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The Green New Deal

ProjectCornDog

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Re: The Green New Deal
« Reply #30 on: March 31, 2019, 09:39:04 AM »
I just dont understand in an era where it's hard to pass anything, why she make a bill that would conflate income inequality issues with climate change and pollution.

MTL76

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Re: The Green New Deal
« Reply #31 on: March 31, 2019, 09:50:42 AM »
Because she’s an ideologue, not an intellect.


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Imperial

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Re: The Green New Deal
« Reply #32 on: March 31, 2019, 12:55:16 PM »
I just dont understand in an era where it's hard to pass anything, why she make a bill that would conflate income inequality issues with climate change and pollution.

This is basically my biggest complaint about it. In this era, I generally like a strategy of starting discussion boldly and trying to drag the window on it toward you. I'm sure even she knows the proposals are not just going to be widely accepted straight up. But throwing or connecting things that can be portrayed as identity politics or not central issues into a proposal can tend to muddy waters. It's not always a good idea, and imo this is one of those cases.

However I think her and others gaining experience, smoothing out their approaches, and hopefully gaining more seats is a way forward. Trying to reason with Fox News / a Republican Party that sells lines about scientists working together in a worldwide secret climate conspiracy is not. Neither is expecting the Steney Hoyer or Kyrsten "I don't really even support net neutrality, but I want you to think I do" Sinema types to push matters.         
« Last Edit: March 31, 2019, 01:11:36 PM by Imperial »
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XerxesTWD

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Re: The Green New Deal
« Reply #33 on: March 31, 2019, 09:51:20 PM »
He’s not wrong. They’re also extremely inefficient.


In 2018, Scotland became the only country in the world to rely on wind turbines to generate 100% of its electrical needs.

Damn I did not know that. That’s very impressive. But it’s a feat that is probably only repeatable in a few nations/regions.
You know power can be generated on one location and sold to another, right?

XerxesTWD

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Re: The Green New Deal
« Reply #34 on: March 31, 2019, 09:53:53 PM »
I just dont understand in an era where it's hard to pass anything, why she make a bill that would conflate income inequality issues with climate change and pollution.
Because they're intrinsically bound at multiple levels? I'm genuinely surprised you would reach this conclusion.

Even the military has considered climate change one of the largest, if not THE largest threat to US global power for several years. That's one of the reasons Mattis resigned. Trump legitimately believes it's a hoax to enrich China.

MTL76

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Re: The Green New Deal
« Reply #35 on: March 31, 2019, 10:08:56 PM »
He’s not wrong. They’re also extremely inefficient.


In 2018, Scotland became the only country in the world to rely on wind turbines to generate 100% of its electrical needs.

Damn I did not know that. That’s very impressive. But it’s a feat that is probably only repeatable in a few nations/regions.
You know power can be generated on one location and sold to another, right?

I do, and I’m guessing you knew that, so I’m not sure why you’re asking.

I’m referring to inefficiency like this:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.adamsmith.org/news/press-release-wind-farms-generate-below-20-of-their-supposed-output-for-20-weeks-a-year-a-new-report-finds%3fformat=amp

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.spectator.co.uk/2017/05/wind-turbines-are-neither-clean-nor-green-and-they-provide-zero-global-energy/amp/
« Last Edit: March 31, 2019, 10:17:11 PM by MTL76 »


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XerxesTWD

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Re: The Green New Deal
« Reply #36 on: March 31, 2019, 11:05:01 PM »
He’s not wrong. They’re also extremely inefficient.


In 2018, Scotland became the only country in the world to rely on wind turbines to generate 100% of its electrical needs.

Damn I did not know that. That’s very impressive. But it’s a feat that is probably only repeatable in a few nations/regions.
You know power can be generated on one location and sold to another, right?

I do, and I’m guessing you knew that, so I’m not sure why you’re asking.

I’m referring to inefficiency like this:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.adamsmith.org/news/press-release-wind-farms-generate-below-20-of-their-supposed-output-for-20-weeks-a-year-a-new-report-finds%3fformat=amp

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.spectator.co.uk/2017/05/wind-turbines-are-neither-clean-nor-green-and-they-provide-zero-global-energy/amp/
It's hilarious that you're citing Adam Smith Institute saying it's not possible in 2014, considering that's a Scottish think-tank. Time refuted their assertions pretty decisively, especially in Scotland. Remember 2018?

And that second link? You need to read these sources and not just the headline. The author, Matt Ridley, is famously pessimistic and loves to distort information. He's also a proud climate change skeptic, but his views have been refuted multiple times by multiple different scientists. He's wrong. A LOT.

ProjectCornDog

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Re: The Green New Deal
« Reply #37 on: March 31, 2019, 11:23:21 PM »
I just dont understand in an era where it's hard to pass anything, why she make a bill that would conflate income inequality issues with climate change and pollution.
Because they're intrinsically bound at multiple levels? I'm genuinely surprised you would reach this conclusion.

Even the military has considered climate change one of the largest, if not THE largest threat to US global power for several years. That's one of the reasons Mattis resigned. Trump legitimately believes it's a hoax to enrich China.

What does that have to do with conflating income inequality and climate change though?

XerxesTWD

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Re: The Green New Deal
« Reply #38 on: March 31, 2019, 11:27:35 PM »
I just dont understand in an era where it's hard to pass anything, why she make a bill that would conflate income inequality issues with climate change and pollution.
Because they're intrinsically bound at multiple levels? I'm genuinely surprised you would reach this conclusion.

Even the military has considered climate change one of the largest, if not THE largest threat to US global power for several years. That's one of the reasons Mattis resigned. Trump legitimately believes it's a hoax to enrich China.

What does that have to do with conflating income inequality and climate change though?
How much do you know about climate change and income inequality? Do you need a massive walkthrough and assigned reading? I can get you that stuff, but this is all readily available material.

Even Trump's admin flat out said in their report back in November 2018 that climate change will affect low income citizens disproportionately higher; rural and urban.


Naturally, he tried to bury the findings.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2019, 11:29:42 PM by XerxesTWD »

XerxesTWD

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Re: The Green New Deal
« Reply #39 on: April 01, 2019, 12:42:27 AM »
Rereading that post, it came off more abrasive than intended. Like I said before, I'm genuinely surprised by your conclusion. I'm not sure what information you actually need me to provide.

ProjectCornDog

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Re: The Green New Deal
« Reply #40 on: April 01, 2019, 12:50:05 AM »
Sure, but tackling the income inequality aspects isn't as a preventive measure. She is doing it to fix the problems caused by the system of today, one whose economic inequality issues isn't because of climate change.

XerxesTWD

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Re: The Green New Deal
« Reply #41 on: April 01, 2019, 09:35:38 AM »
Sure, but tackling the income inequality aspects isn't as a preventive measure. She is doing it to fix the problems caused by the system of today, one whose economic inequality issues isn't because of climate change.
Now it looks like you're talking about something else entirely. Please elaborate.

nu-safado

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Re: The Green New Deal
« Reply #42 on: April 01, 2019, 11:11:46 AM »
xerxes - are you referring to the poor in the US suffering more from climate change or poorer nations?

XerxesTWD

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Re: The Green New Deal
« Reply #43 on: April 01, 2019, 11:42:54 AM »
xerxes - are you referring to the poor in the US suffering more from climate change or poorer nations?
Both. Climate change and pollution both disproportionately affect lower income people, regardless of national borders.

nu-safado

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Re: The Green New Deal
« Reply #44 on: April 01, 2019, 11:51:28 PM »
Fair enough

To be fair I think climate change will affect the entire US but won't affect the underlying geopolitical hierarchies, or at least the US position in it, in it - worldwide.

It's going to be devastating though