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Kingdom Gog vs Surtur

Gree

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Re: Kingdom Gog vs Surtur
« Reply #30 on: January 13, 2019, 12:58:59 PM »
Context Abhi, Context

Abhilegend

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Re: Kingdom Gog vs Surtur
« Reply #31 on: January 13, 2019, 01:32:23 PM »
Context Abhi, Context
What context Gree?

gokenadams

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Re: Kingdom Gog vs Surtur
« Reply #32 on: January 13, 2019, 02:22:07 PM »
Context Abhi, Context
What context Gree?
                                             So one low showing from surtur decides the battle? Tell me why we shouldn’t disregard that instance as a low end like everybody else has. Unless you wanna post more examples of mid tier to high tier beings besting surfer on occasions

Abhilegend

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Re: Kingdom Gog vs Surtur
« Reply #33 on: January 13, 2019, 02:52:41 PM »
Thor has defeated Surtur more than once copy paste bot.

gokenadams

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Re: Kingdom Gog vs Surtur
« Reply #34 on: January 13, 2019, 02:54:16 PM »
Thor has defeated Surtur more than once copy paste bot.

show it

HalloweenJack

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Re: Kingdom Gog vs Surtur
« Reply #35 on: January 13, 2019, 06:06:08 PM »
and yet Nightstar is alive after that blast so I'd imagine Surtur can survive.


You could say that about anytime Captain America gets in a fight with top tier level beings.

Going with such logical fallacies is futile.


1) Cap usually is hiding behind an unbreakable shield. They're not hiding behind anything. If they can take shots, Surtur can too.

Quote




 

It should also be noted in the scans above that that ISN'T the Phantom Stranger. That's Jonathan Kent.


No, that's Stranger. Jonathan Kent appeared at the end of issue 2.

2) No, that's pretty clearly Jonathan Kent if you read the entire issue. It's at first framed to make you think it's the Phantom Stranger. Yes, Jonathan pops up at the end of issue 2 and looks exactly the same as the figure, from the collar of the cloak on down, with Wonder Woman even thinking it was the Stranger at first. This is literary misdirection to make you think one thing only to pull the rug out and show you it was something else all along.



Quote


And yes Gog did experiment with killing Supermen different ways. For example the Kryptonite bomb thing was set up to make sure Superman SLOWLY died over the course of a thousand years, so it's not some sort of feat for Superman. That said, his staff did fail to kill Supermen at different times.


Superman survived the explosion of krypton under a red sun. How's that not a feat?

3) Because it's a death trap set up by Gog to be something intentionally painful and slow? This isn't a feat because it's the way Gog intends it to go. Also...under a red sun? We see a purplish-red starfield and perhaps a red atmospheric glow there, but I don't see a red sun anywhere. This is not Krypton exploding. It's a duplication of that event.




Quote


It should also be noted that when the two Supermen and Wonder Women overwhelmed him, which when four people tackle you (or rather just three now that I look at it again) and he didn't seem to be able to fight back until after the diamond gambit failed was several pages before Batman used the Phantom Zone Projector on him.


You mean where they blitzed him in between nanoseconds and moved him to a coal factory before he could react? Because before that he casually shrugged off all four blitzing him and swatted them away.


4) Yeah I mean that. That's called overwhelming someone. When you are taken off your feet or off guard and someone imposes their physical will upon you, that's being overwhelmed. So yeah they overwhelmed him there.

Quote


And much like Zero Hour Parallax vs Galactus, I'm not really going "whoo! Surtur!", I just want accuracy. 

Me too. Surtur isn't killing KC Superman in one blast. Forget about that.

5) if he had a staff that shot red sun energy like Gog I'd imagine he could.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2019, 06:38:19 PM by HalloweenJack »

Gree

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Re: Kingdom Gog vs Surtur
« Reply #36 on: January 13, 2019, 06:34:26 PM »
Surtur wrecks galaxies and with a lit sword is a threat to the universe

HalloweenJack

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Re: Kingdom Gog vs Surtur
« Reply #37 on: January 13, 2019, 06:39:12 PM »
I predict in one possible timeline we'll get an ellipsis and the phrase 'is that supposed to be impressive?'

Panthergod

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Re: Kingdom Gog vs Surtur
« Reply #38 on: January 13, 2019, 07:37:43 PM »
Highfather alone is well above Surtur if we're going by space cheese.

Abhilegend

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Re: Kingdom Gog vs Surtur
« Reply #39 on: January 13, 2019, 11:56:36 PM »
and yet Nightstar is alive after that blast so I'd imagine Surtur can survive.


You could say that about anytime Captain America gets in a fight with top tier level beings.

Going with such logical fallacies is futile.


Quote



1) Cap usually is hiding behind an unbreakable shield. They're not hiding behind anything. If they can take shots, Surtur can too.


Heh, that's not even true regarding to Captain America. Again Gog was killing Supermen with one attack before he got any power up or got red suns in the staff.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-d2a_J8XJ5Z4/W9_bAjmWwhI/AAAAAAAAXEM/IUBdWzbE4f4TGkhu97cEIDDUYtW_2Y5hwCHMYCw/s1600/RCO020.jpg
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-SBrjtlPo8So/W9_bAuB-VBI/AAAAAAAAXEQ/6McYaAjDYPMNuEGuxQutLjM2NIHMBHywACHMYCw/s1600/RCO021.jpg

Surtur has never shown such power.

Quote




 

It should also be noted in the scans above that that ISN'T the Phantom Stranger. That's Jonathan Kent.


No, that's Stranger. Jonathan Kent appeared at the end of issue 2.
Quote


2) No, that's pretty clearly Jonathan Kent if you read the entire issue. It's at first framed to make you think it's the Phantom Stranger. Yes, Jonathan pops up at the end of issue 2 and looks exactly the same as the figure, from the collar of the cloak on down, with Wonder Woman even thinking it was the Stranger at first. This is literary misdirection to make you think one thing only to pull the rug out and show you it was something else all along.


Stranger was working as an agent with Quintessence. But what's your point here?

Quote




Quote


And yes Gog did experiment with killing Supermen different ways. For example the Kryptonite bomb thing was set up to make sure Superman SLOWLY died over the course of a thousand years, so it's not some sort of feat for Superman. That said, his staff did fail to kill Supermen at different times.


Superman survived the explosion of krypton under a red sun. How's that not a feat?


Quote


3) Because it's a death trap set up by Gog to be something intentionally painful and slow? This isn't a feat because it's the way Gog intends it to go. Also...under a red sun? We see a purplish-red starfield and perhaps a red atmospheric glow there, but I don't see a red sun anywhere. This is not Krypton exploding. It's a duplication of that event.


Gog took Superman back to the explosion of krypton in time. Because its a death trap doesn't mean surviving a planet exploding isn't impressive when Waid isn't big on space cheese.
Quote





Quote


It should also be noted that when the two Supermen and Wonder Women overwhelmed him, which when four people tackle you (or rather just three now that I look at it again) and he didn't seem to be able to fight back until after the diamond gambit failed was several pages before Batman used the Phantom Zone Projector on him.


You mean where they blitzed him in between nanoseconds and moved him to a coal factory before he could react? Because before that he casually shrugged off all four blitzing him and swatted them away.


Quote



4) Yeah I mean that. That's called overwhelming someone. When you are taken off your feet or off guard and someone imposes their physical will upon you, that's being overwhelmed. So yeah they overwhelmed him there.


They overwhelmed him with speed, otherwise he treated them like this.



Compared to Thor making Surtur cry in pain alone.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-fr6zNj8I8-k/Vnp7iU3Y6RI/AAAAAAAAYdc/MjBii4bu5uU/s1600-Ic42/RCO019.jpg
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-U2R8UYupznw/Vnp7ilrC0nI/AAAAAAAAYdc/8fK88qTWWCI/s1600-Ic42/RCO020.jpg


Quote


And much like Zero Hour Parallax vs Galactus, I'm not really going "whoo! Surtur!", I just want accuracy. 

Me too. Surtur isn't killing KC Superman in one blast. Forget about that.
[/quote]

5) if he had a staff that shot red sun energy like Gog I'd imagine he could.
[/quote]
He was killing Supermen before having red suns in his staff.

Abhilegend

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Re: Kingdom Gog vs Surtur
« Reply #40 on: January 13, 2019, 11:58:03 PM »
Surtur wrecks galaxies and with a lit sword is a threat to the universe
It was core of a galaxy, not galaxies. Well, he never got to lit his sword, so there's that.


Edit: It was a star at the core of the galaxy
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-2AkqjGA5cas/Vnp5hHdNiTI/AAAAAAAAXzM/hWyxjC4dAGo/s1600-Ic42/RCO012.jpg
« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 02:13:19 AM by Abhilegend »

HalloweenJack

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Re: Kingdom Gog vs Surtur
« Reply #41 on: January 14, 2019, 10:31:29 AM »
Because it's getting ugly looking up there


re: 1 here: The staff has the power of red suns in it. That's why it's given as a weapon to be used against Superman. This is pretty clear in there. It's a silver bullet in effect.


re: 2- My point about Jonathan Kent is for clarification's sake. If a part of the story isn't followed correctly, then it can hurt your argument as far as your understanding of the story goes on other points.


re: 3- That's not Krypton. Gog didn't take Superman back in time to the explosion of Krypton. If you go to the top of the page the date for this day when Gog comes back in time to kill Superman is given. "July 7th, 2031. Monday". As the text goes on to tell you the bomb itself is duplicating the destruction of Krypton. Okay? We don't see a red sun. All we ever see is a starfield and an atmospheric glow. This is not a feat for how powerful Superman is. This is a specially designed method of execution to ensure Superman feels as much pain and suffering as possible for a millennia.


re: 4- My point remains. Speed + force here, shows he was overwhelmed. Yes, he can overwhelm them too. We see that alot. I would say though, this shows that he's not thousands of times more powerful than them. And yeah, Thor caused Surtur pain. You're not seeing me argue otherwise.


Re: 5- Again, I'm not certain where you're getting this. The staff's purpose as a weapon against Superman is that it's charged by red sun energy. 

fangirl101

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Re: Kingdom Gog vs Surtur
« Reply #42 on: January 14, 2019, 11:08:46 AM »
Because it's getting ugly looking up there


re: 1 here: The staff has the power of red suns in it. That's why it's given as a weapon to be used against Superman. This is pretty clear in there. It's a silver bullet in effect.


re: 2- My point about Jonathan Kent is for clarification's sake. If a part of the story isn't followed correctly, then it can hurt your argument as far as your understanding of the story goes on other points.


re: 3- That's not Krypton. Gog didn't take Superman back in time to the explosion of Krypton. If you go to the top of the page the date for this day when Gog comes back in time to kill Superman is given. "July 7th, 2031. Monday". As the text goes on to tell you the bomb itself is duplicating the destruction of Krypton. Okay? We don't see a red sun. All we ever see is a starfield and an atmospheric glow. This is not a feat for how powerful Superman is. This is a specially designed method of execution to ensure Superman feels as much pain and suffering as possible for a millennia.


re: 4- My point remains. Speed + force here, shows he was overwhelmed. Yes, he can overwhelm them too. We see that alot. I would say though, this shows that he's not thousands of times more powerful than them. And yeah, Thor caused Surtur pain. You're not seeing me argue otherwise.


Re: 5- Again, I'm not certain where you're getting this. The staff's purpose as a weapon against Superman is that it's charged by red sun energy.
Is Surtur thousands of times more powerful than Thor? Asking for clarity.

HalloweenJack

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Re: Kingdom Gog vs Surtur
« Reply #43 on: January 14, 2019, 11:10:11 AM »
No, unless you have something that states otherwise, I wouldn't say he is.

fangirl101

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Re: Kingdom Gog vs Surtur
« Reply #44 on: January 14, 2019, 11:42:35 AM »
No, unless you have something that states otherwise, I wouldn't say he is.
Going by it taking 2 standard Top tiers and 2 above standard top tiers to even just bother Gog a little, and Thor being able actually beat Surtur, I had to know. 4 top tiers who couldn't win vs 1 top tier who won makes this a non fight.