Herochat

Can the president be indited or subpoena

therock

  • ********
  • 8665
  • +45/-65
    • View Profile
Can the president be indited or subpoena
« on: September 06, 2018, 02:53:52 AM »
And should they

Since it may be coming up

NeoGreenLantern

  • ********
  • 16130
  • +90/-21
    • View Profile
Re: Can the president be indited or subpoena
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2018, 11:58:10 AM »
Yes absolutely.

AP

  • ********
  • 18194
  • +110/-55
    • View Profile

XerxesTWD

  • *****
  • 6532
  • +96/-26
  • You can't park here, buddy. Earth is closed today.
    • View Profile
Re: Can the president be indited or subpoena
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2018, 01:43:07 PM »
Without question.

ProjectCornDog

  • *******
  • 4352
  • +6/-14
    • View Profile
Re: Can the president be indited or subpoena
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2018, 02:17:30 PM »
Should they be able to be? Accountability should always be a must!

Can they be? Probably, but it cant be so straightforward otherwise Mueller would have done it already.

As far as what a Special Counsel can do? I am not the biggest fan of them to begin with. The idea that they seemingly have endless resources and can go far past the scope what they are are even investigating is constitutionally worrisome.

Aside from the Mueller situation however, there is the New York state issue which experts are beginning to agree is a bigger problem for Trump. That is at a state level so he can't really do anything about it. Do I care about the Stormy Daniels payments personally? As long as it wasn't used with campaign or tax payer money I don't care but that doesn't mean the law agrees with me.

Dlbiininja

  • ******
  • 3512
  • +112/-13212
  • Destroyer of father of socks self-esteem
    • View Profile
Re: Can the president be indited or subpoena
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2018, 05:59:45 PM »
I don't see why not.  One's job shouldn't prevent them from being arrested or indicted.  He's still a citizen of this country & thus governed by the laws of the country as well. 
My negative Karma correlates to the amount of butthurt I've caused you! 
blowmeuptom.com/   https://www.facebook.com/tomleykisshow/
http://garyanddino.com/ 

Rufio

  • ***
  • 721
  • +4/-7
    • View Profile
Re: Can the president be indited or subpoena
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2018, 04:28:38 PM »
According to Preet Bharara, there’s standard Justice Department guidance against indicting sitting presidents. Whether it can actually be done under the Constitution is another matter. I believe most legal scholars think it can be done, but there are respected jurists who disagree.

NeoGreenLantern

  • ********
  • 16130
  • +90/-21
    • View Profile
Re: Can the president be indited or subpoena
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2018, 06:46:00 PM »
Why do they disagree?

MTL76

  • ********
  • 10075
  • +1133/-119
  • "What if I know all your secrets, Your Eminence?"
    • View Profile
Re: Can the president be indited or subpoena
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2018, 07:12:02 PM »
Not sure about the legal details, but ethically, I would say yes, even given the immense powers a President has, and the latitude with which he or she can exercise them. Let's take an extreme case of a President getting his hands on a gun and blowing someone's brains out. How can he not be indited? So then, it's just a question of degrees. We can't have the President just killing people.

Though... we kind of can. Anwar al-Awlaki was an American citizen who was placed on a kill list and killed without trial during Obama's presidency. (FWIW, Trump did the same thing to his daughter as well.) Should the President be allowed to put people on a kill list, knowing they will be killed without trial?

Also, a bit of a tangential question. If it's for reasons of national security, should a President be allowed to lie under oath? This is a hypothetical question that has nothing to do with Trump. Let's assume that the President pleading the Fifth would have outcomes that are just as negative as telling the truth in this situation.





Minority Shareholder, Combine Honnete Ober Advancer Mercantiles (CHOAM)

The Create A Team / Power Set Combo Compendium

NeoGreenLantern

  • ********
  • 16130
  • +90/-21
    • View Profile
Re: Can the president be indited or subpoena
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2018, 07:31:24 PM »
Umph the disposition matrix. Yeah I think we should cut that shit out. But that's a case we're we basically created an exception for the president to get around the law. It's not really the same as saying the president gets a pass on all laws. Also its not like the president has free reign to just add any name likes his own personal death note.

Wasn't the daughter killed like 10?

MTL76

  • ********
  • 10075
  • +1133/-119
  • "What if I know all your secrets, Your Eminence?"
    • View Profile
Re: Can the president be indited or subpoena
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2018, 07:39:05 PM »
Eight years old, but I'm guessing she was collateral damage.

Idea for a fictional story: a serial killer gets a job with the CIA so he can add people that fit his victim profile to the kill list.

What do you think of my other hypothetical question (lying under oath for the good of the country)?


Minority Shareholder, Combine Honnete Ober Advancer Mercantiles (CHOAM)

The Create A Team / Power Set Combo Compendium

Rufio

  • ***
  • 721
  • +4/-7
    • View Profile
Re: Can the president be indited or subpoena
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2018, 08:34:27 PM »
Why do they disagree?

The Constitution mentions impeachment as the means of removing a president. Often times, if a legal document addresses a subject specifically, the expression of one thing (i.e, the president can be removed by impeachment) operates to exclude that which is omitted (i.e., the idea that a sitting president can be removed through other means, such as indictment).

Also, the Constitution it places the entire executive branch, including law enforcement, under the president’s purview. So the theory goes that just as a congressional staffer can’t fire a senator, the law enforcement officers and prosecutors who work under the president can’t arrest or prosecute the president.

My understanding is that just in case this is true, standing Justice Department policy is to wait until presidents leave office before attempting to indict them for any crime.

It also makes some practical sense. In theory, you want a president focusing more time on the job than on his/her pending criminal trial. I would assume that proper impeachment proceedings take much less personal time away from an executive.

There are, of course, reasonable counterarguments to all of this.


AP

  • ********
  • 18194
  • +110/-55
    • View Profile
Re: Can the president be indited or subpoena
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2018, 09:01:47 PM »
Apparently Trump's own lawyer is worried he'll get thrown in prison, although Kyle wonders if Republicans will impeach.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mN_Ez72bEsw

therock

  • ********
  • 8665
  • +45/-65
    • View Profile
Re: Can the president be indited or subpoena
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2018, 01:41:21 AM »
think they only MIGHT impeach if it a really obvious crime. I mean straight up Blantant..and rather big

Campaign crimes may not be enough..but straight up money laundering for the mob..maybe

if the dems apply enough pressure to them and keep appointing they impeach in the passed for much less.

Pillow Biter

  • ******
  • 2082
  • +5/-2
    • View Profile
Re: Can the president be indited or subpoena
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2018, 04:30:35 AM »
No. I don't think a President should be able to be subpoenaed or indicted. Separation of powers. You can't let the Judicial Branch have the power to run roughshod over the Executive.
There is a mechanism for dealing with an out of control President: Impeachment. And after removed from office, the courts can then go at him, within certain limitations.