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Immortal Hulk vs Superman challenge |Feat war/relative showings

Abhilegend

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Re: Immortal Hulk vs Superman challenge |Feat war/relative showings
« Reply #30 on: October 17, 2018, 01:31:46 AM »
Hulk is not Doomsday, in fact Hulk is vastly more superior to New-52 Doomsday, so much so that when that fight happened, even the writer said Hulk would beat SuperDoom, Superman amped on Doomsday virus.

https://www.cbr.com/pak-explores-the-humanity-of-clark-kent-in-superman-doomed/

The problem with all of Rebirth is that everyone is currently nerfed, no one operates at pre-52 levels or even new-52 levels. Superman almost dies to the heat of Earths core, gets rolled over by a steamroller, gets overwhelmed by a dinosaur, he is consistently been getting his ass kicked by Rogol and that guy is at most a city buster. Superman is getting better but it's a slow process and he is still far away from his pre-52 days.

That same DD is burned to a crisp by HV.  This incarnation’s adaptation makes his hard durability questionable. 

He was burned to a crisp by HV because All Out Mode  HV can incinerate Skyfather + level beings.

Continue to cry bitter tears about that fact.

Apparently not:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-5667598
What about it? That's Rebirth Superman, not new 52.
Doomsday was getting stronger by absorbing the energy.

His durability wasn't suspect, Steel's hammer shattered on Doomsday and Doomsday defeated both Mongul and Non (Mongul was beating Diana and oneshotted Xa Du who matched Superman under Morrison).

Superman was just that powerful under Lobdell when cutting loose.


.... why would n52 mongul and non be relevant to Immortal Hulk? they dont even have feats comparable to savage, or post breach core Hulk tf

 and ripping Doomsday has nothing to do with ripping Hulk if you want to actually know the specific writer that wrote that fight as well as SuperDoom(amped version of Superman), said Hulk would beat Superman and SuperDoom https://www.cbr.com/pak-explores-the-humanity-of-clark-kent-in-superman-doomed/
Pak didn't write Superman ripping Doomsday in half, it was Scott Lobdell.

Pak being an idiot means nothing here.

Pillow Biter

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Re: Immortal Hulk vs Superman challenge |Feat war/relative showings
« Reply #31 on: October 17, 2018, 01:38:33 AM »
Pak's opinion on SuperDoom's power level is not definitive in the sense that he didn't set SuperDoom at a special power level distinct from Superman's--he's just Superman enraged. Pak doesn't get to singlehandedly decide an enarged Superman's potential power level.
He is the authority on whether the Superman he wrote, SuperDoom or otherwise, would beat the Hulk he wrote. Sure. But he's just one writer in terms of whether Superman in general can overpower the Hulk in general.
Anyways, given how dynamic the power levels of both Hulk and Superman are, it is very tough to call fights between them. You can make it easier by specifying specific portrayals of each, but unless you pick portrayals that lack dynamism, it's still a crap shoot.
I guess something like a Professor Hulk that can't get stronger vs. a portrayal of Superman under a writer who never credited Superman with much more dynamism than other big guns would be the easiest fight to rate. Crazy thing with Superman, though, is that sometimes his power levels seem to go up radically in a given issue or arc and they don't even provide a reason at all. Look at Superman King of the World. No mental blocks or sucking in more sunshine due to enervated emotions etc... Suddenly he's beating down whole groups of top tiers. Yes, he had a minor sunamp, but if you read the narration, it's pretty clear that even without the sun amp the JLA (with top tier help) felt they could only beat Superman using trickery and Green K.
I don't agree with everything Skeletor said, but he's right that Superman is a special character that is hard to bet against. Crazy shit happens with him more often than most if not all other major DC and Marvel heroes. You have to factor that in, no matter how hard that is to do.

Hulkster

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Re: Immortal Hulk vs Superman challenge |Feat war/relative showings
« Reply #32 on: October 17, 2018, 06:56:25 AM »
Hulk is not Doomsday, in fact Hulk is vastly more superior to New-52 Doomsday, so much so that when that fight happened, even the writer said Hulk would beat SuperDoom, Superman amped on Doomsday virus.

https://www.cbr.com/pak-explores-the-humanity-of-clark-kent-in-superman-doomed/

The problem with all of Rebirth is that everyone is currently nerfed, no one operates at pre-52 levels or even new-52 levels. Superman almost dies to the heat of Earths core, gets rolled over by a steamroller, gets overwhelmed by a dinosaur, he is consistently been getting his ass kicked by Rogol and that guy is at most a city buster. Superman is getting better but it's a slow process and he is still far away from his pre-52 days.

That same DD is burned to a crisp by HV.  This incarnation’s adaptation makes his hard durability questionable. 

He was burned to a crisp by HV because All Out Mode  HV can incinerate Skyfather + level beings.

Continue to cry bitter tears about that fact.

Apparently not:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-5667598
What about it? That's Rebirth Superman, not new 52.
Doomsday was getting stronger by absorbing the energy.

His durability wasn't suspect, Steel's hammer shattered on Doomsday and Doomsday defeated both Mongul and Non (Mongul was beating Diana and oneshotted Xa Du who matched Superman under Morrison).

Superman was just that powerful under Lobdell when cutting loose.


.... why would n52 mongul and non be relevant to Immortal Hulk? they dont even have feats comparable to savage, or post breach core Hulk tf

 and ripping Doomsday has nothing to do with ripping Hulk if you want to actually know the specific writer that wrote that fight as well as SuperDoom(amped version of Superman), said Hulk would beat Superman and SuperDoom https://www.cbr.com/pak-explores-the-humanity-of-clark-kent-in-superman-doomed/
Pak didn't write Superman ripping Doomsday in half, it was Scott Lobdell.

Pak being an idiot means nothing here.

The two Supermen are stated to be equals.

Abhilegend

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Re: Immortal Hulk vs Superman challenge |Feat war/relative showings
« Reply #33 on: October 17, 2018, 08:49:08 AM »
So Doomsday was stronger than his previous self because new 52 Doomsday is still canon.

Hulkster

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Re: Immortal Hulk vs Superman challenge |Feat war/relative showings
« Reply #34 on: October 17, 2018, 09:41:27 AM »
The DD from Rebirth is specifically stated to be physically equal to the original DD from DOS; just more savvy.

Panthergod

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Re: Immortal Hulk vs Superman challenge |Feat war/relative showings
« Reply #35 on: October 17, 2018, 11:44:59 AM »
The DD from Rebirth is specifically stated to be physically equal to the original DD from DOS; just more savvy.

He is H/P-DD Wars-OWAW Doomsday.

gokenadams

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Re: Immortal Hulk vs Superman challenge |Feat war/relative showings
« Reply #36 on: October 17, 2018, 11:48:46 AM »
Pak's opinion on SuperDoom's power level is not definitive in the sense that he didn't set SuperDoom at a special power level distinct from Superman's--he's just Superman enraged. Pak doesn't get to singlehandedly decide an enarged Superman's potential power level.
He is the authority on whether the Superman he wrote, SuperDoom or otherwise, would beat the Hulk he wrote. Sure. But he's just one writer in terms of whether Superman in general can overpower the Hulk in general.
Anyways, given how dynamic the power levels of both Hulk and Superman are, it is very tough to call fights between them. You can make it easier by specifying specific portrayals of each, but unless you pick portrayals that lack dynamism, it's still a crap shoot.
I guess something like a Professor Hulk that can't get stronger vs. a portrayal of Superman under a writer who never credited Superman with much more dynamism than other big guns would be the easiest fight to rate. Crazy thing with Superman, though, is that sometimes his power levels seem to go up radically in a given issue or arc and they don't even provide a reason at all. Look at Superman King of the World. No mental blocks or sucking in more sunshine due to enervated emotions etc... Suddenly he's beating down whole groups of top tiers. Yes, he had a minor sunamp, but if you read the narration, it's pretty clear that even without the sun amp the JLA (with top tier help) felt they could only beat Superman using trickery and Green K.
I don't agree with everything Skeletor said, but he's right that Superman is a special character that is hard to bet against. Crazy shit happens with him more often than most if not all other major DC and Marvel heroes. You have to factor that in, no matter how hard that is to do.


crazy shit happens to or with nearly every popular character, regardless of their power level. that doesn't mean much since we go by consistency

it's absolutely not definitive but it's an opinion that carries more weight than you, abhi's, or mines, especially since he wrote both characters. yes he does actually, as Pak is someone who wrote Superman and SuperDoom so he gets to decide whatever gets on page. yes you will find writers with different opinions, my point is post core breach hulk in general has been an absolute beast and has received a permanent amp boost to everything. so Superman besting him in combat is not very likely, he can beat him with BFR but in a brawl Hulk has a much better chance

This is completely irrelevant. all characters are special in their own right, i can bring you dozens of of examples where Hulk has done something that literally made no sense and the only explanation we got is "he is hulk, he can do what he wants" . From punching through time and space, through reality, to resisting teleportation for no reason other than he doesn't want to be teleported therefore he can't be, from reviving himself from death, to healing from being vaporized and being skeletonized, to being outright immortal, to having more energy than the sun to overpowering machines that have taken out more powerful characters than him, etc...


This is not an argument and is completely irrelevant to  either character here. bUT if you want to compare who is really special i guarantee you hulk will come out on top

Abhilegend

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Re: Immortal Hulk vs Superman challenge |Feat war/relative showings
« Reply #37 on: October 17, 2018, 01:26:06 PM »
The DD from Rebirth is specifically stated to be physically equal to the original DD from DOS; just more savvy.
No, he is stated to maybe stronger, faster and more savage than Doomsday he faced earlier

gokenadams

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Re: Immortal Hulk vs Superman challenge |Feat war/relative showings
« Reply #38 on: October 17, 2018, 03:58:38 PM »
The DD from Rebirth is specifically stated to be physically equal to the original DD from DOS; just more savvy.
No, he is stated to maybe stronger, faster and more savage than Doomsday he faced earlier

which he was since supes couldn't defeat him with brute force anymore like he did before dumb dumb

Hulkster

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Re: Immortal Hulk vs Superman challenge |Feat war/relative showings
« Reply #39 on: October 17, 2018, 10:49:02 PM »
The DD from Rebirth is specifically stated to be physically equal to the original DD from DOS; just more savvy.
No, he is stated to maybe stronger, faster and more savage than Doomsday he faced earlier

Doesn’t say “stronger”.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/1bpAZ4RZyJ5uhK0QEXSZqdGBME76jE02OcXrg09Adi999DdoAKCGBtmsWOGwpXUgzWJAB5WwIpgX=s1600

States that he is the same unrelenting force.  No more, no less.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/eDHGMJoGi_XGJNS0HqB9TmP-TIfsb-MfFwP6FXtD3rZ088CNOFuR9ZjRaxJytzySML3OuxOCNJdc=s1600







Hulkster

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Re: Immortal Hulk vs Superman challenge |Feat war/relative showings
« Reply #40 on: October 17, 2018, 10:53:57 PM »
The DD from Rebirth is specifically stated to be physically equal to the original DD from DOS; just more savvy.

He is H/P-DD Wars-OWAW Doomsday.

All of Superman’s references and comparisons compare this DD to the DD that kills him.  This DD arrives in the same burial attire that DD originally is wearing in DOS and clearly represents that portrayal.

gokenadams

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Re: Immortal Hulk vs Superman challenge |Feat war/relative showings
« Reply #41 on: October 17, 2018, 11:02:00 PM »
A casual backhand from Hulk one-shotted a guy that no-sold Gladiator's best hit and tanked several hits from Proxima Midnight. He also stayed conscious when Mjolnir hit him from Thordis. He's no-sold Storm's lightning.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11128/111284868/6646038-cannonball+casually+one+shotted+with+backhand.jpg

He's done the same to Enchantress who tanked a punch from Rogue with Wonder Man's powers (while inverted and blood-lusted) and stayed conscious while a blood-lusted Valkyrie attempted to kill her via choking.


Abhilegend

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Re: Immortal Hulk vs Superman challenge |Feat war/relative showings
« Reply #42 on: October 18, 2018, 01:21:29 AM »
The DD from Rebirth is specifically stated to be physically equal to the original DD from DOS; just more savvy.
No, he is stated to maybe stronger, faster and more savage than Doomsday he faced earlier

Doesn’t say “stronger”.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/1bpAZ4RZyJ5uhK0QEXSZqdGBME76jE02OcXrg09Adi999DdoAKCGBtmsWOGwpXUgzWJAB5WwIpgX=s1600

States that he is the same unrelenting force.  No more, no less.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/eDHGMJoGi_XGJNS0HqB9TmP-TIfsb-MfFwP6FXtD3rZ088CNOFuR9ZjRaxJytzySML3OuxOCNJdc=s1600







And he was faster, hence not the same Doomsday.

This Doomsday also regenerated from being exploded apart by kryptonite, which DOS Doomsday couldn't do. So no.

Panthergod

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Re: Immortal Hulk vs Superman challenge |Feat war/relative showings
« Reply #43 on: October 18, 2018, 10:33:39 AM »
The DD from Rebirth is specifically stated to be physically equal to the original DD from DOS; just more savvy.

He is H/P-DD Wars-OWAW Doomsday.

All of Superman’s references and comparisons compare this DD to the DD that kills him.  This DD arrives in the same burial attire that DD originally is wearing in DOS and clearly represents that portrayal.
He represent the same Doomsday that fought Superman in DoS. the last time Jurgens wrote him fighting this Superman was DD Wars. Superman's actual canon doesn't stop counting because you want to downplay his showings.

Hulkster

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Re: Immortal Hulk vs Superman challenge |Feat war/relative showings
« Reply #44 on: October 18, 2018, 05:30:19 PM »
Post DOS portrayals of DD portray him as having evolved to a tougher level.  Rebirth DD represents DD during DOS, not after.  No one is saying DOS, HP and DW are seperate entities.