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What has Aaron done?

NeoGreenLantern

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Re: What has Aaron done?
« Reply #210 on: September 07, 2018, 03:59:38 PM »
Another example is the backlash for the Mockingbird comic. Was it aimed more at a female market. Yeah. Was it man hating immasculating propaganda? Not in the slightest. Did it making her a Lesbian? No. Did it make her manly? Not in personality or look.


But fuck we can't have a female writer writing a female character in borderline limbo. Better trash it as feminist propaganda.

MTL76

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Re: What has Aaron done?
« Reply #211 on: September 07, 2018, 04:15:28 PM »
I would say D&C trashing the creator of the new She-Ra before watching as both calling for less female characters and less diversity both in content and content creators. Granted it's not a comic but it's in the same realm.

Is it a right out call for less diversity? No. But it sure seems like an attempt to discredit the whole thing for no real reason other than it existing.

This is inacccurate. He was criticizing the artistic depiction of the new She-Ra, something that doesn't need a viewing of an episode to be judged. He wasn't criticizing the writing, or the animation, or the pacing, etc. You can agree or disagree with that opinion, but painting it as a blanket criticism of female characters and/or creators, when he's pushed female characters and creators in the past, is reaching.

Another example is the backlash for the Mockingbird comic. Was it aimed more at a female market. Yeah. Was it man hating immasculating propaganda? Not in the slightest. Did it making her a Lesbian? No. Did it make her manly? Not in personality or look.


But fuck we can't have a female writer writing a female character in borderline limbo. Better trash it as feminist propaganda.

It wasn't aimed at a female market, unless a superhero comic with a female lead automatically means that. And it wasn't in limbo. It was a superhero adventure comic (published by the biggest superhero comic publisher, who didn't seem like they were going out of their way to bury it) with an underlying message of feminism. Again, you can agree or disagree with his criticism on whether that's a desirable thing in a superhero adventure comic, but it's also inaccurate to say he disliked the series because of the sex of the creator or the character.

It was also awful, for what it's worth. Truly awful. It's not like his criticism was limited to the feminist parts of the series.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2018, 04:24:06 PM by MTL76 »


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NeoGreenLantern

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Re: What has Aaron done?
« Reply #212 on: September 07, 2018, 04:52:20 PM »
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This is inacccurate. He was criticizing the artistic depiction of the new She-Ra, something that doesn't need a viewing of an episode to be judged. He wasn't criticizing the writing, or the animation, or the pacing, etc. You can agree or disagree with that opinion, but painting it as a blanket criticism of female characters and/or creators, when he's pushed female characters and creators in the past, is reaching.

I believe he deleted the tweet but his response was something like "boyish lesbian turns She-Ra into a boyish lesbian" and then went off about the creators secret agenda. So he went at the new showrunner simply because he didn't like the the type of woman he see new She-Ra representing. Thats the only reason I can think of a grown dude caring about She-Ra.

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It wasn't aimed at a female market, unless a superhero comic with a female lead automatically means that. And it wasn't in limbo. It was a superhero adventure comic (published by the biggest superhero comic publisher, who didn't seem like they were going out of their way to bury it) with an underlying message of feminism. Again, you can agree or disagree with his criticism on whether that's a desirable thing in a superhero adventure comic, but it's disingenuous to say he disliked the series because of the sex of the creator or the character.

It was also awful, for what it's worth. Truly awful. It's not like his criticism was limited to the feminist parts of the series.

It reminded me Buffy in some ways which is why I think it was aimed more towards women. And I mean the character was in borderline limbo. No one was really doing anything with her at the time other than Bendis and it wasn't much. I also wasn't talking about D&C but the general backlash of the comic.

Personally I thought it was OK. It was lowkey and self contained. Certainly wasn't the man hating feminist agenda comic it was made out to be. Ironically it was the backlash that got me to read it in the first place.

NeoGreenLantern

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Re: What has Aaron done?
« Reply #213 on: September 07, 2018, 07:36:49 PM »
Oh and since Trump "speaking his mind" being a sign of masculinity I bring you this.
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-elton-john-696490/

Quote
I have broken more Elton John records, he seems to have a lot of records. And I, by the way, I don’t have a musical instrument. I don’t have a guitar or an organ. No organ. Elton has an organ. And lots of other people helping. No we’ve broken a lot of records. We’ve broken virtually every record. Because you know, look I only need this space. They need much more room. For basketball, for hockey and all of the sports, they need a lot of room. We don’t need it. We have people in that space. So we break all of these records. Really we do it without like, the musical instruments. This is the only musical: the mouth. And hopefully the brain attached to the mouth. Right? The brain, more important than the mouth, is the brain. The brain is much more important.

Truly he is an Alpha with the best words.

Visitor-Q

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Re: What has Aaron done?
« Reply #214 on: September 08, 2018, 03:50:05 PM »
Don't have time to respond at the moment,

I know what that's like, super-busy at the moment myself (I was coming here to say I was going to be busy all weekend but saw only a few small posts so I may as well respond while I'm here).

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but just wanted to clear up that I'm not accusing you of making $^# up, Upper Krust. I agree with you generally on Thor, which you read, and you seem to be an honest, thoughtful guy (even though you're wrong 91.4% of the other time.  ;) )

 ;D

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I'm saying almost all of your non-Thor examples are basically secondhand recaps from people who do routinely make #^# up (or, they just have horrible reading comprehension). At this point, it's like linking to Alex Jones and trying to convince me about the multi-dimensional pedophile ring for immortal rich demons when we're talking about the election. Why continue to insist on using sources that have proven to be that batshit?

I don't think we have done a comprehensive list at this point. I may well be mis-remembering exact points I have watched a week; a month or a year ago (as noted my short term memory is not great). But many of the points I have watched (while individually irrelevant - as I have noted many times) I remember thinking at the time were valid criticisms or examples of identity politics in comics and add up to why Comicsgate exists.

So I am not saying I agree with every video made in the name of Comicsgate nor am I saying I support everything each Comicsgater says. But I do see enough valid points from the videos I watch to see growing trends in the Industry.

No Comicsgater I have watched has called for less female characters or less diversity in comics - so if that's your perception of Comicsgate (?) then its (to use your own words) 'batshit'.

From a personal standpoint I'm all for more female characters and more representative characters (preferably original ones; though I'm not exclusive on that, I loved Slott's She-Hulk). To an extent I also don't care if a character is replaced - provided the story is good and not simply an exercise in Identity Politics peddling with a Mary Sue/Gary Stu.


Given how long that sub-discussion was getting, I'm fine with resetting again, given our schedules. I feel like we hit another point where we started going down rabbit holes that weren't necessarily worth all that time and effort.

(As to CG cites on this thread, nearly all of them you hadn't read were debunked--not just specific citations like BP&Crew, Riri, etc., but even the underlying assumptions behind those citations (e.g. the fact that these long standing and common tropes pre-exist SJWs)).

As far as my perception of Comicsgate, I see it for what it is: A largely right wing outrage and conspiracy movement on the fringes of fandom, which largely originated in social media trolling, but is now trying to rewrite some of that history and paint themselves as innocent victims to monetize the brand.

There's the Vox Day wing of far right racists (joined by Chuck Dixon and Del Arroz), you have Richard Meyer who tries to be a much softer version of Vox Day with his 80's Andrew Dice Clay opinions (but sometimes lets the facade slip, e.g. the Dark Roast), and then there's Van Sciver trying to soften all the edges and mainstream the movement*.

(*He's at war with Vox Day now over monetizing the movement with a trademark, and is trying his hardest to pretend CG is anti-Vox Day for racism reasons. However, before September, while he had his problems with Vox's personality and professionalism, Van Sciver publicly rooted for him to succeed).

In that very attempt to monetize and mainstream the movement, CG has built a narrative that the industry as a whole is DYING (it's not) because of SJWs who were hired based on identity instead of experience/talent, and put too much politics in their books instead of quality.

And, yet, if you look at samples of the actual CG books being published, you've got Chuck Dixon surronded by a sea of absolutely dreadful scripting done by amateurs with almost zero writing experience (like Richard Meyer), and tons of right wing politics scattered throughtout.

Upper_Krust

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Re: What has Aaron done?
« Reply #215 on: September 08, 2018, 07:48:52 PM »
Given how long that sub-discussion was getting, I'm fine with resetting again, given our schedules. I feel like we hit another point where we started going down rabbit holes that weren't necessarily worth all that time and effort.

Agreed. Still happy to discuss stuff when I have the time, but I'll try and steer away from dissecting every minute point. ;)

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(As to CG cites on this thread, nearly all of them you hadn't read were debunked--not just specific citations like BP&Crew, Riri, etc., but even the underlying assumptions behind those citations (e.g. the fact that these long standing and common tropes pre-exist SJWs)).

As far as my perception of Comicsgate, I see it for what it is: A largely right wing outrage and conspiracy movement on the fringes of fandom, which largely originated in social media trolling, but is now trying to rewrite some of that history and paint themselves as innocent victims to monetize the brand.

Its certainly mainly (but not exclusively) Conservatives (either creators or readers) annoyed at many current comics becoming too politicized. I agree there is an element of exaggeration (for clicks) but you can't build a channel on exaggeration there has to be enough substance to it.

I think the only one trying to paint themselves as 'innocent' is D&C and even he seems to just accept he said some stupid things he won't be forgiven for and just wants to move on from it.

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There's the Vox Day wing of far right racists (joined by Chuck Dixon and Del Arroz), you have Richard Meyer who tries to be a much softer version of Vox Day with his 80's Andrew Dice Clay opinions (but sometimes lets the facade slip, e.g. the Dark Roast), and then there's Van Sciver trying to soften all the edges and mainstream the movement*.

I didn't know much about Vox Day until this past week (and had never heard him spoken about in Comicsgate circles) - he seems like an actual white supremacist (assuming the quotes others have said are from him are indeed true) and a bit of a bandwagon jumper.

I don't see how you can compare Meyer to Day; he's basically insulted a handful of people over the course of 1500+ videos (and most of the personal insulting was done in the Dark Roast).

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(*He's at war with Vox Day now over monetizing the movement with a trademark, and is trying his hardest to pretend CG is anti-Vox Day for racism reasons. However, before September, while he had his problems with Vox's personality and professionalism, Van Sciver publicly rooted for him to succeed).

It seems like Vox has given up the trademark.

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In that very attempt to monetize and mainstream the movement, CG has built a narrative that the industry as a whole is DYING (it's not) because of SJWs who were hired based on identity instead of experience/talent, and put too much politics in their books instead of quality.

The Industry is in a slight downturn and comic shops are closing too frequently for comfort and Marvel are pulling some interesting tactics to keep their market share, BUT I AGREE the death of the Industry has been largely exaggerated.

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And, yet, if you look at samples of the actual CG books being published, you've got Chuck Dixon surronded by a sea of absolutely dreadful scripting done by amateurs with almost zero writing experience (like Richard Meyer), and tons of right wing politics scattered throughtout.

AFAIK none of Meyer's books involve Right Wing Politics (they are just action stories), nor EVS's, nor the Breitweisers.

Are there books with right wing politics in them - almost certainly (especially with Vox Day as a publisher I suspect) but the only one I am personally familiar with is "Trump's Space Force" which seems openly comedic.

As regards Comicsgate writers with zero writing experience that would seem to be the hypocritical at this point.

But the market will sort all these titles out, if Comicsgate authors release poorly written books then people likely won't be back for seconds.

Upper_Krust

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Re: What has Aaron done?
« Reply #216 on: September 08, 2018, 07:55:35 PM »
Oh and since Trump "speaking his mind" being a sign of masculinity I bring you this.
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-elton-john-696490/

Quote
I have broken more Elton John records, he seems to have a lot of records. And I, by the way, I don’t have a musical instrument. I don’t have a guitar or an organ. No organ. Elton has an organ. And lots of other people helping. No we’ve broken a lot of records. We’ve broken virtually every record. Because you know, look I only need this space. They need much more room. For basketball, for hockey and all of the sports, they need a lot of room. We don’t need it. We have people in that space. So we break all of these records. Really we do it without like, the musical instruments. This is the only musical: the mouth. And hopefully the brain attached to the mouth. Right? The brain, more important than the mouth, is the brain. The brain is much more important.

Truly he is an Alpha with the best words.

LOL, Trump loves a good ramble, the rallies look like fun, I wonder what Obama would be like without a teleprompter...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wS8B1Qp5kQ

XerxesTWD

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Re: What has Aaron done?
« Reply #217 on: September 10, 2018, 02:51:09 PM »
Barack HUSSEIN Obama (that's how you know it's going to be a good source) was and still is objectively better without a teleprompter.

Visitor-Q

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Re: What has Aaron done?
« Reply #218 on: September 11, 2018, 07:44:27 PM »

Agreed. Still happy to discuss stuff when I have the time, but I'll try and steer away from dissecting every minute point. ;)

Its certainly mainly (but not exclusively) Conservatives (either creators or readers) annoyed at many current comics becoming too politicized. I agree there is an element of exaggeration (for clicks) but you can't build a channel on exaggeration there has to be enough substance to it.

I disagree. The entire history of the internet has pretty conclusively you can easily get 1 out of every 10 people in any population to believe in the most ludicrous nonsense, and paying Comicsgaters make up a fraction of 1% of all North American comics readers. There are flat earth YouTube channels that have upwards of 100K supporters.

Pretty much half of Comicsgate claims are easily disproven to be vast exaggerations at best, and the other half of their platform (politics, quality, experience) has been shown to be largely unimportant to them with alarming hypocrisy (e.g. Meyer's work getting far more support than actually competent professionals like Chuck Dixon, almost none of them having writing experience and that being pretty clear in their work, all of the right wing propaganda in their titles...)


I think the only one trying to paint themselves as 'innocent' is D&C and even he seems to just accept he said some stupid things he won't be forgiven for and just wants to move on from it.

The social media posting I've happened to catch from CGers over the last couple weeks shows otherwise, I think. They're pretty clearly in full denial and whitewashing mode about Meyer's history. They almost come off like cultists.


I didn't know much about Vox Day until this past week (and had never heard him spoken about in Comicsgate circles) - he seems like an actual white supremacist (assuming the quotes others have said are from him are indeed true) and a bit of a bandwagon jumper.

He was one of the most financially successful CG related figures before the trademark scandal, despite his obviously racist past. Van Sciver himself supported his publishing efforts despite having a problem with his brash personality and lack of experience, rooting for his success. Del Arroz and Dixon were (and still are) directly partnered with him, and all 3 still have plenty of support outside of the Van Sciver side of the business schism (they didn't have too much of a problem with Vox's racism before that, apparently).

That's a pretty ugly part of CG, and not an insignificant one.


I don't see how you can compare Meyer to Day; he's basically insulted a handful of people over the course of 1500+ videos (and most of the personal insulting was done in the Dark Roast).

Like I said, Meyer verges on being a softer, milder version of Vox's approach--see him courting that audience with his ridiculous Black Panther and the Crew claims, where he even used the equally stupid "white genocide" concept--he knew exactly where the extra clicks would come from for advocating that POV.


The Industry is in a slight downturn and comic shops are closing too frequently for comfort and Marvel are pulling some interesting tactics to keep their market share, BUT I AGREE the death of the Industry has been largely exaggerated.

But most CGers are inextricably married to that DYING narrative, including all of its leaders, no matter how much the evidence shows otherwise. It's part of the snake oil act.


AFAIK none of Meyer's books involve Right Wing Politics (they are just action stories), nor EVS's, nor the Breitweisers.

Are there books with right wing politics in them - almost certainly (especially with Vox Day as a publisher I suspect) but the only one I am personally familiar with is "Trump's Space Force" which seems openly comedic.

Take a quick look at Indiegogo; there's Trump's Space Force, a title about Q-Anon, a title where the hero takes on community organizers who want to foment chaos, and Mike Miller's patriotic superhero book starts with a scene straight out of Breitbart propaganda:

I mean, look at this horribly written (but well drawn, granted) crap:

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/lonestar-heart-of-the-hero--3#/

That MS-13 scene might as well have been written by Donald Trump himself.


As regards Comicsgate writers with zero writing experience that would seem to be the hypocritical at this point.

But the market will sort all these titles out, if Comicsgate authors release poorly written books then people likely won't be back for seconds.


That's a pretty HUGE display of the movement's hypocrisy. They've spent more than a year going nuts over their conspiracy theories about inexperienced, supposedly talentless women and minorities being hired for their identities...

...and then they make Meyer, an inexperienced and clearly untalented* man with almost no experience other than a couple of failed indie ventures and cheap YouTube videos, CG's #1 creator by volume--because of his identity as a CG leader.

And of course there're a large fraction of CGers who will continue to buy Meyer's books even if they're bad, because for them it's more about the movement itself (and the politics) than it is about quality--that's why Dixon's stuff doesn't earn as much as Meyer's.

*Have you seen his scripting samples on Indiegogo and on his Patreon? This isn't my dislike of CG talking (I can admit Chuck Dixon has talent, and Mike Miller and Van Sciver can draw really well)--Meyer is very objectively a bad writer.

Not BAMF

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Re: What has Aaron done?
« Reply #219 on: September 12, 2018, 04:08:39 PM »
Yeah, I don't like Van Sciver or Dixon as people, but Dixon has written several comics I LOVE, and Van Sciver is an objectively great artist.

Meyer is garbage talent-wise.

Upper_Krust

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Re: What has Aaron done?
« Reply #220 on: September 13, 2018, 02:01:28 PM »
I disagree. The entire history of the internet has pretty conclusively you can easily get 1 out of every 10 people in any population to believe in the most ludicrous nonsense,

I agree, just look at the Russian collusion angle perpetuated by the mainstream media.

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and paying Comicsgaters make up a fraction of 1% of all North American comics readers.


Not sure about your figures there. 10,000 backers on a trade (equivalent to one of the best selling trades that month) with zero mainstream coverage and limited availability. I'm not going to guess at the percentage but its likely more than what you are stating.

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There are flat earth YouTube channels that have upwards of 100K supporters.

The fact that David Icke is a millionaire tells it all.

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Pretty much half of Comicsgate claims are easily disproven to be vast exaggerations at best, and the other half of their platform (politics, quality, experience) has been shown to be largely unimportant to them with alarming hypocrisy


I saw this article on Comicsgate a few days ago (you may find interesting):

https://bleedingfool.com/blogs/my-comicsgate-rebuttal-to-bill-sienkiewicz-other-comic-pros/

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(e.g. Meyer's work getting far more support than actually competent professionals like Chuck Dixon, almost none of them having writing experience and that being pretty clear in their work,


Better marketing, simple.

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all of the right wing propaganda in their titles...)

Like what?

...and even IF this is the case do you see the hypocrisy of the statement?

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The social media posting I've happened to catch from CGers over the last couple weeks shows otherwise, I think. They're pretty clearly in full denial and whitewashing mode about Meyer's history. They almost come off like cultists.

I caught EVS and Joe Quesada's twitter conversation where Joe wanted EVS to condemn Meyer because he had insulted Comics Professionals but EVS pointed out none of his fellow professionals came out to condemn the people who were calling him a Nazi for a year and hounded him out of DC.

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He was one of the most financially successful CG related figures before the trademark scandal, despite his obviously racist past. Van Sciver himself supported his publishing efforts despite having a problem with his brash personality and lack of experience, rooting for his success. Del Arroz and Dixon were (and still are) directly partnered with him, and all 3 still have plenty of support outside of the Van Sciver side of the business schism (they didn't have too much of a problem with Vox's racism before that, apparently).

That's a pretty ugly part of CG, and not an insignificant one.

Well it shows how low a profile he had previously been keeping if I had never heard of him.

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Like I said, Meyer verges on being a softer, milder version of Vox's approach--see him courting that audience with his ridiculous Black Panther and the Crew claims, where he even used the equally stupid "white genocide" concept--he knew exactly where the extra clicks would come from for advocating that POV.

We covered this, its just a click bait title.

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But most CGers are inextricably married to that DYING narrative, including all of its leaders, no matter how much the evidence shows otherwise. It's part of the snake oil act.

How is advocating for putting story (in comics) ahead of politics tying yourself to a dying narrative!?

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Take a quick look at Indiegogo; there's Trump's Space Force,


Comedy title.

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a title about Q-Anon, a title where the hero takes on community organizers who want to foment chaos,

Something from the Vox Day 'stable'.

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and Mike Miller's patriotic superhero book starts with a scene straight out of Breitbart propaganda:

I'll go check it out but I don't consider a Patriotic Superhero automatically 'far right'.

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I mean, look at this horribly written (but well drawn, granted) crap:

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/lonestar-heart-of-the-hero--3#/

That MS-13 scene might as well have been written by Donald Trump himself.

For goodness sake he's punching Nazi's and Hitler on another page. You are not one of those folks who believes the only allowable villains are white nationalists are you?

Are you saying that using MS-13 (actual criminals) as villains makes the writer some sort of bigot?

...art does look cool.

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That's a pretty HUGE display of the movement's hypocrisy. They've spent more than a year going nuts over their conspiracy theories about inexperienced, supposedly talentless women and minorities being hired for their identities...

...and then they make Meyer, an inexperienced and clearly untalented* man with almost no experience other than a couple of failed indie ventures and cheap YouTube videos, CG's #1 creator by volume--because of his identity as a CG leader.

And of course there're a large fraction of CGers who will continue to buy Meyer's books even if they're bad, because for them it's more about the movement itself (and the politics) than it is about quality--

Meyer clearly has talent as a Youtuber and about 8 years dipping in and out of making comics. If his book is poor it will get bad reviews and sales for the next will drop.

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that's why Dixon's stuff doesn't earn as much as Meyer's.

It earns less because of Marketing. Meyer has his own channel for promotion. EVS has his own channel for promotion. No surprise they have the two best selling books.

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*Have you seen his scripting samples on Indiegogo and on his Patreon? This isn't my dislike of CG talking (I can admit Chuck Dixon has talent, and Mike Miller and Van Sciver can draw really well)--Meyer is very objectively a bad writer.

I saw the original issue Jawbreakers roasts on youtube - people ripped the hell out of it (very funny videos). I guess we'll see in a few months whether he has improved any since then.

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Re: What has Aaron done?
« Reply #221 on: September 14, 2018, 02:20:18 PM »
I agree, just look at the Russian collusion angle perpetuated by the mainstream media.

Well, Manafort just pleaded guilty to being a secret foreign agent of Putin's Ukrainian puppet leader, so let's agree on the general principle and disagree on your particular example. :)


Not sure about your figures there. 10,000 backers on a trade (equivalent to one of the best selling trades that month) with zero mainstream coverage and limited availability. I'm not going to guess at the percentage but its likely more than what you are stating.

The comic industry is a billion dollar business in North America, and most estimates put the buyer base in the 7-figure range--10 K Comicsgaters being 1% of all readers is actually me being generous by setting all buyers at a flat 1 million people between the direct market, the book market, digital, etc.

Even if I cut 1 million readers in half (meaning 500,000 spending an average of $2000, which is very obviously wrong), that would still make Comicsgaters a whopping...2% of all readers.

Comicsgaters have a vastly inflated sense of their importance and buying power.


I saw this article on Comicsgate a few days ago (you may find interesting):

https://bleedingfool.com/blogs/my-comicsgate-rebuttal-to-bill-sienkiewicz-other-comic-pros/


I found it pretty badly argued and very low on facts, actually, which has been a trend with every Comicsgater essay or video I waste time on.

Aside from the fact that 538 already took apart his ludicrous "comic books have ALWAYS been diverse" claim with actual statistical analysis, his dual assertions that

(1) the modern minority characters he doesn't like were created *just* to be minorities, and
(2) the past minority characters he does like weren't created for their minority status

is completely ahistorical and wrong, on both counts.

Black Panther and Falcon were specifically created for their identities as minorities to promote a liberal pro-Civil Rights message, as was John Stewart. Len Wein has repeatedly said that they replaced the all-white original X-Men with characters of all nationalities and colors specifically to promote diversity and appeal to readers of different backgrounds beyond white Americans (can you imagine how the Comicsgater community would've reacted to that news if they'd been around back then  ;D).

Etc.


Better marketing, simple.

So you're saying all it takes is marketing to turn CGers into hypocrites about their principles? Because almost anyone that follows him and CG in general should be aware that his only experience in comics were a few self-published failures over an 8 year period, and the writing samples he's released were outright horrible.



...and even IF this is the case do you see the hypocrisy of the statement?

Huh? It's the CG movement that makes a big deal of politics in comics--it's THEIR assertion.

Of course, what they really mean is they want no left wing politics and plenty of right wing politics--which is fine, but they look ridiculous trying to pretend otherwise.


I caught EVS and Joe Quesada's twitter conversation where Joe wanted EVS to condemn Meyer because he had insulted Comics Professionals but EVS pointed out none of his fellow professionals came out to condemn the people who were calling him a Nazi for a year and hounded him out of DC.

I caught that, too, and witnessed CG's (and EVS's) complete denial of things Meyer had obviously done, in almost cult-like fashion. EVS even continued spreading the lie that Mark Waid plotted to assault Meyer.

You know, Mark Waid, the out-of-shape, schlubby, 50 year old dork who's probably never thrown a punch in his adult life. This guy was obviously going to take on a much younger former Marine and trained killer--a man who actually has a rap sheet for kicking someone's ass.  ::)


Well it shows how low a profile he had previously been keeping if I had never heard of him.

Yeah, he's so low profile he made more than a quarter million crowdfunding Alt-Hero, and was the most financially successful CG creator before Meyer and Van Sciver (and is still #3).

I don't doubt that you didn't know him, but you're anecdotal experience doesn't outweigh his proven success and stature within CG circles before he stabbed everyone in the back (and he still gets plenty of support).


We covered this, its just a click bait title.


No, that was also his message in other outlets like PJMedia. Either way, I'm not sure how using white supremacist terminology against a black writer to court clicks excludes pandering to that crowd.

He knew exactly what he was doing, and doing so will of course invite those associations with CG. He's garbage.


How is advocating for putting story (in comics) ahead of politics tying yourself to a dying narrative!?


You're misreading--CG claims that the comics industry is DYING (e.g. their "dying narrative"), and that's demonstrably false.

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Take a quick look at Indiegogo; there's Trump's Space Force,


Comedy title.

Quote
a title about Q-Anon, a title where the hero takes on community organizers who want to foment chaos,

Something from the Vox Day 'stable'.

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and Mike Miller's patriotic superhero book starts with a scene straight out of Breitbart propaganda:

I'll go check it out but I don't consider a Patriotic Superhero automatically 'far right'.

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I mean, look at this horribly written (but well drawn, granted) crap:

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/lonestar-heart-of-the-hero--3#/

That MS-13 scene might as well have been written by Donald Trump himself.

For goodness sake he's punching Nazi's and Hitler on another page. You are not one of those folks who believes the only allowable villains are white nationalists are you?

Are you saying that using MS-13 (actual criminals) as villains makes the writer some sort of bigot?


No--I'm saying that when you write an MS-13 scene as if it were a Chick Tract for Donald Trump's immigration platform, you're injecting very obvious politics into your comic.




Now, please be honest: If I were to show that 1 page to random people and

(1) ask them if it's political, 

(2) tell them to guess the author's politics

...do you really think more than 2 out of 10 people couldn't guess Mike Miller supports Trump from that obvious propaganda?

C'mon, man, let's not be disingenuous.


It earns less because of Marketing. Meyer has his own channel for promotion. EVS has his own channel for promotion. No surprise they have the two best selling books.

So then why should anyone take CG seriously, since the movement is already showing blatant hypocrisy about their own principles right out of the gate? You think "marketing" excuses that? Meyer is literally the right wing version of the "purse puppy" he's so often ranted against when it comes to minority creators.

When all's said and done, the only consistency CG has shown is its antipathy to left wing politics; it's simply a political movement within the comic industry, with a history of trolling and a not-so-insignificant part of its base tied to outright racists and homophobes. 


I saw the original issue Jawbreakers roasts on youtube - people ripped the hell out of it (very funny videos). I guess we'll see in a few months whether he has improved any since then.


We don't have to--samples of Iron Sights are up.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/iron-sights-graphic-novel#/



That's legitimately substandard, embsrrassing stuff. CGers paid an average of $30+ for 100 pages of this garbage while complaining about supposed SJWs like Coates and Waid putting out far superior work.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2018, 04:36:51 PM by Visitor-Q »

MTL76

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Re: What has Aaron done?
« Reply #222 on: September 14, 2018, 06:28:31 PM »
I’ve read the Iron Sights preview (which is more than this page) and while it’s not Watchmen 2.0, it also isn’t substandard or embarrassing. It’s not deep but looks like it could be entertaining. And these aren’t supposed to be likable characters. The art isn’t amazing but it’s serviceable. Thirty bucks is too much, though... I’d think fifteen would be fair.


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Re: What has Aaron done?
« Reply #223 on: September 14, 2018, 07:00:44 PM »
I’ve read the Iron Sights preview (which is more than this page) and while it’s not Watchmen 2.0, it also isn’t substandard or embarrassing. It’s not deep but looks like it could be entertaining. And these aren’t supposed to be likable characters. The art isn’t amazing but it’s serviceable. Thirty bucks is too much, though... I’d think fifteen would be fair.

I linked to the whole preview--that wasn't even the worst page.

And, yeah, it's substandard and amateurish compared to almost all of the work Meyer has criticized for literally 100s of hours of YouTube videos. He's so lazy in his Spanish research she's saying they're having pudding for dinner. The dialogue is stilted and awkward, and reads like a crappier version of Jason Aaron's work on Scalped, except without any of the character depth. The art is D to C level at best, with some especially rough (rushed?) panels in places.

It's not the absolute worst comic I've ever read, but after criticizing so many creators for so long, and casting Comicsgate as the movement that was going to restore quality and readers to the industry, that's what he leads with?

Take this other scene--how does this gag that he wasted almost the entire page on make any sense? And CGers have the lack of shame to pay 30 bucks for this while laughably trashing writers with actual comedic chops like Matt Fraction, Gail Simone, et al?



« Last Edit: September 14, 2018, 07:02:16 PM by Visitor-Q »

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Re: What has Aaron done?
« Reply #224 on: September 14, 2018, 07:25:19 PM »
Actually, it’s down to twenty bucks, which is in the realm of reasonable.


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