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Is this country better of united or divided?

ProjectCornDog

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Is this country better of united or divided?
« on: September 11, 2018, 11:47:43 AM »
9/11 united the country. Politicians took advantage and implemented an unconstitutional massive surveillance stays that undermines due process, brought us to two wars that we're still in, and created a precedent for us to intervene in the middle east endlessly without congressional approval.

I'm starting to think we are better off divided and skeptical. Thoughts?

MTL76

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Re: Is this country better of united or divided?
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2018, 12:02:17 PM »
You might say that 9/11 just gave the country a superficial sense of unity, though I wonder if we’d even get that if something similar happened today.


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AP

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Re: Is this country better of united or divided?
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2018, 12:04:10 PM »
9/11 was used as an excuse to become more authoritarian: Patriot Acts, spying on citizens, Gitmo, NDAA2012, etc.  I think we're better off if there are some alternative ideas floating around.  As long as we remain civil about our differences, it's healthy.

NeoGreenLantern

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Re: Is this country better of united or divided?
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2018, 12:49:59 PM »
Divided how? Because if your suggesting we are "United" right now you couldnt be more off base. We are pretty divided right now and a lot of people who are in charge like it that way.

We are better off United. The problem is we speak so much about idealogy and not realize that most of us have all the same end goal.

For example if you were to ask the average US citizen if the end goal of health care should be the balance of affordability and quality of care they would probably agree. Then it's just about everyone coming to the table and showing the numbers.

ProjectCornDog

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Re: Is this country better of united or divided?
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2018, 12:52:40 PM »
Divided how? Because if your suggesting we are "United" right now you couldnt be more off base. We are pretty divided right now and a lot of people who are in charge like it that way.

We are better off United. The problem is we speak so much about idealogy and not realize that most of us have all the same end goal.

For example if you were to ask the average US citizen if the end goal of health care should be the balance of affordability and quality of care they would probably agree. Then it's just about everyone coming to the table and showing the numbers.

Not talking about now at all. I'm talking about post 911

therock

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Re: Is this country better of united or divided?
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2018, 02:35:10 PM »
Werent we united agaisnt a certain enemy though. Can we only unite when we have someone to hate?

Also their were a bunch of protest not to get into IRAQ at the time

ProjectCornDog

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Re: Is this country better of united or divided?
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2018, 03:56:00 PM »
Werent we united agaisnt a certain enemy though. Can we only unite when we have someone to hate?

Also their were a bunch of protest not to get into IRAQ at the time

Like who though? Guys like Phil Donahue allegedly got removed for being anti Iraq-war. Voices like Ron Paul were few and in-between and all the major political figures from both sides of the aisle supported the war.

NeoGreenLantern

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Re: Is this country better of united or divided?
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2018, 04:31:15 PM »
Divided how? Because if your suggesting we are "United" right now you couldnt be more off base. We are pretty divided right now and a lot of people who are in charge like it that way.

We are better off United. The problem is we speak so much about idealogy and not realize that most of us have all the same end goal.

For example if you were to ask the average US citizen if the end goal of health care should be the balance of affordability and quality of care they would probably agree. Then it's just about everyone coming to the table and showing the numbers.

Not talking about now at all. I'm talking about post 911

Your gonna have to give a time frame because you just said "I'm not talking about post 9/11. I'm talking about post 9/11"

When the whole patriot act kicked in there were plenty of people who weren't "United" under that idea.

ProjectCornDog

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Re: Is this country better of united or divided?
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2018, 04:41:26 PM »
Who can you think of that were mainstream that were against it off the top of your head? From Bush to McCain to Clinton to Schumer there was bilateral support for it. The final vote in the Senate was 90-9.

NeoGreenLantern

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Re: Is this country better of united or divided?
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2018, 04:44:59 PM »
Are you talking about politicians or non-politicians?

ProjectCornDog

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Re: Is this country better of united or divided?
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2018, 04:51:45 PM »
People leading the political front, doesn't have to just be just politicians but they did ride newfound public support

Dlbiininja

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Re: Is this country better of united or divided?
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2018, 06:33:00 PM »
The misperception of being more united after 9/11 is bullshit.   If you mean that it was more acceptable to claim being patriotic while being xenophobic for a majority of Americans,  while the increase in hate crimes went up targeting people who even remotely looked like they were middle eastern or possibly Muslim.   Then yes they were united on that front. 
     The other problem was that targeting a terrorist org have no clear face or specific leader vs targeting a country with absolute places to target & leaders that are easily recognizable.  And let's not forget the lie of Wmd's which lead to many ongoing issues,  lose of life, money,  the criminal acts of troops,  etc...,
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ProjectCornDog

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Re: Is this country better of united or divided?
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2018, 06:35:20 PM »
Thats an interesting take and the second time someone shares your sentiment here. Was America ever united after 9/11 as stated over and over again?

Certainly conversations not happening anywhere.

Dlbiininja

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Re: Is this country better of united or divided?
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2018, 01:44:30 AM »
 And I meant to I think the country would be better off  United! We already know three benefits of team work on a small scale.  Not on the scale of a nation truly working together.    We may have united to an extent on somethings people  agreed  upon.  Much like much of the resistance to the patriot act & other things that would potential affect one's privacy.  And we saw companies like Verizon & others which voluntarily complied & gave up people's info.   While,  somewhere crying why worry if you have nothing to hide.   It was still something that could lead to abuse & misinformation. Definitely,  the big brother  factor after 9/11. 
« Last Edit: September 12, 2018, 01:47:15 AM by Dlbiininja »
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Re: Is this country better of united or divided?
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2018, 05:43:19 AM »
From a base biological point Americans, and humans in general, are more successful and productive when they work together. Societies that think of all of their members are ones that are successful in the long run. Unfortunately America has become increasingly influenced by power players who practice divide and conqueror.

The 9/11 aftermath reaction did not really unite the nation. It was mostly fluff political marketing that further opened the door for repressive policies and destructive wars.
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