will all die out and leave the place for the rest of us.
 


The mom in this scenario was not anti-vax, though.  The baby's fever had subsided, so she felt a trip to the emergency room was unneeded.

And again, I'm not seeing the need to call the cops.  Child services, maybe.  Maybe.  This isn't a case where some dude broke up with his girl and they think he might go postal.  This is the case of a random family making a decision about whether or not to go to the hospital.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2019, 09:45:39 AM by AP »

MTL76

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Re: Doctor calls SWAT team on children’s parents
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2019, 10:05:32 AM »
“Good evening, Mrs. Johnson, the hospital informed me that you hadn’t taken littleBilly to the ER yet. Is everything ok?”

“Yes, actually. His fever went away, he’s playing with his brother, he’s eating dinner, and he’s doing great.”

“That’s good to hear. If it’s alright, I’d like to see him in my office tomorrow to make sure he’s fully turned the corner. If he has any problems overnight, feel free to call my answering service and either myself or one of my partners will get back to you right away. Good night.”

It ain’t that hard.



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Tjackflash

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Re: Doctor calls SWAT team on children’s parents
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2019, 02:11:56 PM »
   Granted, this situation snowballed too quick and went out of control and beyond all proportion.  All I’m saying is that by the time the story got to the cops it was about someone with extremist views who had endangered a child.
   In Arizona that’s when the SWAT get’s called and they’re ready to go in hard. I just don’t know if I wouldn’t do the same if I were them.
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Uhtceare

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Re: Doctor calls SWAT team on children’s parents
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2019, 03:41:06 PM »
The real story here is the increasing militarization of the police. In a sane world, the Doctor's call would have resulted in a polite investigation involving, at most, two policemen politely knocking on the door and asking questions. In current America, it resulted in a SWAT team. What's next? The neighbors report a loud party and the police drop a nuke on the house?

MTL76

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Re: Doctor calls SWAT team on children’s parents
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2019, 03:45:26 PM »
Another troublesome point is the massive, unchecked power wielded by the various child protective service agencies throughout the country. It’s unconscionable that they can go to a judge in the middle of the night and obtain the right to remove a family’s children from them on such a ludicrously flimsy basis. And then make the family jump through hoops to get back the children who were immorally removed. And THEN have the balls to try and cover it up.


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Tjackflash

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Re: Doctor calls SWAT team on children’s parents
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2019, 04:53:08 PM »
   To the previous two comments; Uhtceare, at what point did you think that this was a sane world?  It’s been admitted a number of times that this was a mistake, not policy.
    MLT, granted there has to be a better way but the current policy to remove children from a possibly dangerous home situation immediately is a case of the pendulum swinging too far the other way because previously children were left because of legalalities to be horribly abused for days or even weeks and in some cases even killed. 
  Again I wish we lived in a sane world. Until we do would you prefer we take a chance on moving too fast or too slow?
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AP

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Re: Doctor calls SWAT team on children’s parents
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2019, 04:57:53 PM »
   Granted, this situation snowballed too quick and went out of control and beyond all proportion.  All I’m saying is that by the time the story got to the cops it was about someone with extremist views who had endangered a child.
   In Arizona that’s when the SWAT get’s called and they’re ready to go in hard. I just don’t know if I wouldn’t do the same if I were them.

Even then, it wasn't about someone with extremist views who had endangered a child.  The doctor spinning it as such was wrong from the start.

MTL76

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Re: Doctor calls SWAT team on children’s parents
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2019, 05:41:27 PM »
I think we can adequately protect children who are truly at risk without allowing for gross abuses of power by the government. The first step towards that is accountability for the people who created this situation: the doctor who exaggerated the severity of this situation and clearly overstepped his professional bounds, and the staff at the child protective services who ordered that the children be removed. Of course, this will never happen. I understand that once the court order to remove the children was obtained, the cops were in a bind.


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Tjackflash

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Re: Doctor calls SWAT team on children’s parents
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2019, 07:10:10 PM »
  MTL, I agree with you that something has to be done, but what? 
  Fear of a retribution lawsuit or other legal consequences keeps incidents from being reported now. A Teacher or Doctor has to feel free to report anything they think suspicious. The conciquences of being too late are just too high.
  If anything the budgets for CPS inspectors must be increased to hire and solidly train enough people so that any report can be investigated immediatly instead of the horrible backlog of cases that were the unfortunate norm before the new “direct to the police” situation.
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MTL76

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Re: Doctor calls SWAT team on children’s parents
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2019, 08:25:39 PM »
I understand a physician sometimes needs to reports dangerous parental behavior to the appropriate agency. I'm not trying to take that away. But it's a big deal and not something you do lightly because if you're wrong either way, the consequences are enormous. In this SPECIFIC case (assuming the contents of the article are correct), the physician was negligent. Not because he made the wrong call, but because his wrong call was not justified given the information. Children with meningitis are SICK. This child's description does not match what someone with meningitis looks or acts like. His negligence led to a dangerous situation and a very traumatic experience for his patient's family. He exercised poor judgement. I'd like to see him explain his thought process to a panel of his peers. It's OK to be wrong; but you need to justify WHY you were wrong. I doubt he'd be able to.




« Last Edit: March 28, 2019, 08:31:53 PM by MTL76 »


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