Herochat

Blue Marvel and Monica vs Hal Jordan and Superman

fangirl101

  • ********
  • 12334
  • +36/-57
  • Didn't see Wonder Woman yet so no spoilers BITCHES
    • View Profile
Blue Marvel and Monica vs Hal Jordan and Superman
« on: June 18, 2018, 09:57:20 PM »
Could be very interesting.

Pillow Biter

  • *****
  • 1945
  • +4/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Blue Marvel and Monica vs Hal Jordan and Superman
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2018, 04:42:41 AM »
Tough to call. Hal has been getting a push lately in his own books, but it's hard to say where he really stands overall.

But I lean towards the DC duo here. I think that when push comes to shove, Superman can overpower Adam. And I'd rate a high-end GL over Monica, though it's close. Hal is THE high end GL, and even without the recent push and self-forged ring thing, I'd still lean Hal over Monica.

fangirl101

  • ********
  • 12334
  • +36/-57
  • Didn't see Wonder Woman yet so no spoilers BITCHES
    • View Profile
Re: Blue Marvel and Monica vs Hal Jordan and Superman
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2018, 05:52:50 AM »
Tough to call. Hal has been getting a push lately in his own books, but it's hard to say where he really stands overall.

But I lean towards the DC duo here. I think that when push comes to shove, Superman can overpower Adam. And I'd rate a high-end GL over Monica, though it's close. Hal is THE high end GL, and even without the recent push and self-forged ring thing, I'd still lean Hal over Monica.
Blue is a vast energy manipulator over Superman and in my Opinion, stronger. Clark has speed advantage. Monica is faster than Hal, and probably e an more versatile. And she did get a huge upgrade that stuck. Plus  she has shown she can drain a ring dry.

Pillow Biter

  • *****
  • 1945
  • +4/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Blue Marvel and Monica vs Hal Jordan and Superman
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2018, 06:23:48 AM »
Versatility is highly overrated in actual comics. Neither Blue Marvel's energy manipulation nor Superman's speed advantage is likely to be decisive--and that would be true even if BM didn't have any super speed of his own. Comics are just like that. So it's mostly a question of power and skill, with comics typically rewarding skill less for powerful characters than for lower level ones. You rarely see hth skill letting the less powerful top tier brick beat the more powerful one. It happens, but not that often. Wonder Woman is one of the few powerhouses who really get credited for their skill. Orion almost never does. Doesn't matter much for Thor. Etc. Lip service is paid, but it rarely seems to change things much.

I think Superman has more raw power than BM. You clearly disagree.

As for Hal, it really is hard to rate him right now. He had his fight with Zod, which may have been thrown. And he's definitely been doing well in the GL books. But heroes often get pushed or even explicitly powered-up in their own books, and it doesn't really stick or catch on. In the end, the real measure of improved standing is in team books, big events, and in the pages of other heroes' books.

So until Hal starts consistently being presented as more powerful than he was before in the abovementioned types of instances, I still rate him where he was in the New 52, but more experienced. Basically, he's a notch below DC's ultra-heavyweight flying bricks in terms of combat formidibility. Wonder Woman, Superman, Martian Manhunter, Mon-El, Black Adam, etc. would all be favored over him and all other GLs 1v1, to varying degrees.

I think that is basically the level Monica operates on now over at Marvel. She's a level below Gladiator, Thor, The Silver Surfer, Blue Marvel, the Hulk, etc.

So I think it's a pretty even fight on a normal day. But I think that Superman is stronger than Blue Marvel on the day-to-day, and has the proven potential of being much stronger on a good day. Under most writers, Superman's power is more dynamic than that of most heroes, though the degree of variability and the mechanism underlying the dynamism vary.

As their power depends on their willpower at the current moment, I believe GLs have naturally dynamic power, though this hasn't really been explicitly laid out to my knowledge. Still, I think the comics bear this out. They are naturally more variable in power than most characters. Nevertheless, I still don't think that even Hal Jordan is typically in what is often called the 'Elite Top Tier' level in raw power. He's in Monica's tier, though I'd still give him the edge in power and skill given how much more experienced and savvy he's become since his cocky New 52 beginnings.


fangirl101

  • ********
  • 12334
  • +36/-57
  • Didn't see Wonder Woman yet so no spoilers BITCHES
    • View Profile
Re: Blue Marvel and Monica vs Hal Jordan and Superman
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2018, 06:38:35 AM »
We will disagree. Superman is in no way stronger than Blue Marvel. Since Blue is Damn near Sentry level and Sentry would spank Superman. Blue being a half step behind Sentry outs him squarely at Superman's best. And, Blue EM is played up quite a bit. He will use it as much as he uses his strength and cosmic awareness. Monica and Hal could either way. But If you switch partners, Superman will have a damn hard time Monica because she could easily be Knite radiation or Red Sunlight while Blue will beat the shot out of Hal. Marvel 7/10.

gokenadams

  • ***
  • 685
  • +3/-12
  • I don't really know or care what an outlier is
    • View Profile
Re: Blue Marvel and Monica vs Hal Jordan and Superman
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2018, 06:47:08 AM »
We will disagree. Superman is in no way stronger than Blue Marvel. Since Blue is Damn near Sentry level and Sentry would spank Superman. Blue being a half step behind Sentry outs him squarely at Superman's best. And, Blue EM is played up quite a bit. He will use it as much as he uses his strength and cosmic awareness. Monica and Hal could either way. But If you switch partners, Superman will have a damn hard time Monica because she could easily be Knite radiation or Red Sunlight while Blue will beat the shot out of Hal. Marvel 7/10.

do us all a favor and shut your retarded ass up

Abhilegend

  • *******
  • 6469
  • +24/-29
    • View Profile
Re: Blue Marvel and Monica vs Hal Jordan and Superman
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2018, 09:25:47 AM »
Versatility is highly overrated in actual comics. Neither Blue Marvel's energy manipulation nor Superman's speed advantage is likely to be decisive--and that would be true even if BM didn't have any super speed of his own. Comics are just like that. So it's mostly a question of power and skill, with comics typically rewarding skill less for powerful characters than for lower level ones. You rarely see hth skill letting the less powerful top tier brick beat the more powerful one. It happens, but not that often. Wonder Woman is one of the few powerhouses who really get credited for their skill. Orion almost never does. Doesn't matter much for Thor. Etc. Lip service is paid, but it rarely seems to change things much.

I think Superman has more raw power than BM. You clearly disagree.

As for Hal, it really is hard to rate him right now. He had his fight with Zod, which may have been thrown. And he's definitely been doing well in the GL books. But heroes often get pushed or even explicitly powered-up in their own books, and it doesn't really stick or catch on. In the end, the real measure of improved standing is in team books, big events, and in the pages of other heroes' books.

So until Hal starts consistently being presented as more powerful than he was before in the abovementioned types of instances, I still rate him where he was in the New 52, but more experienced. Basically, he's a notch below DC's ultra-heavyweight flying bricks in terms of combat formidibility. Wonder Woman, Superman, Martian Manhunter, Mon-El, Black Adam, etc. would all be favored over him and all other GLs 1v1, to varying degrees.

I think that is basically the level Monica operates on now over at Marvel. She's a level below Gladiator, Thor, The Silver Surfer, Blue Marvel, the Hulk, etc.

So I think it's a pretty even fight on a normal day. But I think that Superman is stronger than Blue Marvel on the day-to-day, and has the proven potential of being much stronger on a good day. Under most writers, Superman's power is more dynamic than that of most heroes, though the degree of variability and the mechanism underlying the dynamism vary.

As their power depends on their willpower at the current moment, I believe GLs have naturally dynamic power, though this hasn't really been explicitly laid out to my knowledge. Still, I think the comics bear this out. They are naturally more variable in power than most characters. Nevertheless, I still don't think that even Hal Jordan is typically in what is often called the 'Elite Top Tier' level in raw power. He's in Monica's tier, though I'd still give him the edge in power and skill given how much more experienced and savvy he's become since his cocky New 52 beginnings.


Hal being lesser favoured than J'onn or Wonder Woman? Nonsense.

Pillow Biter

  • *****
  • 1945
  • +4/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Blue Marvel and Monica vs Hal Jordan and Superman
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2018, 09:29:56 AM »
I think Wonder Woman or MM are typically over Hal in a fight, yeah.

Regar

  • **
  • 376
  • +24/-167
    • View Profile
Re: Blue Marvel and Monica vs Hal Jordan and Superman
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2018, 09:30:21 AM »
do us all a favor and shut your retarded ass up

 ;D

Regar

  • **
  • 376
  • +24/-167
    • View Profile
Re: Blue Marvel and Monica vs Hal Jordan and Superman
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2018, 09:30:50 AM »
Superman wins this for his team.

fangirl101

  • ********
  • 12334
  • +36/-57
  • Didn't see Wonder Woman yet so no spoilers BITCHES
    • View Profile
Re: Blue Marvel and Monica vs Hal Jordan and Superman
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2018, 10:21:57 AM »
We will disagree. Superman is in no way stronger than Blue Marvel. Since Blue is Damn near Sentry level and Sentry would spank Superman. Blue being a half step behind Sentry outs him squarely at Superman's best. And, Blue EM is played up quite a bit. He will use it as much as he uses his strength and cosmic awareness. Monica and Hal could either way. But If you switch partners, Superman will have a damn hard time Monica because she could easily be Knite radiation or Red Sunlight while Blue will beat the shot out of Hal. Marvel 7/10.

do us all a favor and shut your retarded ass up
Shut your dumb ass up. Blue has enough high end feats and NO low showings. You idiot.

Abhilegend

  • *******
  • 6469
  • +24/-29
    • View Profile
Re: Blue Marvel and Monica vs Hal Jordan and Superman
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2018, 12:24:32 PM »
I think Wonder Woman or MM are typically over Hal in a fight, yeah.
Nonsense. Hal literally destroyed Parallax Sinestro and even outside his book defeated both Starro and Onimar Synn.

You're nonsensical as always.

Panthergod

  • ********
  • 7662
  • +45/-82
    • View Profile
Re: Blue Marvel and Monica vs Hal Jordan and Superman
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2018, 12:38:33 PM »
Versatility is highly overrated in actual comics. Neither Blue Marvel's energy manipulation nor Superman's speed advantage is likely to be decisive--and that would be true even if BM didn't have any super speed of his own. Comics are just like that. So it's mostly a question of power and skill, with comics typically rewarding skill less for powerful characters than for lower level ones. You rarely see hth skill letting the less powerful top tier brick beat the more powerful one. It happens, but not that often. Wonder Woman is one of the few powerhouses who really get credited for their skill. Orion almost never does. Doesn't matter much for Thor. Etc. Lip service is paid, but it rarely seems to change things much.

I think Superman has more raw power than BM. You clearly disagree.

As for Hal, it really is hard to rate him right now. He had his fight with Zod, which may have been thrown. And he's definitely been doing well in the GL books. But heroes often get pushed or even explicitly powered-up in their own books, and it doesn't really stick or catch on. In the end, the real measure of improved standing is in team books, big events, and in the pages of other heroes' books.

So until Hal starts consistently being presented as more powerful than he was before in the abovementioned types of instances, I still rate him where he was in the New 52, but more experienced. Basically, he's a notch below DC's ultra-heavyweight flying bricks in terms of combat formidibility. Wonder Woman, Superman, Martian Manhunter, Mon-El, Black Adam, etc. would all be favored over him and all other GLs 1v1, to varying degrees.

I think that is basically the level Monica operates on now over at Marvel. She's a level below Gladiator, Thor, The Silver Surfer, Blue Marvel, the Hulk, etc.

So I think it's a pretty even fight on a normal day. But I think that Superman is stronger than Blue Marvel on the day-to-day, and has the proven potential of being much stronger on a good day. Under most writers, Superman's power is more dynamic than that of most heroes, though the degree of variability and the mechanism underlying the dynamism vary.

As their power depends on their willpower at the current moment, I believe GLs have naturally dynamic power, though this hasn't really been explicitly laid out to my knowledge. Still, I think the comics bear this out. They are naturally more variable in power than most characters. Nevertheless, I still don't think that even Hal Jordan is typically in what is often called the 'Elite Top Tier' level in raw power. He's in Monica's tier, though I'd still give him the edge in power and skill given how much more experienced and savvy he's become since his cocky New 52 beginnings.



..You're literally fabricating reasons to ignore what the books show and go with what you already decided was true a decade ago.

Kallor

  • ******
  • 2459
  • +8/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Blue Marvel and Monica vs Hal Jordan and Superman
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2018, 01:07:54 PM »
Are you afraid of debating somebody with knowledge on Superman at PB's level?  I notice that all you do is throw vague condescension at him, while you'll actually go point by point with idiots like gokenadams.  Pillow Biter's post has some substance to it and little to no insults, why don't you try actually debating him?

Panthergod

  • ********
  • 7662
  • +45/-82
    • View Profile
Re: Blue Marvel and Monica vs Hal Jordan and Superman
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2018, 01:56:31 PM »
Are you afraid of debating somebody with knowledge on Superman at PB's level?  I notice that all you do is throw vague condescension at him, while you'll actually go point by point with idiots like gokenadams.  Pillow Biter's post has some substance to it and little to no insults, why don't you try actually debating him?

He's been corrected on this multiple times and has been using this deceitful methodology for years now. No, just because he refuses to read the stories these characters appear in doesn't mean his prefferred portrayal trumps the books.

No, It is not difficult to rate post Rebirth Hal Jordan-- he has power levels far beyond conventional top tier levels. Period. He's been compared to a Guardian multiple times. No top tier this side of Superman has a claim to being more powerful. Zod had to be boosted 2x in order to perform against him the way he did.

And overall, Hal has been in DC's  'elite top tier' in raw power since the Silver Age, where he was compared to Superman as among the League's most powerful members. Tp pretend otherwise because PB prefers flying bricks is laughable.