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Magic is meh Vs Magic is haxx

Riv1

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Magic is meh Vs Magic is haxx
« on: October 10, 2018, 08:34:44 AM »
We’ve all seen threads where 2 evenly matched characters fight, and 1 of them also knows magic, where posters say ‘character 2 knows magic he wins’.

We’ve also seen threads where a ma miguc user’s in the mix and posters say ‘doesnt matter, w.out prep the mage isnt doing anything/will still be taken out’.

Somewhere in those 2 trains of thought there has to be some truth.

I think we can all agree w. prep, magic (like science, everyday weapons, and even just plain being a devious bastard) is dangerous.

But sans prep, what does it really do?

You have probably have some combination of flight, shields, blasts...maybe some illusion casting and or TP resistance. These are things a lot of characters can do w. non magic abilities.

Where do you stand on magic.

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AP

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Re: Magic is meh Vs Magic is haxx
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2018, 10:27:04 AM »
Magic and super science seem to both be capable of whatever the user needs to get shit done.  The difference is that super science usually involves more prep whereas magic tends to be on the fly.  So while Reed will have to go to the lab to create a whatever-machine, Strange just wiggles his fingers and casts a whatever-spell in one second.

-K-M-

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Re: Magic is meh Vs Magic is haxx
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2018, 10:52:59 AM »
Magicians are often glass cannons

beatboks

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Re: Magic is meh Vs Magic is haxx
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2018, 05:16:53 PM »
A lot of where a magic user is placed in the power spectrum depends on how their powers function. Some magic users require rituals or incantations. Constantine for example with some of his needs to do certain movements or draw a symhol like a pentogram light candles. Others like Zatanna need to say words in a certain way. Then you have the likes of the Drs Strange and Fate who simply need to visualise or think of the desired outcome. Naturally this makes them more dangerous as they can do more much quicker much easier.

I liked the way DC had it set up pre flashpoint (not surenif it still stands that way). Basically for mortals to perform magic usually required ritual or incantation so that the magic was controlled outside the body. This was because using it within could tear a mortal apart. If you had talismans you could do it through these and as such do more with less (as they were made to wield it). If you were immortal more again (hense why PS, Spec, Zor and the likes of Nabu and Mordru are so powerful.

I kiked it because it gave a framework of why some needed ritual and spells an others didnt. The others could still use spells (to perform even stronger magic than they could with visualisation) of course.

Thats why Fate could just think or point and make ankh vlasts or shields or create constructs (as we saw his wife Inza do often when she was Fate) while Zee needs to say her backwards words

Thanos6

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Re: Magic is meh Vs Magic is haxx
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2018, 05:25:41 PM »
Marvel's magic system works like this, or at least, this is how it was explained in the handbooks; like beatboks and DC, I'm not sure if this still holds.

Each mage can draw on three sources of power. The first and easiest is themselves, but that's a fairly limited resource and overuse can lead to exhaustion or worse. The second is ambient magic in their surroundings. The third is other beings, which is why they often invoke powerful entities such as Dormammu or Cyttorak; of course, there's usually a price to pay for doing so.
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beatboks

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Re: Magic is meh Vs Magic is haxx
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2018, 06:16:06 PM »
Marvel's magic system works like this, or at least, this is how it was explained in the handbooks; like beatboks and DC, I'm not sure if this still holds.

Each mage can draw on three sources of power. The first and easiest is themselves, but that's a fairly limited resource and overuse can lead to exhaustion or worse. The second is ambient magic in their surroundings. The third is other beings, which is why they often invoke powerful entities such as Dormammu or Cyttorak; of course, there's usually a price to pay for doing so.

Some of this is a consistent theme then accross both. The Mana is what DC call the ambient magical energy. This is what ritual and invocation users use. Phantom Stranger described it as chaotic and dangerous to contain. Artifact users simply funnel it through an artifact instead of themselves so they can safely use more. Another way is through a familiar as it then spreads the energy through two life forces (user and familiar) so less harmful to user. Mordru when he took on mortal form which does limit him a little bound another soul to him so that his mortal form had two life forces (thats why he could use a lot more magic than Nabu or Shat-Ru could in Kents body. PLUS Kents body had already wielded magic for decades and was slightly damaged by it).

Then theres the calling from other sources. All types have a price which Zatanna, Constantine etc have all referred to.

Dlbiininja

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Re: Magic is meh Vs Magic is haxx
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2018, 06:51:05 PM »
Marvel's magic system works like this, or at least, this is how it was explained in the handbooks; like beatboks and DC, I'm not sure if this still holds.

Each mage can draw on three sources of power. The first and easiest is themselves, but that's a fairly limited resource and overuse can lead to exhaustion or worse. The second is ambient magic in their surroundings. The third is other beings, which is why they often invoke powerful entities such as Dormammu or Cyttorak; of course, there's usually a price to pay for doing so.
   

Current Dr. Strange is an excellent example of that price to be paid. His price was hidden in his basement.   
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Pillow Biter

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Re: Magic is meh Vs Magic is haxx
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2018, 11:36:36 PM »
Magic users are typically harder to place stably in the hero hierarchy than other heroes.
They do seem to benefit from prep, similar to super scientists, more than other characters. But prep is often overrated on battleboards.

MTL76

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Re: Magic is meh Vs Magic is haxx
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2018, 06:37:38 PM »
It really depends on the character and how magic is being written. For some characters, it requires extensive prep. For others, it's akin to having a mini cosmic cube, with insta-shields, blasting, matter manipulation, invisibility, teleportation, etc. all at will.. Some characters have an unlimited well of magical power on which to draw from. Others have limitations, such as early novels Raistlin, whose health limited his ability to cast multiple spells.


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