Herochat

How would you fix Venom?

HalloweenJack

  • ********
  • 9130
  • +32/-8
  • Rowdy AF
    • View Profile
How would you fix Venom?
« on: October 05, 2018, 06:38:45 PM »
I've been thinking, what with the movie out and everything that Venom's kinda had pretty low stock for a while. Maybe from oversaturation from the 90s, maybe from his anti-hero push (though that's debatable as lots of people prefer him like that)


But if you wanted to fix him how would you do it?

Here's my idea.

Go back to the original idea. The symbiote maybe jumping from body to body. You'd get a series and you'd need a minimum 25 issues for this to work. That the Venom symbiote is hostless for a while. I don't even know if Flash Thompson still has it. If he does, the first issue could be him fighting...I dunno maybe Shriek. We haven't really seen her in a while.

Anyway in the course of battle, the symbiote breaks off from Flash, who gets the ever loving shit kicked out of him and gets a last minute reprieve by hell Spider-Man. Give him a nice heroic intro. Now the symbiote is all messed up from Shriek's sonic/emotional powers. It's unattached, it's disoriented, it sees Spidey helping Flash up and right then in there we get into its 'head' via some dialogue boxes. How it's always Parker in one way or another, and as it slinks away into the sewers, it feels dejected taking things off hand like seeing Parker as the monster that's ruined it time and time again. and it wants revenge.

Of course Flash, some other characters, occasionally Spidey are going to be looking for it.

Say the symbiote bonds with an homeless man in the sewers, and it amplifies his anger at society for throwing him away. He goes totes mental and starts striking back. Now you can maybe bring the Jury in who manage to put the guy down in a sad moment. Part of the symbiote slinks away again, managing to escape and thinking that Spidey once again has something to do with this. Everybody else thinks Venom has been killed, which gives it some anonymity to work.

You get a few stand alone issues, with the symbiote bonding with different people and subtly altering their lives, sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse.

Eventually we get a down on his luck teenager, that the symbiote comes to sympathize with. This kid has lost everything in his life, and is put upon and angry at the world. The symbiote decides to bond with him, giving him a way to fight back, and it alters its appearance somewhat to throw everyone off about it still being alive. And of course this kid wants to be a hero now. But things are soon fucked up. The symbiote urges him on further and further to be more extreme, and the kid is really struggling with that.

Eventually Spidey comes on the scene and that's a massive clusterfuck where the symbiote takes over and we get a huge fight, with Spidey putting two and two together.

The kid rejects the symbiote as Spidey talks to him to get him to take over. In a rage at Spider-Man always taking things from it, the symbiote kills its own host and very nearly does the same thing to Spidey.

Spidey gets saved at the last minute...by Anti-Venom. BETRAYAL! BETRAYED ME!

The symbiote is captured and put under lock and key, though Spidey is a little unsure about Brock helping him in that case. Brock will note before he leaves that he had to come. He felt that it was in pain. He goes uncharacteristically quiet and slips away.

The symbiote is under lock and key at a research facility, but not at Parker's labs. he doesn't want this thing to even communicate what it knows about him, so it's a private place with people he can trust. Maybe a low key Shield facility. Dr. Connors maybe brought on to do tests on it. It's refusing to bond with Flash again to get it under control and almost kills him. And given other things its done, the idea of maybe killing it has to at least be addressed. And Pete's torn on that because he's running out of ideas on what to do with it.

meanwhile we get a stand alone issue about Brock, who's not holding up well. He helped Peter with the symbiote but had issues fighting with it A) because he's emotionally involved and B) the Anti-Venom symbiote so to speak is starting to break down. It's dying and it'll probably take Brock with it when it finally does die, so he's getting depressed.

Meanwhile, Shriek has been sentenced and is getting transported to the Vault. Along the way, her transport is attacked. And she smiles knowing exactly who's busting her out.

"Hey baby....been a while." Carnage says as he slaughters the last of the security around her. He'll explain that he's felt the Venom symbiote too...that it's unstable, it's weak, and now it's time to settle up on at least SOME of his daddy issues. Once that's done, maybe they'll settle down in a little house with a white picket fence that they'll stain red. And feeling nostalgic, Shriek manages to cause Carrion to come back out (if that character is even still alive)


But yeah, Carnage can feel the Venom symbiote's pain (which he LOOOOVES) and where it's stored at.

They eventually just decided to bust the hell in (cause planning isn't a strong suit) and Carnage slaughters the Jury, showing he's playing for keeps. Spidey, Flash, and a few others try to fight them off and the fight turns to Carnage's favor. They get to the symbiote and decide to play with it, Shriek REALLY tormenting it physically and emotionally.

This goes off like a sledgehammer in Brock's head. We get some inner monologue from him, going on about how he knows what the symbiote is and has done. It's a monster, it's twisted and depraved, but it's HIM and damn it he still loves it.

Granted, this is exactly want Carnage wants. He wants Anti-Venom running his way so he can finally take care of those Daddy issues forever. he's got spidey and the other held hostage and warns that if anybody interferes he'll kill them without hesitation. Hell, he still might do it.

Anti-Venom shows up and Carnage tells the authorities that Brock there is the one exception. Send him in.

Big fight breaks out between the two......and Carnage beats the shit out of AV. leaves him near death, gasping, bleeding, maybe run through and tosses what remains to Carrion, who starts to use his death touch which only accelerates the AV symbiote's death. Carnage throws out how pathetic he's become as he's dying. How pathetic both Brock and the symbiote are. How they're shells of who they were. Then he surprisingly calls Carrion and Shriek off. They're a little surprised and Carrion questions him. Carnage puts a blade through his head and explains to Shriek that if she knows what's good for her, she'll shut up too. This was the plan.

Brock's dying and the symbiote senses him, his pain, everything, and realizes that only Eddie Brock really ever mattered to it. He's a loser, he's a whipping boy, he's nothing, just like IT and it still loves him damn it.

They bond and there is no more Brock, no more symbiote. There is only WE and Venom rises up.


Carnage claps. This is how he wanted it. His old man the way he remembered. The way he remembered being abused as a kid, all of it swirling together in his mind like a red mess. If he's going to finally kill Venom, he wants to kill VENOM.

Of course, Venom goes apeshit at this point and the two have a huuuuuuuge double sized issue long brawl. Meanwhile, Spidey's recovered and manages to take out Shriek and starts to get the others out. Venom and Carnage tear this whole place down, flames going up, the flames making their symbiotes retreat a bit so it's more mano y mano. Venom knocks Carnage into the fire....and he's screaming in pain and chastising Venom the whole time, mocking him for the whole Lethal Protector thing and such. Venom stands there for a moment....then risks himself, symbiote searing off as he pulls Carnage out of the fire and shoulders him away. Kasady talks shit the whole time about him trying to be a good guy. The symbiote reforms around Venom "No...no more Mr. Nice Guy. I just wanted you to see what's coming."

Kasady gets a view of Venom's toothy grin, then maybe a shadow of the jaws chomping into Kasady's head.

Venom pulls away "Hmmm....didn't figure there'd be much up there" then casually tosses Kasady's body and the still wounded Carnage symbiote on him back into the fire. He stays a while and watches it burn and die, the he walks right outside, drops to his knees and puts his hands behind his head. Shield arrests him and tells Spidey he screwed the pooch on this one, and given Venom's dangerous nature, he's going to the Vault for the moment. Spidey protests realizing just where this is headed. They probably want to get back their asset that they had years ago when Venom was under their thumb. Venom for his part chuckles as he's carted away "Oh no. Papa's got a whole new bag now. Be seeing you....'Tiger'."

That leaves Spidey cold.

Series ends with Venom in a Vault cell, at peace. They're whole again. They realize their place in the world, and do to all the crap over the years and the symbiote being even more messed up than before, they place all the blame on Parker. They're locked up now, but it wouldn't be the first time they've been in the Vault. No, they'll bide their time and when the moment is right, they'll get out and they'll go right for the source of all their misery and make him pay in sweet, unimaginable ways.

"After all....we're poison to him."



Anyways that's my pitch. anybody else got any ideas?
« Last Edit: October 06, 2018, 06:30:36 AM by HalloweenJack »

Not BAMF

  • ********
  • 5091
  • +21/-13
    • View Profile
Re: How would you fix Venom?
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2018, 10:24:50 PM »
Flash hasn't had the symbiote in a while. Flash is actually dead as of Amazing Spidey #800, where he was last seen as Anti-Venom after having lost the symbiote.

The symbiote is back on Brock now, and Spidey borrowed it in ASM800 to defeat the Red Goblin.


EDIT: I don't really have a fix, I was just helping out. Venom is a character whose history is a convoluted mess, so I have no idea what you do with him at this point.
https://gotstratosphere.com/2018/10/16/show-10-16-18-zach-asks/ (We try out a new challenge to see who can solve some comics scenarios! After that, our rookie fan asks his most recent comic questions)


Riv1

  • ************
  • 20037
  • +64/-1057
    • View Profile
Re: How would you fix Venom?
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2018, 10:55:54 PM »
TLDNR

As to the actual question?
Get rid of all the other symbiotes. Reboot him back to Eddie Brock era and power levels, stick his ass in San Francisco, make him an anti hero, give him a good creative team that will build him a supporting cast and a rogues gallery that is unique to him.

POW! SCOURGE! BREAK! THWACK!

Strawman Abridged

  • *****
  • 1898
  • +21/-5
    • View Profile
Re: How would you fix Venom?
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2018, 12:15:11 AM »
Stop drawing him as some generic, slobbering brute. Give him those McFarlane/Bagley era proportions. Brock Lesnar w/ a symbiote.

And yeah, I miss Evil Prick Venom.






HalloweenJack

  • ********
  • 9130
  • +32/-8
  • Rowdy AF
    • View Profile
Re: How would you fix Venom?
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2018, 06:28:26 AM »
Flash hasn't had the symbiote in a while. Flash is actually dead as of Amazing Spidey #800, where he was last seen as Anti-Venom after having lost the symbiote.

The symbiote is back on Brock now, and Spidey borrowed it in ASM800 to defeat the Red Goblin.


EDIT: I don't really have a fix, I was just helping out. Venom is a character whose history is a convoluted mess, so I have no idea what you do with him at this point.

thanky thanky

AP

  • ********
  • 18538
  • +112/-56
    • View Profile
Re: How would you fix Venom?
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2018, 06:37:29 AM »
Honestly, they should kill off both Venom and Carnage, wait a few decades, and if there is some interest, bring a symbiote back into the mix.  It worked for Kraven and Green Goblin.

INDRA THUNDERER

  • *****
  • 1029
  • +3/-5
    • View Profile
Re: How would you fix Venom?
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2018, 11:31:41 AM »
I've been thinking, what with the movie out and everything that Venom's kinda had pretty low stock for a while. Maybe from oversaturation from the 90s, maybe from his anti-hero push (though that's debatable as lots of people prefer him like that)


But if you wanted to fix him how would you do it?

Here's my idea.

Go back to the original idea. The symbiote maybe jumping from body to body. You'd get a series and you'd need a minimum 25 issues for this to work. That the Venom symbiote is hostless for a while. I don't even know if Flash Thompson still has it. If he does, the first issue could be him fighting...I dunno maybe Shriek. We haven't really seen her in a while.

Anyway in the course of battle, the symbiote breaks off from Flash, who gets the ever loving shit kicked out of him and gets a last minute reprieve by hell Spider-Man. Give him a nice heroic intro. Now the symbiote is all messed up from Shriek's sonic/emotional powers. It's unattached, it's disoriented, it sees Spidey helping Flash up and right then in there we get into its 'head' via some dialogue boxes. How it's always Parker in one way or another, and as it slinks away into the sewers, it feels dejected taking things off hand like seeing Parker as the monster that's ruined it time and time again. and it wants revenge.

Of course Flash, some other characters, occasionally Spidey are going to be looking for it.

Say the symbiote bonds with an homeless man in the sewers, and it amplifies his anger at society for throwing him away. He goes totes mental and starts striking back. Now you can maybe bring the Jury in who manage to put the guy down in a sad moment. Part of the symbiote slinks away again, managing to escape and thinking that Spidey once again has something to do with this. Everybody else thinks Venom has been killed, which gives it some anonymity to work.

You get a few stand alone issues, with the symbiote bonding with different people and subtly altering their lives, sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse.

Eventually we get a down on his luck teenager, that the symbiote comes to sympathize with. This kid has lost everything in his life, and is put upon and angry at the world. The symbiote decides to bond with him, giving him a way to fight back, and it alters its appearance somewhat to throw everyone off about it still being alive. And of course this kid wants to be a hero now. But things are soon fucked up. The symbiote urges him on further and further to be more extreme, and the kid is really struggling with that.

Eventually Spidey comes on the scene and that's a massive clusterfuck where the symbiote takes over and we get a huge fight, with Spidey putting two and two together.

The kid rejects the symbiote as Spidey talks to him to get him to take over. In a rage at Spider-Man always taking things from it, the symbiote kills its own host and very nearly does the same thing to Spidey.

Spidey gets saved at the last minute...by Anti-Venom. BETRAYAL! BETRAYED ME!

The symbiote is captured and put under lock and key, though Spidey is a little unsure about Brock helping him in that case. Brock will note before he leaves that he had to come. He felt that it was in pain. He goes uncharacteristically quiet and slips away.

The symbiote is under lock and key at a research facility, but not at Parker's labs. he doesn't want this thing to even communicate what it knows about him, so it's a private place with people he can trust. Maybe a low key Shield facility. Dr. Connors maybe brought on to do tests on it. It's refusing to bond with Flash again to get it under control and almost kills him. And given other things its done, the idea of maybe killing it has to at least be addressed. And Pete's torn on that because he's running out of ideas on what to do with it.

meanwhile we get a stand alone issue about Brock, who's not holding up well. He helped Peter with the symbiote but had issues fighting with it A) because he's emotionally involved and B) the Anti-Venom symbiote so to speak is starting to break down. It's dying and it'll probably take Brock with it when it finally does die, so he's getting depressed.

Meanwhile, Shriek has been sentenced and is getting transported to the Vault. Along the way, her transport is attacked. And she smiles knowing exactly who's busting her out.

"Hey baby....been a while." Carnage says as he slaughters the last of the security around her. He'll explain that he's felt the Venom symbiote too...that it's unstable, it's weak, and now it's time to settle up on at least SOME of his daddy issues. Once that's done, maybe they'll settle down in a little house with a white picket fence that they'll stain red. And feeling nostalgic, Shriek manages to cause Carrion to come back out (if that character is even still alive)


But yeah, Carnage can feel the Venom symbiote's pain (which he LOOOOVES) and where it's stored at.

They eventually just decided to bust the hell in (cause planning isn't a strong suit) and Carnage slaughters the Jury, showing he's playing for keeps. Spidey, Flash, and a few others try to fight them off and the fight turns to Carnage's favor. They get to the symbiote and decide to play with it, Shriek REALLY tormenting it physically and emotionally.

This goes off like a sledgehammer in Brock's head. We get some inner monologue from him, going on about how he knows what the symbiote is and has done. It's a monster, it's twisted and depraved, but it's HIM and damn it he still loves it.

Granted, this is exactly want Carnage wants. He wants Anti-Venom running his way so he can finally take care of those Daddy issues forever. he's got spidey and the other held hostage and warns that if anybody interferes he'll kill them without hesitation. Hell, he still might do it.

Anti-Venom shows up and Carnage tells the authorities that Brock there is the one exception. Send him in.

Big fight breaks out between the two......and Carnage beats the shit out of AV. leaves him near death, gasping, bleeding, maybe run through and tosses what remains to Carrion, who starts to use his death touch which only accelerates the AV symbiote's death. Carnage throws out how pathetic he's become as he's dying. How pathetic both Brock and the symbiote are. How they're shells of who they were. Then he surprisingly calls Carrion and Shriek off. They're a little surprised and Carrion questions him. Carnage puts a blade through his head and explains to Shriek that if she knows what's good for her, she'll shut up too. This was the plan.

Brock's dying and the symbiote senses him, his pain, everything, and realizes that only Eddie Brock really ever mattered to it. He's a loser, he's a whipping boy, he's nothing, just like IT and it still loves him damn it.

They bond and there is no more Brock, no more symbiote. There is only WE and Venom rises up.


Carnage claps. This is how he wanted it. His old man the way he remembered. The way he remembered being abused as a kid, all of it swirling together in his mind like a red mess. If he's going to finally kill Venom, he wants to kill VENOM.

Of course, Venom goes apeshit at this point and the two have a huuuuuuuge double sized issue long brawl. Meanwhile, Spidey's recovered and manages to take out Shriek and starts to get the others out. Venom and Carnage tear this whole place down, flames going up, the flames making their symbiotes retreat a bit so it's more mano y mano. Venom knocks Carnage into the fire....and he's screaming in pain and chastising Venom the whole time, mocking him for the whole Lethal Protector thing and such. Venom stands there for a moment....then risks himself, symbiote searing off as he pulls Carnage out of the fire and shoulders him away. Kasady talks shit the whole time about him trying to be a good guy. The symbiote reforms around Venom "No...no more Mr. Nice Guy. I just wanted you to see what's coming."

Kasady gets a view of Venom's toothy grin, then maybe a shadow of the jaws chomping into Kasady's head.

Venom pulls away "Hmmm....didn't figure there'd be much up there" then casually tosses Kasady's body and the still wounded Carnage symbiote on him back into the fire. He stays a while and watches it burn and die, the he walks right outside, drops to his knees and puts his hands behind his head. Shield arrests him and tells Spidey he screwed the pooch on this one, and given Venom's dangerous nature, he's going to the Vault for the moment. Spidey protests realizing just where this is headed. They probably want to get back their asset that they had years ago when Venom was under their thumb. Venom for his part chuckles as he's carted away "Oh no. Papa's got a whole new bag now. Be seeing you....'Tiger'."

That leaves Spidey cold.

Series ends with Venom in a Vault cell, at peace. They're whole again. They realize their place in the world, and do to all the crap over the years and the symbiote being even more messed up than before, they place all the blame on Parker. They're locked up now, but it wouldn't be the first time they've been in the Vault. No, they'll bide their time and when the moment is right, they'll get out and they'll go right for the source of all their misery and make him pay in sweet, unimaginable ways.

"After all....we're poison to him."



Anyways that's my pitch. anybody else got any ideas?
I could actually give no fucks about Venom...but THIS i'd buy,& read!Kudos

HalloweenJack

  • ********
  • 9130
  • +32/-8
  • Rowdy AF
    • View Profile
Re: How would you fix Venom?
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2018, 02:34:30 PM »
thank you

Wyntyr

  • ********
  • 8007
  • +114/-83
  • Literally The Devil
    • View Profile
Re: How would you fix Venom?
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2018, 02:38:04 PM »
Flash hasn't had the symbiote in a while. Flash is actually dead as of Amazing Spidey #800, where he was last seen as Anti-Venom after having lost the symbiote.

The symbiote is back on Brock now, and Spidey borrowed it in ASM800 to defeat the Red Goblin.


EDIT: I don't really have a fix, I was just helping out. Venom is a character whose history is a convoluted mess, so I have no idea what you do with him at this point.

Your post actually got me back into ASM again. Thanks for that. 800 was fucking great
The tree grows high but the oxygen fails to reach all the branches


Strawman Abridged

  • *****
  • 1898
  • +21/-5
    • View Profile
Re: How would you fix Venom?
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2018, 02:48:38 PM »
RIP Flash. That was a good death.

Propeus The Fallen

  • ******
  • 3546
  • +32/-6
    • View Profile
Re: How would you fix Venom?
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2018, 07:56:41 PM »
Last I read I kind of liked where the symbiote and Eddie relationship was: the Symbiote being the good guy and trying to talk down Eddie from being--well a revenge driven muscle headed lunatic. Don't know if that's still how it's being written but I just it was a nice little change up.