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Apokolips Getting a #metoo movement

-K-M-

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Re: Apokolips Getting a #metoo movement
« Reply #45 on: February 08, 2019, 01:04:13 PM »
Full page of the competition

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Special tutoring scene

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« Last Edit: February 08, 2019, 01:06:08 PM by -K-M- »

shadowknight

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Re: Apokolips Getting a #metoo movement
« Reply #46 on: February 13, 2019, 11:08:31 AM »
The whole comic was garbage on too many point to count. Basically it was SJW poster child propaganda never mind it was totally out of character, never mind Akopolis would never dress their women in Earth fashion, never mind neither DS nor his elites  has ever been depicted as chauvinist or that much into sex. If DS or his elites lust after anything is power first and foremost. The writer is a hack whose  more interested in a narrative than telling a good story. Don't get me wrong :a metoo movement:  could be done in Akopolis but not in such a hamfisted way, who yells amateur writer on board it's similar to something written by 7th grade  J.H.S student.

-K-M-

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Re: Apokolips Getting a #metoo movement
« Reply #47 on: February 13, 2019, 12:37:23 PM »
100% agree.

+ 1 applaud

Rufio

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Re: Apokolips Getting a #metoo movement
« Reply #48 on: February 25, 2019, 10:07:16 AM »
Total garbage idea and completely out of character. A large part of Darkseid’s character is having a code of honor despite his horrific goals. He’s evil on a grand scale for ideological reasons, but still has a sense of nobility and honor.

This makes as much sense as turning Dr. Doom into a pedophile.

The beauty contest thing makes me think this is supposed to be a metaphor of some sort for Donald Trump.

Rape is usually more about power and control than the booty.

That actually seems to be an ideologically constructed myth that originated in the 1970s. ...  At least judging by the evidence Steven Pinker compiled in The Blank Slate (the book could be wrong, but I haven’t seen any convincing counter to it).

That theory is inconsistent with the fact that chemical castration tends to destroy the recidivism rate of rapists more effectively than anything else. If lust for power was the real motivation, then why do they lose interest when their sex drive is taken away?

Pinker’s statistics also tender to show that rape increases or decreases along with other violent crimes like murder and theft. All of those crimes are disproportionately committed by young males who are not very successful and/or have low impulse control.

Darkseid is the opposite of that. A core piece of his character is not being impulsive. And he isn’t like Genghis Khan; he isn’t going around conquering places to steal their money and fulfill his sex drive.

TL:DR - this is garbage writing.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2019, 10:12:33 AM by Rufio »

Uhtceare

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Re: Apokolips Getting a #metoo movement
« Reply #49 on: February 26, 2019, 06:38:46 PM »
 Darkseid was originally intended to be essentially a cosmic version of O'Brien from 1984: a fanatic for turning society into a machine, cold, sterile, and controlled in every respect. He's rooted in how people of that era viewed totalitarian regimes. A view that ironically took most of those regimes propaganda at face-value. Those regimes portrayed themselves as rigid, efficient enforcers of a certain political view, essentially political versions of the Inquisition. They pretended to be fanatics of a true, genuine moral code, but otherwise embraced their image as The Iquisition 2.0. The democratic world rejected their morality, but otherwise accepted their claims at face-value.

These days we know that totalitarian regime propaganda is a load of shit. Totalitarian regimes are incredibly corrupt and hypocritical. No matter what they pretend to be, they are invariably actually kleptocracies, with a small group living lives of luxury and hedonism by robbing the majority. And their regimes are incredibly sloppy and inefficient as a result, with the sole exception of stamping out any threat to their power. Essentially, they are a bunch of "Goodfellas" types.

 I think this may be, in part, an attempt to modernize Darkseid with what we know about modern dictatorships. The idea that he would be a Satanic Inquisitor no longer has resonance.

Rufio

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Re: Apokolips Getting a #metoo movement
« Reply #50 on: February 27, 2019, 12:08:55 AM »
Darkseid was originally intended to be essentially a cosmic version of O'Brien from 1984: a fanatic for turning society into a machine, cold, sterile, and controlled in every respect. He's rooted in how people of that era viewed totalitarian regimes. A view that ironically took most of those regimes propaganda at face-value. Those regimes portrayed themselves as rigid, efficient enforcers of a certain political view, essentially political versions of the Inquisition. They pretended to be fanatics of a true, genuine moral code, but otherwise embraced their image as The Iquisition 2.0. The democratic world rejected their morality, but otherwise accepted their claims at face-value.

These days we know that totalitarian regime propaganda is a load of shit. Totalitarian regimes are incredibly corrupt and hypocritical. No matter what they pretend to be, they are invariably actually kleptocracies, with a small group living lives of luxury and hedonism by robbing the majority. And their regimes are incredibly sloppy and inefficient as a result, with the sole exception of stamping out any threat to their power. Essentially, they are a bunch of "Goodfellas" types.

 I think this may be, in part, an attempt to modernize Darkseid with what we know about modern dictatorships. The idea that he would be a Satanic Inquisitor no longer has resonance.

Your post is well thought out and displays good knowledge of literature and history. However, I think your analysis is wrong for a few reasons.

First, there's no indication in the comic that the writer had any of these deep thoughts in mind. The writing is simple and stupid, not profound. The only hint of meta-textual meaning is the beauty contest, which implies that the writer is going for a mindnumbingly shallow, cheap reference to Donald Trump. Not 1984. Not the Spanish Inquisition. Just Trump.

Second, I disagree with the idea that no dictators are true believers. Just look at ISIS. Or even look at Hitler or Vladimir Lenin. Some historians have speculated that Hitler may not have had sex at all, whether consensual or forced. In fact, in history there were lot of European monarchs who believed in absolute order for ideological reasons and lot of intellectuals who supported that idea. (Lots of historians even consider a small few of those monarchs to have been good leaders, although the majority were quite terrible for the populations they ruled over).

Third, even where dictators' true inner motives are purely selfish and non-ideological, many of them would be unlikely to rape for the same reason they'd be unlikely to engage in armed robbery. Just as their dictator status gives may give them access to vast riches with no need to directly steal, for the same reason they may have access to all the sex they want with no overt need for coercion. As one example, it's been reported that Fidel Castro slept with tens of thousands of women, most of whom probably agreed to it because of his wealth and status (although they probably also would've been afraid to say "no"):

https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/fidel-castro-quotes

The dictator known to do the most raping is Genghis Khan ... And his people were reported to have been absolutely putrid to smell and look at, on account of being so poor and having such bad hygeine. Just basing this on the Hardcore History podcast,  there was apparently an instance where Khan directly mocked a woman who had described his ugly smell and appearance. After conquering the army that was protecting her, Khan repeated what she said about his disgusting physical attributes and asked "so why are you here?" This is consistent with the statistical evidence that rapes are disproportionately committed by men who are both violent and unattractive as mates---not by men who are inordinately obsessed with power:

https://difficultrun.nathanielgivens.com/2014/09/03/the-myth-that-rape-is-about-power/

"The original source of the idea that sexual assault is about violence and power instead of sex or lust doesn’t come from a scientist or an academic study.It comes from a feminist writer named Susan Brownmiller who invented the theory pretty much from scratch for her 1975 book Against Our Will: Men, Women, and Rape.

According to Brownmiller, rape is “a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear.” ... In a sane world, Brownmiller’s theory would have been very short lived. This is because an actual scientist stepped in with a direct rebuttal just four years later, in 1979.

The book was called The Evolution of Human Sexuality and it was written by the anthropologist Donald Symons. It is no coincidence that Symons wrote from a scientific rather than a political perspective, and his book was widely heralded by some of the greatest social scientists of the 20th century, including Richard Posner, Paul R. Ehrlich, and Steven Pinker. Symons’ thesis was very simple and aligned with common sense: he saw rape as being primarily about the satisfaction of sexual lust. In particular, he used evidence to document that:

Victims, as a class, were most likely to be young physically attractive women (as opposed to older, more successful career women). On the other hand, convicted rapists were disproportionately young disadvantaged men whose low social status made them undesirable as dating partners, or husbands. (Summary from Psychology Today)."


(EDIT: This article’s author is a data scientist who is also involved in “theology” and “gospel studies.” I don’t know or endorse his views on any of that; the article is just the top Google result I saw that accurately summarizes data I previously read in a chapter of Pinker’s book).

Fourth, even if your theory were correct, it would still kill the entertainment value of a character like Darkseid or Dr. Doom or Thanos. The nuance, including the code of honor, is what makes them entertaining. If you want pure shock value, right down to taboo sex crimes, use a character like Carnage or post-Crisis Mongul.

In Kirby's "Even Gods Must Die," Darkseid allowed his henchman to attack Orion rather than doing so himself because the fatal shots were "not a father's work." Again in Simonson's Orion run, when it appeared that Orion died, Darkseid ordered that all of Apokolips stand aside and let the cornered New Genesis soldiers go home, unharmed. He explained that there would be no more bloodshed that day. In Ostrander's Martian Manhunter run, Darkseid explained that his primary motivation is ordering the chaos of existence. He abhors chaos, but ordering it requires a single, unified will--his own.

Moments like these are what make  the character interesting. Turning him into an allegorical Harvey Weinstein is like turning him into a common armed robber. This is just indefensible garbage writing by a moron. No points are awarded, and may god have mercy on the writer's soul.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2019, 09:27:13 AM by Rufio »

Dalek

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Re: Apokolips Getting a #metoo movement
« Reply #51 on: February 27, 2019, 12:34:32 AM »
To add to the points already made the final passages of 1984 following O"Brien achieving victory are seen as some of the most ominous and haunting in fiction. The idea of a cosmic force of tyranny reducing even gods to the helplessly broken state of worship that we saw at the end of 1984 is just a strong concept and works perfectly for the ultimate big bad of a universe full of heroic icons and legacies.

Darkseid as a believer in his own ideology just works better. He sees himself as the New God born into a realm of disgusting chaos and being tortured by freedoms they are not qualified to possess. Step by step he works to put the universe in order. From the mightiest gods of New Genesis to the smallest of sparrows all things will be made part of his grand design.

I always wanted to see more interaction between Darkseid and Nabu since Darkseid essentially embodies the worst aspects of order while New Genesis is about the chaos of individuality.

Rufio

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Re: Apokolips Getting a #metoo movement
« Reply #52 on: March 17, 2019, 09:10:38 PM »
... So the title of the story in issue 2 is ... wait for it ... “Nasty Woman.” Seriously.

I was right. This “writer” (I use that term loosely) is using Darkseid, a villain defined by calmness and singleminded clarity of purpose, as a vessel for dimwitted commentary about Donald Trump, the least calm and most impulsive elected federal official in modern history.

For anyone who doesn’t think this faddish ideology is hurting mainstream comics, this is yet another example. Stories like this are going to age about as well as oversized 1990s style pockets.

HalloweenJack

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Re: Apokolips Getting a #metoo movement
« Reply #53 on: March 18, 2019, 05:38:23 PM »
reading it ATM


yeaaaah this is pretty bad. Really hamfisted and amateurish. The whole "He touches me and does things to me" and Barda is all "I don't believe you!"

And is it me or is Willik supposed to resemble Trump?


hold that thought....yeaaaaaah I got to that page where he calls a nasty woman and it's pretty clear.

and it makes Darkseid look stupid when he's all "I believe him" with regards to Willik



and that last few pages....that was like an issue's worth of story crammed into that little space




This is dreck. I mean you can make a story out of issues in society . but this is bad

MTL76

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Re: Apokolips Getting a #metoo movement
« Reply #54 on: March 18, 2019, 08:28:25 PM »
Comicsgate BEEN told you.


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HalloweenJack

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Re: Apokolips Getting a #metoo movement
« Reply #55 on: March 18, 2019, 09:03:29 PM »
que?

MTL76

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Re: Apokolips Getting a #metoo movement
« Reply #56 on: March 27, 2019, 11:37:26 PM »
que?

This kind of thing is like a juicy steak to Comicsgate personalities and their fans/supporters because it justifies their criticisms. I am sure Diversity&Comics had a field day with this.


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NeoGreenLantern

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Re: Apokolips Getting a #metoo movement
« Reply #57 on: March 27, 2019, 11:41:37 PM »
I'm actually surprised EVS didn't have a video about it.. the guess he got too distracted by cutting the heads off star wars figures, saying Captain Marvel will fail, and tricking his fans into sending him more money he missed out on something he could legitimately criticize.

MTL76

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Re: Apokolips Getting a #metoo movement
« Reply #58 on: March 27, 2019, 11:44:36 PM »
I haven’t checked in with these channels in quite a while but can’t belive it either... it was a slam dunk.


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HalloweenJack

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Re: Apokolips Getting a #metoo movement
« Reply #59 on: April 03, 2019, 03:49:17 PM »
issue 3 was probably the best one they've done, but it still feels like two parts of a story squished into one issue.