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Lindsey Graham...

LiquidSailor

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Re: Lindsey Graham...
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2018, 03:18:32 PM »
Stolen information.  Think about what you are saying.

well lot of the info was from the hack. So yea stolen.  Water gate was just them trying to steal info of some files.  Was kind of a big deal. Now info kept on computers

As for accepting money from foreign goverment. Your actully not susposed to do that during a a campaign. It actully quite illegal.  Even though during the campaign Trump tried twice.  Their rules against Foreign nationals giving to campaigns.

So collusion is ok if you pay for the information.

And as for accepting money from foreign governments, where have you been?  The Clintons have done that for years, and they are just one example.

DIGUSTING

LiquidSailor

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Re: Lindsey Graham...
« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2018, 03:20:55 PM »
I assume you are against people leaking info from inside the Trump administration, because it's stealing.

DIGUSTING

superlurker

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Re: Lindsey Graham...
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2018, 04:31:51 PM »
By that logic, wouldn't the Steele dossier, researched by a brit with sources from russian intelligence also be russian collusion?

Steele wasn't running for any elected post anywhere, and he wasn't using that info to that effect. He had been retained to find dirt on Trump at one point, which he clearly did.

By contrast, the Trump campaign was sought out by agents of the Russian government that sought to influence the election, and at minimum agreed to meet them in secret to see what they could offer.

One is normal research by an apparently competent researcher. The other is secretly receiving aid from a foreign government to influence the election. If all that took place was the meeting that's been known (and that Trump has been trying to mislead investigators about) it's not exactly a grand conspiracy, but it's still a form of collusion.

In the best case scenario for Trump, that meeting may just have been a case of them gleefully thinking they'd do politics just the way it's done on TV, like some kind of Donald Underwood. In a worse case, there may be other elements to it, like the question of Trump's financial ties to Russia, or even what's up with the  Trump Tower server business.

therock

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Re: Lindsey Graham...
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2018, 04:39:39 PM »
Stolen information.  Think about what you are saying.

well lot of the info was from the hack. So yea stolen.  Water gate was just them trying to steal info of some files.  Was kind of a big deal. Now info kept on computers

As for accepting money from foreign goverment. Your actully not susposed to do that during a a campaign. It actully quite illegal.  Even though during the campaign Trump tried twice.  Their rules against Foreign nationals giving to campaigns.

So collusion is ok if you pay for the information.

And as for accepting money from foreign governments, where have you been?  The Clintons have done that for years, and they are just one example.

paying for stolen info is different. that actullt rather illegal

Clinton got money for her charity. which she hasn't pocketed like trump did with his charity. it at the line but not illegal. now ok maybe it should be

but accepting foreign money for an election against current law. and it not like Clinton hasn't be investigated for that shit. this not opinion this is the law. collusion may be also. also saying Clinton did it too doesn't make something illegal

trump just to dumb to do it in a legal way

I assume you are against people leaking info from inside the Trump administration, because it's stealing.

actually yea said omarasa probably should be arrested in the topic I made about

also don't like people circumventing the president because that a bad precident. because the GOP won't be in power forever. don't want the same thing happening to a progressive. and these people are unelected

spoke against the leaking of trump speech with a foreign country that was leak early in his campaign in the topic I made about that

also though blame trump for hiring these guys who always leak like crazy because he created that atmosphere.  everyone seem to know that Bannon was leaking but trump kept him for so long

and the hack actually worst since it not just an insider telling the info that they know which have some protections. it's a digital break in

it a different if seth rich gave and info and if it was a hack. that why so many try to say it wasn't because that a whole different set of crimes

this is why omrasa the worst of the leaks because she snuck in a tape




LiquidSailor

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Re: Lindsey Graham...
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2018, 06:34:19 PM »
Stolen information.  Think about what you are saying.

well lot of the info was from the hack. So yea stolen.  Water gate was just them trying to steal info of some files.  Was kind of a big deal. Now info kept on computers

As for accepting money from foreign goverment. Your actully not susposed to do that during a a campaign. It actully quite illegal.  Even though during the campaign Trump tried twice.  Their rules against Foreign nationals giving to campaigns.

So collusion is ok if you pay for the information.

And as for accepting money from foreign governments, where have you been?  The Clintons have done that for years, and they are just one example.

paying for stolen info is different. that actullt rather illegal

Clinton got money for her charity. which she hasn't pocketed like trump did with his charity. it at the line but not illegal. now ok maybe it should be

but accepting foreign money for an election against current law. and it not like Clinton hasn't be investigated for that shit. this not opinion this is the law. collusion may be also. also saying Clinton did it too doesn't make something illegal

trump just to dumb to do it in a legal way 

Charities are a great way to avoid donation limits for campaigns.  Funny how the Saudis alone gave her more than 30m.  Or Citi Group giving her 10 million.  And countless other examples.  By the way, did you think all money that goes to a charity gets spent on the goals of said charity?  By law there is a minimum amount of cash that has to be used for the cause your charity champions.  The Clinton Foundation itself further confuses how much money it actually uses for charity, as it hands sums of cash to other charities.   But considering how evil the Saudis are, I'm sure all the cash they funneled into the foundation was just to atone for past misdeeds, and not because they wanted something of Clinton when she was secretary of state, or trying to become president.

So yes, it is against the law to accept foreign money into your campaign in the form of donations.  Which Clinton conveniently skirted under the guise of her charity.  So she did it.  Do we know for a fact that Trump did?  Russian banks paying off debts of his failed business ventures might very well make him indebted to them, but it is certainly no different or even the same as Clinton's doings.  But if we accept that Clinton's way of doing this should be illegal but isn't due to funneling cash through a charity, than you'd have to come to the same conclusion about Trump being bailed out by Russian banks.

I assume you are against people leaking info from inside the Trump administration, because it's stealing.
actually yea said omarasa probably should be arrested in the topic I made about

also don't like people circumventing the president because that a bad precident. because the GOP won't be in power forever. don't want the same thing happening to a progressive. and these people are unelected

spoke against the leaking of trump speech with a foreign country that was leak early in his campaign in the topic I made about that

also though blame trump for hiring these guys who always leak like crazy because he created that atmosphere.  everyone seem to know that Bannon was leaking but trump kept him for so long

and the hack actually worst since it not just an insider telling the info that they know which have some protections. it's a digital break in

it a different if seth rich gave and info and if it was a hack. that why so many try to say it wasn't because that a whole different set of crimes

this is why omrasa the worst of the leaks because she snuck in a tape

DNC sure was ready to blame russia and yet wasn't willing to let the FBI take a look at their servers.  The factual information that came from that leak was just prove of what anyone with a brain already knew.  Yet the DNC and media did a good job of drumming up the red scare rather than addressing it.

Omarosa's moron ass is just out for cash, and never has good intentions beyond what benefits herself.  None of the information she provided means anything, implicates any crimes, or even matters.

The american people have the right to know the corruption of these parties.  If the Trump administration didn't want so many leaks, they probably should have taken the time to hire better people for the jobs they filled.

DIGUSTING

therock

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Re: Lindsey Graham...
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2018, 11:26:32 PM »
well again the charity  been investigated has an a+ . rating. if some of the money got in her hands hillary hands it up to the law to prove it. and they sure as fuck tried

so what she did is legal.  what trump did if he colluded is not. so is potential money laundering.  if you think it should be legal  or treated the same as hillary. that a different argument to if he did it or not

if it turn out she was fudiling money and got caught she should be arrested. but wouldn't magically make what trump did legal. Hillary can be terrible or a criminal and trump could have colluded. both could be true. if this was president Hillary she be impeach already . sh

either she didn't do anything. or unlike trump she didn't do it an obvious and dumb way . like she didn't use he charity to pay if personal debts or make a cool ass painting

actually omarasa info being pointless doesn't matter. you cant fucking secretly record shit in a classified area. next time they might get something important and show shitty security

but also shows that idea I'm cool with leaks when it against people I dislike is wrong. that shit sets a horrible prescient if you let that shit past

and yes trump shouldnt have hired ass hole who leak. there no heroes in this

Propeus The Fallen

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Re: Lindsey Graham...
« Reply #21 on: September 24, 2018, 01:56:26 AM »

Thanos6

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Re: Lindsey Graham...
« Reply #22 on: September 24, 2018, 02:06:13 AM »
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/09/23/kavanaugh-ford-lindsey-graham-837391

Again what the hell is his problem?!!

Like I said, us here in SC have been wondering that for years.
Truten forever!

Propeus The Fallen

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Re: Lindsey Graham...
« Reply #23 on: September 24, 2018, 10:06:09 AM »
Don't worry. I understand. I live in Tennessee. I know what it's like to have insane people running your state.

But...maybe, just maybe...sanity will come this fall. Probably not knowing all these idiots, but it's more hope I've had in years. :)

Rufio

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Re: Lindsey Graham...
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2018, 12:11:52 PM »
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/09/23/kavanaugh-ford-lindsey-graham-837391

Again what the hell is his problem?!!

A senator shouldn’t give an ultimate opinion before the hearing. It creates an appearance of prejudgment. However, while it’s bad form, it isn’t crazy to think that Ford’s testimony shouldn’t be a deciding factor unless it is corroborated by other witnesses.

Right now, her friend who was allegedly at the get-together where this occurred states that she’s never met Kavanaugh. Ford’s description of the number of people at the party has changed (from four people besides herself to a total of four boys and two girls), and both of her accounts contradict her psychologist’s notes (which suggest four boys were involved in the actual assault). She’s suggested that her psychologist made a mistake in writing the notes that way. Unless she waives the psychotherapist/patient privilege, we’re probably not going to hear from the psychologist.

If Ford testifies and sounds emotional and articulate, that would decrease the likelihood that she intentionally fabricated the story. But it wouldn’t necessarily decrease the likelihood of an inaccurate memory:

https://www.newyorker.com/science/maria-konnikova/idea-happened-memory-recollection

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mediaite.com/online/interview-with-memory-expert-dr-loftus-therapy-books-could-have-manipulated-kavanaugh-accusers-story/amp/

http://ww1.cpa-apc.org/Publications/Archives/CJP/2005/november/cjp-nov-05-mcnally-IR-nov.pdf

Emotionality Does Not Confirm Veracity

People suffering from PTSD who recall their traumatic experiences in the laboratory often report intense anguish and exhibit psychophysiologic activation congruent with the subjective experience (15). However, one cannot infer the veracity of a memory from the emotion that accompanies recollection—a fact sometimes forgotten by traumatologists.

For example, several years ago, when some patients were recovering “memories” of satanic ritual abuse, the intense emotion accompanying these “recollections” convinced many therapists that something truly horrific had happened to these individuals. As Bloom affirmed, “we can say with a high degree of certainty that their symptom picture is consistent only with trauma of monumental proportions” (16, p 463).

In reality, sincere belief that one has been traumatized can produce intense emotional arousal at least as great as that exhibited by PTSD patients. For example, our research group recruited individuals who reported having been abducted and traumatized by space aliens and exposed them to audiotaped scripts of their abduction trauma in the psychophysiology laboratory (17).

The typical abductee was not suffering from psyhosis, was characterized by a rich imagination, had a history of isolated sleep paralysis accompanied by hypnopompic (“upon awakening”) hallucinations of extraterrestrial intruders in the bedroom, and had undergone hypnotic memory recovery sessions in which detailed accounts of being medically and sexually probed on spaceships emerged (18,19).

Exposure to their audiotaped “false memories” of trauma provoked marked subjective distress and psychophysiologic reactivity (for example, heart rate, skin conductance, and facial electromyographic activity) (17). Strikingly, the degree of reactivity was greater than that exhibited by Vietnam veterans diagnosed with PTSD when they listened to audiotaped scripts of their war trauma (20).

Belief that one has been traumatized can result in subjective and psychophysiologic responses indistinguishable from responses of those suffering from PTSD. Accordingly, one cannot infer the veracity of a memory from the emotional responses accompanying it.


If Graham is suggesting that he wouldn’t change his vote even if Kavanaugh’s own testimony is unbelievable, or even if another witness or more evidence emerged, then that would be nuts. But if he really just meant that Ford’s testimony alone is unlikely to change his vote, it’s  not a preposterous stance. It’s just poor form to say that before the hearing begins.

I say this as someone who doesn’t want Kavanaugh on the Supreme Court. I’d much prefer Merrick Garland.

therock

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Re: Lindsey Graham...
« Reply #25 on: September 26, 2018, 01:10:35 PM »
dont see why it shouldnt be a factor since it a lifetimr appointment.  lot if high level goverment jobs go through your backround in a more detailed way then this it just not as public

their going to gey a consetvative on the bench anyway can see republicans going why pick this guy who has so much baggage

also clarence thomas was put through this for a far lesser charge

Rufio

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Re: Lindsey Graham...
« Reply #26 on: September 26, 2018, 01:23:20 PM »
dont see why it shouldnt be a factor since it a lifetimr appointment.  lot if high level goverment jobs go through your backround in a more detailed way then this it just not as public

their going to gey a consetvative on the bench anyway can see republicans going why pick this guy who has so much baggage

also clarence thomas was put through this for a far lesser charge

You phrased your first sentence as though we disagree on some point. But I don’t think there’s actually any disagreement between what you just said and what I said.

ProjectCornDog

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Re: Lindsey Graham...
« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2018, 04:37:40 PM »
I hope there's a genuine investigation.

All these women can't be ignored. But the questions cant be ignored either. For example, this new accuser...why would she return multiple times to parties where gang rapes were routinely happening? What highschool parties exist where theres a line of men waiting for their turn next with the girl in question? How does this happen without anyone saying anything except these accusers who said nothing beforehand?

I'm personally not a fan of Kavanaugh, a Bush appointee. But I also don't think allegations alone should ruin your name. This isn't Bill Cosby or Harvey Weinstein. Their accusers DID speak out, most were ignored outright (for example, the accuser who put Bill in jail went to the police a year later after the incident). One of Harvey's accusers actually volunteered to wear a wire to prove Harvey was guilty (where he incriminated himself but the corrupt DA decided not to pursue).

But of course there's the other side of this as well, what do these women coming out gain from this? If anything they subscribed to a lifetime of polarization and character attacks.

I only see an investigation as the only way to come to the bottom of this.

MTL76

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Re: Lindsey Graham...
« Reply #28 on: September 26, 2018, 06:04:39 PM »
What do they gain from it? The Left side of the media and the DNC have irresponsibly said that Kavanaugh’s appointment will lead to the overturning of Roe Vs. Wade and lead to an untold number of women dying by back alley abortions. It’s blatant fearmongering. I can easily see a woman hearing this and thinking it’s her duty to stop it. Also, Ford raised 200k by her GoFundMe.


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ProjectCornDog

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Re: Lindsey Graham...
« Reply #29 on: September 26, 2018, 06:26:16 PM »
Didn't think about it that way. And 200k!? Jaysus.