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Ant-man and Wasp (spoilers) discussion

altoon

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Ant-man and Wasp (spoilers) discussion
« on: July 05, 2018, 09:34:28 PM »
Since no one else did one.  I just want to say the last 3 movies marvel has done an amazing job with the villians.  Each one you can see there side of the situation and understand why there doing what there doing and it not just a hahahah I'm evil and want to rule type of thing.

Master

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Re: Ant-man and Wasp (spoilers) discussion
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2018, 10:49:11 PM »
Cool. How were Ghost’s powers?
9 outta 10 Masters are Master.

Ditto

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Re: Ant-man and Wasp (spoilers) discussion
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2018, 11:19:54 PM »
Ghost looked phenomenal and the fight scenes between her and Wasp were amazing to watch. Both utilized their powers incredibly well in combat.

Also

That mid credit scene though

altoon

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Re: Ant-man and Wasp (spoilers) discussion
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2018, 12:08:55 AM »
Yeah so we know where that going.  Someone should just tell Thor to aim for the arm.

Bandido

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Not BAMF

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Re: Ant-man and Wasp (spoilers) discussion
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2018, 09:46:33 AM »
The movie did way too much telling about Ghost's powers hurting her without actually SHOWING it. She looked badass and awesome, but occasionally said some shit like "Oh, my powers hurt". There was no sympathy there at all because it wasn't believable. That really bothered me the whole time. Visually, she was fascinating, but as a character, she was nothing.

Paul Rudd is a god damn treasure. Evangeline Lilly and Michael Pena were both great. The girl that plays Cassie Lang is delightful. Hell, give her her own movie; I'd watch it.

Aside from that, it was good, not great. It was funny and charming, but really kind of empty. Nowhere near as good as the first one. With the understanding that the MCU no longer makes movies that are worse than "good", I would say it was the worst MCU flick since Iron Man 3.

B- (upon first viewing; I will see it again, and that may well move up)
https://gotstratosphere.com/2018/07/17/show-7-17-18-artists-alley/ - Ghosts Of The Straosphere 7/17/18 (Favorite artists of all time discussion + Read Pile review of CHEW)


Red Exodus

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Re: Ant-man and Wasp (spoilers) discussion
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2018, 09:35:29 AM »
Really disappointed with this one.

Ghost looked cool and had cool powers, but her role in the story was so
fucking nonexistent. She felt more like an afterthought or an annoyance
as opposed to an actual antagonist. Even though he sucked as well,
Yellow Jacket was a far better villain than she was. And continuing with
the MCU tradition, Ghost had 0 character to her.

Wasp stole the show. She had the best action sequences by far.
Ant-Man himself on the other hand, kinda sucked in this. He was
completely outstaged by her/action scene wise.

The humor was still strong in this, much like the 1st one. Luis' truth
serum moment was probably the funniest part of the movie.

Laurence Fishburne played a great Bill Foster, Randall Park was endearing
as Jimmy Woo, and the original cast was still solid.

And also, Janet's Deus Ex Machina power to heal Ghost was so laughably
bad. It was like damn, just write off Ghost already with this shit.

This was a disappointment. Been awhile since Marvel had one of these.

Thanos6

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Re: Ant-man and Wasp (spoilers) discussion
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2018, 08:41:02 AM »
I thought it was as good as the first one. Absolutely hilarious in some parts.
Truten forever!

altoon

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Re: Ant-man and Wasp (spoilers) discussion
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2018, 09:19:19 AM »
I actually liked it more than the first until someone point out a flaw in the movie and ruined it for me. Still enjoyed it just not as much.

HalloweenJack

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Re: Ant-man and Wasp (spoilers) discussion
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2018, 11:23:31 AM »
from The Daily Beast

"Instead of helping Ava find a way to cope (and not necessarily eradicate) her disability, the film seeks to provide a cure. It does so with its own version of “white science,” a term coined by author Carol Clover in her psychoanalytic exploration of horror films, Men, Women, and Chainsaws. It refers to anything considered to be “Western traditional medicine,” usually dispensed or controlled by a white man. The quantum realm functions as this film’s white science, a magical but wholly scientific world discovered by Hank Pym. Once she is freed from the realm, Janet offers to save Ava by transferring her quantum energy into her. She lays her hands on Ava—a technique often associated with tent revival preachers who “cured” poor, afflicted people by touch—and saves the woman through scientific technology.

One could say Janet’s benevolence absolves Hank of his sins [of white privilege], or posits her as a white savior for this disabled woman of color, but it’s unclear whether any of that is directly coded into the film."

Bandido

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Re: Ant-man and Wasp (spoilers) discussion
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2018, 12:53:13 PM »
Lol "...unclear..." In other words my mountain of grievances, may or may not be legitimate. What joke, if anything, that's the pseudo science.

XerxesTWD

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Re: Ant-man and Wasp (spoilers) discussion
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2018, 03:20:30 PM »
from The Daily Beast

"Instead of helping Ava find a way to cope (and not necessarily eradicate) her disability, the film seeks to provide a cure. It does so with its own version of “white science,” a term coined by author Carol Clover in her psychoanalytic exploration of horror films, Men, Women, and Chainsaws. It refers to anything considered to be “Western traditional medicine,” usually dispensed or controlled by a white man. The quantum realm functions as this film’s white science, a magical but wholly scientific world discovered by Hank Pym. Once she is freed from the realm, Janet offers to save Ava by transferring her quantum energy into her. She lays her hands on Ava—a technique often associated with tent revival preachers who “cured” poor, afflicted people by touch—and saves the woman through scientific technology.

One could say Janet’s benevolence absolves Hank of his sins [of white privilege], or posits her as a white savior for this disabled woman of color, but it’s unclear whether any of that is directly coded into the film."
As soon as The Daily Beast pointed this out to altoon the movie was ruined for him.

AP

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Re: Ant-man and Wasp (spoilers) discussion
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2018, 07:24:04 PM »
I just got back:

The Good

It's funnier than the last one.  Even when they reused jokes form the previous one (Luis telling stories, Scott making up pun-names for ants, etc), it works as the jokes are running gags for the characters themselves, so it doesn't come off as forced (I usually hate it when comedy sequels reuse jokes).  Walter Goggins and Randall Park's characters were pretty funny, too.

The action sequences are also better.  These movies keep finding ways to make shrinking/growing powers look interesting.  Ghost's phasing power was also a nice contrast to their abilities which made for fun action scenes.  That chase scene was insane as well.

The first after credits scene was predictable but still pretty damn awesome.  As for the second... anyone else notice that they showed the giant ant playing drums in one of the trailers?  Seems kinda weird that they showed an after credits scene in a trailer.  Not that it took anything away from it.

The Quantum Realm was cool, especially in 3D.  I would've been okay if they just had an entire movie where the heroes float through the Quatum Realm like a modern day Fantastic Voyage.

I like the little bit of the Sokovia Accords we saw in this movie as well as how the Civil War affected not only Scott but also Hope and Hank.  The MCU is doing a great job of showing how the Accords/Civil War affected the world.

The Bad:

Ghost and Foster's plan makes no sense whatsoever.  They want Hank to go to the Quantum Realm to get his wife back, so why not go to Hank and say "Hey, if you go to this dimension and get your wife back, everyone wins".  I know they don't like Pym too much, but it's obvious he would want to get his wife back just as much as they would.  To make matters worse, they soon find out that's EXACTLY what Pym is trying to do but they then proceed to... try to stop them?  I mean, at the end of the movie, Ghost is outright trying to keep the heroes from doing the exact thing she wants them to do.  You'd think she'd team up with them against the arms dealers at point.  But no, she goes about trying to kill the very people she shouldn't want to die.

Hank and Hope get pissed at Scott for bailing on them to make sure the FBI doesn't find out he left his house.  That's on them.  They kidnapped Scott and put him in a position where he could go to prison for a very long time.  He had every right to ditch them for an hour or two so that he won't get in trouble.  I get it that they would be pissed he went off to Germany without telling them, but they had no case against him this time.

I would have liked to see more Giant Man.  We got a glimpse of him in Civil War and he was all over the trailers, but he didn't do anything besides walk through some water and faint.

altoon

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Re: Ant-man and Wasp (spoilers) discussion
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2018, 07:33:38 PM »
from The Daily Beast

"Instead of helping Ava find a way to cope (and not necessarily eradicate) her disability, the film seeks to provide a cure. It does so with its own version of “white science,” a term coined by author Carol Clover in her psychoanalytic exploration of horror films, Men, Women, and Chainsaws. It refers to anything considered to be “Western traditional medicine,” usually dispensed or controlled by a white man. The quantum realm functions as this film’s white science, a magical but wholly scientific world discovered by Hank Pym. Once she is freed from the realm, Janet offers to save Ava by transferring her quantum energy into her. She lays her hands on Ava—a technique often associated with tent revival preachers who “cured” poor, afflicted people by touch—and saves the woman through scientific technology.

One could say Janet’s benevolence absolves Hank of his sins [of white privilege], or posits her as a white savior for this disabled woman of color, but it’s unclear whether any of that is directly coded into the film."
As soon as The Daily Beast pointed this out to altoon the movie was ruined for him.

Nah nothing that complex.

Thanos6

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Re: Ant-man and Wasp (spoilers) discussion
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2018, 12:02:07 AM »
Ghost and Foster's plan makes no sense whatsoever.  They want Hank to go to the Quantum Realm to get his wife back, so why not go to Hank and say "Hey, if you go to this dimension and get your wife back, everyone wins".  I know they don't like Pym too much, but it's obvious he would want to get his wife back just as much as they would.  To make matters worse, they soon find out that's EXACTLY what Pym is trying to do but they then proceed to... try to stop them?  I mean, at the end of the movie, Ghost is outright trying to keep the heroes from doing the exact thing she wants them to do.  You'd think she'd team up with them against the arms dealers at point.  But no, she goes about trying to kill the very people she shouldn't want to die.

Well, Foster admits that their plan involving Janet has a good chance of killing her, which obviously Hank and co. don't want to happen. Also, Ghost was able to start siphoning off part of Janet's quantum energy before they even returned to the "real world," so they didn't need her back.
Truten forever!