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Human Superman vs Green Goblin

Abhilegend

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Re: Human Superman vs Green Goblin
« Reply #45 on: June 16, 2018, 11:58:14 PM »
I have to say I am absolutely shocked, SHOCKED, that Ahbi & Jellyrobes misrepresented and misconstrued “feats” for Superman. *clutching pearls to my chest*

Whatcha talking about? I never said Superman outsmarted Lex, he tricked Lex with the help of Starman.

http://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Starman-1988/Issue-28?id=61211

Shuruku is a lying piece of shit as always. Superman didn't know about Mxy involvement but his idea was to trick Lex into giving up the secret of his power loss was still his own trick.

What did I lie about?
That I said Superman knew about Mxy involvement or tricking Lex would restore his power.

He infiltrated and destroyed a Kobra base without any prep.
Without powers?


Yes.
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He has tricked Lex one or two times without any powers but not in a fight.
He didn't use his powers directly, but I'm sure he had to use his powers at some point in the process of defeating Lex.
No, when Mxy turned Superman powerless by red kryptonite, Clark tricked Lex into revealing the same to him and got his power back.
That's my quote and Superman absolutely tricked Lex into revealing how he made Superman powerless.

He said you omitted context. You did. There's no way you can argue against that, whatsoever.

One of two things happened when you gave that example:
1. You withheld information on purpose
2. You didn't know what you were talking about and provided a bad example to support your claim

Which one is it?
I didn't do either of those.

Abhilegend

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Re: Human Superman vs Green Goblin
« Reply #46 on: June 16, 2018, 11:59:45 PM »
That I said Superman knew about Mxy involvement or tricking Lex would restore his power.

I didn't claim you said either of those things.


So where did you try to claim I omitted context?
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That's my quote and Superman absolutely tricked Lex into revealing how he made Superman powerless.

To say he "tricked" Lex suggests he deceived him in some way. Now certainly, he fooled Lex into thinking he was talking to a mild-mannered reporter rather than Superman. But what part of the question itself -- Clark directly asking Lex how he took Superman's power away -- was deceptive?


You don't have to be deceptive to be able to trick someone.

AP

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Re: Human Superman vs Green Goblin
« Reply #47 on: June 17, 2018, 12:42:35 AM »
Tricking someone requires conscious effort.

Abhilegend

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Re: Human Superman vs Green Goblin
« Reply #48 on: June 17, 2018, 07:06:54 AM »
Like Superman tricking Lex with the help of Starman?

The Shuruku Demon

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Re: Human Superman vs Green Goblin
« Reply #49 on: June 17, 2018, 07:22:57 AM »
So where did you try to claim I omitted context?

In regard to the red-K story, I didn't say you omitted context. I did say you "left out" something in regard to the other reference you brought up, whereby you suggested that a powerless Clark destroyed a base, when he actually used his powers to do that.

http://herochat.com/index.php?topic=18684.msg365622#msg365622

AP: "Any examples of a powerless Superman bringing down a genius with super powers and political pull?"

Abhi: "He infiltrated and destroyed a Kobra base without any prep."

Scans of how Clark actually destroyed the base:
http://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Superman-1987/Annual-9?id=79832#48

You don't have to be deceptive to be able to trick someone.

How else can you trick someone?

Like Superman tricking Lex with the help of Starman?

Starman wasn't involved in the scene we were talking about (the one where Clark asked Lex how he took away Superman's powers). Are you now referring to the earlier part of the story where Starman used his shapeshifting power to impersonate Superman, fooling Lex into thinking Superman had regained his powers (until Mxyzptlk told Lex who it actually was)?
http://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Starman-1988/Issue-28?id=61211#19

If so, why should Superman be given credit for that?

AP

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Re: Human Superman vs Green Goblin
« Reply #50 on: June 17, 2018, 07:45:43 AM »
It's sad that Superman's best prep feat involved him basically bumbling around and getting other people to help him until Lex played himself.

Super-intellect, ladies and gents.

Abhilegend

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Re: Human Superman vs Green Goblin
« Reply #51 on: June 17, 2018, 09:47:16 AM »
It was post crisis in general. Superman didn't had super intelligence and wasn't shown particularly smart in most stories.

He however had his super intelligence after Infinite Crisis.

Panthergod

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Re: Human Superman vs Green Goblin
« Reply #52 on: June 17, 2018, 12:27:52 PM »
Superman had super intelligence by the Dominus arc, and definitively post Birthright per For Tomorrow. Johns and Busiek enhanced it further in Up, Up and Away OYL.

AP

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Re: Human Superman vs Green Goblin
« Reply #53 on: June 17, 2018, 12:50:56 PM »
Superman had super intelligence by the Dominus arc, and definitively post Birthright per For Tomorrow. Johns and Busiek enhanced it further in Up, Up and Away OYL.

And what was done with it?  And when has he had it while powerless?

MTL76

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Re: Human Superman vs Green Goblin
« Reply #54 on: June 17, 2018, 02:44:20 PM »
What’s the definition of superintelligence?

Personalky I always viewed it as Superman’s ability to retain knowledge learn more quickly, which really makes it an extension of super speed.

But a Superman robbed of his powers doesn’t become an idiot. In the few times I can remember him losing his powers, he doesn’t act differently, or think to himself that he isn’t thinking clearly. He just can’t learn new things as quickly.


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AP

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Re: Human Superman vs Green Goblin
« Reply #55 on: June 17, 2018, 11:06:36 PM »
What’s the definition of superintelligence?

Personalky I always viewed it as Superman’s ability to retain knowledge learn more quickly, which really makes it an extension of super speed.

But a Superman robbed of his powers doesn’t become an idiot. In the few times I can remember him losing his powers, he doesn’t act differently, or think to himself that he isn’t thinking clearly. He just can’t learn new things as quickly.

The point we're making is that he isn't on the level of geniuses like Osborn.

The Shuruku Demon

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Re: Human Superman vs Green Goblin
« Reply #56 on: June 21, 2018, 06:44:37 AM »
Topping this, because I'm still waiting to hear Abhi explain how exactly Clark "tricked" Luthor.

The Shuruku Demon

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Re: Human Superman vs Green Goblin
« Reply #57 on: June 25, 2018, 09:56:28 AM »
Abhi? I see you've continued responding to other threads, so why not this one?

Abhilegend

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Re: Human Superman vs Green Goblin
« Reply #58 on: June 27, 2018, 03:11:55 AM »
So where did you try to claim I omitted context?

In regard to the red-K story, I didn't say you omitted context. I did say you "left out" something in regard to the other reference you brought up, whereby you suggested that a powerless Clark destroyed a base, when he actually used his powers to do that.

http://herochat.com/index.php?topic=18684.msg365622#msg365622

AP: "Any examples of a powerless Superman bringing down a genius with super powers and political pull?"

Abhi: "He infiltrated and destroyed a Kobra base without any prep."

Scans of how Clark actually destroyed the base:
http://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Superman-1987/Annual-9?id=79832#48


Right, the Kobra base. You're stuck on that? He beat the Kobra soldiers without any powers and blew up the weapons factory.

But yes, he didn't destroy the full base without his powers.
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You don't have to be deceptive to be able to trick someone.

How else can you trick someone?

Like Superman tricking Lex with the help of Starman?

Starman wasn't involved in the scene we were talking about (the one where Clark asked Lex how he took away Superman's powers). Are you now referring to the earlier part of the story where Starman used his shapeshifting power to impersonate Superman, fooling Lex into thinking Superman had regained his powers (until Mxyzptlk told Lex who it actually was)?
http://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Starman-1988/Issue-28?id=61211#19

If so, why should Superman be given credit for that?
That was Clark's plan to fool Luthor.

Why wouldn't he get credit for that?

XerxesTWD

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Re: Human Superman vs Green Goblin
« Reply #59 on: June 27, 2018, 09:30:11 AM »
You said he tricked him but wasn't deceptive. That's not a plan, that's 100% luck.