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Who wins the Democrat primary?

Panthergod

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Re: Who wins the Democrat primary?
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2019, 02:41:21 PM »
If you think Trump won't be able to hard to beat he already beat you.

Panthergod

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Re: Who wins the Democrat primary?
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2019, 02:43:31 PM »
Harris is a Charlatan with YUGE baggage and leverage over her head and Beta I mean Beto is tailor made to be a joke for Trump. Couldn't even win in his home state.

This is hilarious, the neoliberal preening.

Uhtceare

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Re: Who wins the Democrat primary?
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2019, 02:43:50 PM »

If I had to pick, I’d go Kamala Harris and Beto. Harris already has the catphrase, the message, the history, she's a woman. And with Beto you get charisma, a name everyone knows, and you have a real, real good chance at flipping sunbelt states, even Texas.

Bleh! That choice would be as bad as soggy old bread. They are both a couple of establishment corporate neoliberals only trivially different from moderate Repubs like Kasich. Why on earth would you pick Hillary 2.0?

NeoGreenLantern

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Re: Who wins the Democrat primary?
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2019, 05:33:44 PM »
I'll bite. How is Beto an establishment corporate neolib?

Thanos6

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Re: Who wins the Democrat primary?
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2019, 11:14:30 PM »
I think Biden's window just might be closed, period. Both of his previous Presidential campaigns were terribly unsuccessful and he doesn't seem to be embracing a new direction. All he really has now is " I'm Obama's guy. "

Corporate Dems have a weird habit of thinking people tangibly connected to past presidents will be instantly popular.  We saw this with Gore, Hillary, and now Biden.

See, I think Gore would have won indisputably in 2000 if he had leaned on Clinton more. That's something I read in a few post-mortems, that he was worried that Clinton's scandals would reflect badly on him and so tried to keep Bill at arm's length for most of the campaign. He didn't realize that, by and large, most of the undecideds tended to like Clinton, and that the people for whom the scandals were a huge deal probably wouldn't have voted for him anyway.

The establishment learned that lesson after Gore, but now they're clinging TOO hard to it and making exactly the opposite mistake.
Truten forever!

Imperial

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Re: Who wins the Democrat primary?
« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2019, 02:28:41 AM »
It's not so much that beating Trump is hard, it's that we shouldn't take it for granted as an easy task.  He wins when people underestimate him.  Throwing another Hillary up on stage and expecting a different outcome will result in a second term for the guy unless he gets impeached.  We need someone people actually like and their campaign needs to be more than platitudes.  People want medicare for all, they want an end to wars, they want a healthy middle class. If someone comes to the people with these promises, then they can win.

Exactly

If you truly support things like this, you can win. It's time to accept that Hillary's defeat closed the book on an era. There is no need to hide from proposals that in many cases even a majority of Republicans support.

Just about the worst thing a potential Dem can do is listen to cable news and their ilk. Those people are out of touch puppets serving the dark moneyed elite.
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Whiskeyclone

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Re: Who wins the Democrat primary?
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2019, 01:24:21 PM »
I'll bite. How is Beto an establishment corporate neolib?

There was all that stuff a few weeks ago about how he's voted against the party more than almost any Dem in Congress and takes money from fossil fuel industries, right? I didn't get all the way into it because I know it'll just come up again later if he winds up running, but it definitely made me pump the brakes of my previously-building enthusiasm for him. He talks a good talk, though, no denying that.

therock

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Re: Who wins the Democrat primary?
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2019, 02:56:09 PM »
have a feeling Biden, Bernie or Tulsa.

Bernie might not run.  So going with tulsa. People keeping thinking Biden only wins if DNC mess with it. But he could simply win straight up. Lot of things going for him that will help him win and why he popular among the democratic primary. Could change though

1) has the minority vote pretty well unless somewhat change
2) has the obama colaition. Obama will come out a back him hard. And like it or not he is popular in the dems. He wont stay out of it
3) media seem to like him
4) harder to paint as an EVIL hell beast
5) Does well with moderate Dems..which agian it is a democratic primary
6) Can dig into the Rural white vote
7) Doent seem to have any big scandals. People floating out the his daughter didnt want a kiss on her cheek ...so I guess that means he RAPING his daughter.  That shit may work with the maga crowd but not sure that wont backfried if anyone tries in the primary
8)  Does better in the polls against trump. So can point to that
9) has a symphatetic story
10) Actully good on the stump
11) The progressive may split each other votes
12) Doesn't have decade of oppostion reseach agaisnt them

And that before the DNC may try to back him

What will hurt him is he a Gaffe machine. With his wierd as massages. Can half expect him say "Tulsa is great...we drove together and it wasn't on a carpet or anything" Also while the bernie wing may split each other votes...so can the moderate ring. Booker and Harris may get the miniority vote as well taking away Biden advantages. Also he pissed out a lot of young voters with his comments.  And his not EVER billonare evil..while true..kind of saying Hitler had some good ideas like sociol programs. Why True...why bring it up. And who will probally lose those oh so democratic Caucus states.


Who I want to win. Bernie, Tulsa, Warren. Leaning toward Tulsa depsite some questionble

To me Tulsa has foreign affair back round, young, looks serious and has some good policy. Can good women voters, and dont seem to piss off male votes as much as say Hillary or Warren. Either less likely to have an or bust movement agianst them.

Cause Can see staying home because say Hillary a lesser of two evils or saying she just a republican with tits

But if you say that that with tulsa, or Warren...Think your stretching it
« Last Edit: January 24, 2019, 02:58:23 PM by therock »

Imperial

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Re: Who wins the Democrat primary?
« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2019, 04:55:59 PM »
Biden can win because the media and DNC will play down his support for abhorrent policies and because the folksy emptyness that bought America Reagan and Clinton is not dead yet. Even if it is weakening.

Another reason to mistrust Joe Biden


https://www.salon.com/2015/10/21/joe_bidens_greatest_betrayal_the_one_senate_vote_that_makes_it_hard_to_support_a_biden_run/

As a Senator in Delaware, Biden shepherded to passage a law that decimated bankruptcy protection for milllions

On several occasions throughout the past 15 years, the colossally powerful banking lobby unsuccessfully pushed for new legislation to tighten the rules pertaining to who can file for bankruptcy protection, and how much protection they'll receive.
The first time in recent memory occurred in 2000, when then-President Clinton pocket-vetoed bankruptcy reform legislation at the request of First Lady Hillary Clinton, who had been convinced to do so by a little known Harvard professor and vocal reformer named Elizabeth Warren. Joe Biden, on the other hand, voted for the bill. Another bill in 2001 failed to pass with Biden's vote. But the 2001 bill was resurrected after George W. Bush's second inauguration.

In light of what occurred in its wake, this law is easily one of the most disgraceful aspects of the Bush and Biden legacies. The harm it did to middle-class Americans, especially during the crushing events of the recession four years later, is immeasurable. The bill made it nearly impossible for average families to file Chapter 7 bankruptcy protection, also known as "clean slate" bankruptcies intended to discharge nearly all debts, a matter of a few years before they'd need it the most. The bill instituted an all new means test to determine whether debtors with insurmountable financial hardships earned enough income to pay back all or part of their unsecured debts, specifically credit debt. If they earned too much, a clean slate bankruptcy became impossible, and they'd be forced to file Chapter 13, which would force debtors to pay back their debt over a five-year timeline, thus legalizing neo-indentured-servitude to creditors.

Among other things, the bill also forced debtors to enroll in an "instructional course concerning personal financial management." The requirement still exists even though there's little evidence of its efficacy. Additionally, the bill made it more difficult to force creditors to stop harassing debtors for repayment after bankruptcy protection had been filed. As if all of this wasn't bad enough, the Biden-supported legislation prioritized credit card debt repayment over child support repayment, forcing women who are owed back support to negotiate with credit card companies over the debts owed by their exes. Furthermore, the term "debtor" was changed by the BAPCPA to "household" so that the new means test would take into account the total earnings of an entire household, rather than one debtor -- including, for example, a teen daughter's babysitting money.

Worse yet, the bill contained nothing to crack down on abusive practices by predatory lenders, including punitive interest rates and penalties.

Unforgivably, Joe Biden was one of the leading cheerleaders of the bill.

Expecting penitence now from Biden is, of course, wishful thinking, considering his loyalty to home state of Delaware, which is the primary reason Biden supported every effort to screw middle class debtors. It turns out Delaware, specifically Wilmington, is the home base for a not insignificant number of credit card companies.
During the Reagan '80s, a spate of new state laws were implemented to lure creditors from Manhattan to Wilmington by offering attractive tax incentives as well as defanging usury laws to allow companies such as Bank of America and Chase to charge significantly more onerous interest rates.

Put another way, the Bankruptcy Bill was great Biden and his Delawarean benefactors, but a financial atrocity for millions of families, made worse by the financial crisis and crippling recession that followed. While thousands of financial institutions received billions of dollars in relief during the recession, ordinary Americans who were hammered by medical and mortgage debt, not to mention record-smashing job losses, were more or less screwed

Further Effects

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bankruptcy_Abuse_Prevention_and_Consumer_Protection_Act

Support for the act mostly came from banks, credit card companies, and other creditors.

It was widely claimed by advocates of BAPCPA that its passage would reduce losses to creditors such as credit card companies, and that those creditors would then pass on the savings to other borrowers in the form of lower interest rates. These claims turned out to be false. After BAPCPA passed, although credit card company losses decreased, prices charged to customers increased, and credit card company profits soared.


One of the primary stated purposes of the bankruptcy bill was to cut down on abusive or fraudulent uses of the bankruptcy system. As Congressman F. James Sensenbrenner Jr. (R-Wis), one of the bill's key supporters in the House, argued, "This bill will help restore responsibility and integrity to the bankruptcy system by cracking down on fraudulent, abusive, and opportunistic bankruptcy claims."[28] Opponents of the bill argued that claims of bankruptcy abuse and fraud were wildly overblown, and that the vast majority of bankruptcies were related to medical expenses and job losses. These arguments were bolstered by an in-depth study and survey of 1,771 bankruptcy cases by scholars at Harvard University, of whom 931 submitted to interviews. The study found that "about half" of bankruptcy filers in the year 2001 cited out-of-pocket medical bills in excess of $10,000 as a major contributor to bankruptcy

Perhaps the most controversial provisions of the bill was the strict means test it established to determine whether a debtor's filing under Chapter 7 of the bankruptcy code would be considered as an "abuse" and therefore subject to dismissal. This decision was previously made by a bankruptcy court judge, who would evaluate the particular circumstances that led to a bankruptcy. Critics of the means test, which is triggered if a debtor makes more than their state's median income, argued that it ignored the many causes of individual bankruptcies, including job loss, family illnesses, and predatory lending, and would force debtors seeking to challenge the test into costly litigation, driving them even further into debt.[30]

Besides the stricter means test, opponents of the bill also objected to the many other obstacles the bill creates for individuals seeking bankruptcy protection. These changes included more detailed reporting requirements, higher fees, mandated credit counseling, and the additional liability placed on bankruptcy attorneys, which critics argued would drive up attorneys' fees and decrease the number of lawyers willing to help consumers file.[3] These criticisms were partly borne out in the months following the new law, as lawyers have reported that the bankruptcy process has become significantly more arduous, forcing them to charge higher fees and take fewer clients.[31]

One criticism of the law was that the law made the discharge of liability for medical bills more difficult.[32]

A major target of the bill's opponents were provisions they described as beneficial to credit card companies. In particular, critics objected to the extension to eight years from six to the time before which debtors could liquidate their debts through bankruptcy, and requirements that those who file for multiple bankruptcies pay previous credit card debt that would have been forgiven under the old law.[26] The bill's opponents were especially critical of provisions that expanded exemptions to the discharge of credit card debt, forcing spouses owed alimony to compete more often with credit card companies and other lenders for their unpaid child support. More broadly the bill's critics argued that the legislation did nothing to curtail what they characterize as predatory practices of credit card companies, such as exorbitant interest rates, rising and often hidden fees, and targeting minors and the recently bankrupt for new cards. The bill's critics argue that these practices are themselves significant contributors to the growth of consumer bankruptcies.

Biden is Hillary with a penis. The more you know, the less you like.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2019, 07:45:58 PM by Imperial »
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NeoGreenLantern

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Re: Who wins the Democrat primary?
« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2019, 01:30:28 AM »
I'll bite. How is Beto an establishment corporate neolib?

There was all that stuff a few weeks ago about how he's voted against the party more than almost any Dem in Congress and takes money from fossil fuel industries, right? I didn't get all the way into it because I know it'll just come up again later if he winds up running, but it definitely made me pump the brakes of my previously-building enthusiasm for him. He talks a good talk, though, no denying that.

Thanks i will definitely take a look more if he decides to toss his hat in the ring.

After seeing Michael Bennett of Colorado call out Ted Cruz I'd probably vote for him if he ran. The guy seemed genuinely tired of this shit.

https://youtu.be/1LlCn-HZDuY

NeoGreenLantern

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Re: Who wins the Democrat primary?
« Reply #25 on: January 25, 2019, 01:31:36 AM »
For some reason the video starts a few minutes in. Watch it from the beginning

Propeus The Fallen

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Re: Who wins the Democrat primary?
« Reply #26 on: January 25, 2019, 09:59:48 AM »
Hey, if you had to deal with shutdowns that involved a human weasel reading Green Eggs and Ham and then over a month for a wall that won't fix anything--you'd get to the point where you've had enough.

AP

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Re: Who wins the Democrat primary?
« Reply #27 on: January 25, 2019, 10:05:42 AM »
Ted Cruz is the scumiest of scumbags.

NeoGreenLantern

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Re: Who wins the Democrat primary?
« Reply #28 on: January 25, 2019, 08:56:47 PM »
He's. Walking garbage heap. He's probably the only person I don't mind Trump making fun of.

Propeus The Fallen

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Re: Who wins the Democrat primary?
« Reply #29 on: January 26, 2019, 03:22:14 AM »
Cruz is horrible, but Mitch McConnell is worse.

Let me put it to you this way, I regained my faith in Christianity based solely on needing to believe that hell exists so he can burn there.