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Comicsgate

Upper_Krust

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Re: Comicsgate
« Reply #255 on: October 24, 2018, 07:05:38 PM »
So basicly your admiting it nothing to the Shera thing. But arguing well If you put all these connection together..it makes it agenda. Yea if you LOOK for it. And an exagerate it. And thier confirmation bias. Since their going in assuming it a feminis Agenda..when it very little to show. it like people obssessed with the Number 23. Sure they can get a long list of connection.

The She-Ra example is miniscule. The Star Wars or Star Trek examples are far more pronounced.

Quote
Or take Marvel. You yourself Said marvel hasnt been SJW.

Marvel movies just to be clear.

Marvel comics are often SJW.

Quote
Even though you included in your list of examples. So far you havent argued there anything in the trailer that really SJW.
 

Other than her masculine jawline I think the She-Ra trailer is fantastic.

Quote
But because of a some comments the actress made..your arguing not just Captain Marvel will be a SJW anti man thing...but the whole Disney Marvel francise going to. And really that seem like a stretch. And  when people do that..they go into the movie looking for it. Which creates confirmation bias.

Not exactly, so let me clarify my points.

Captain Marvel may well be a very good movie and not SJW at all (unlikely...but possible). I'm simply not going to pay to see it because of the public comments made by Brie Larson.

As regards Marvel movies, I can all too easily see it going full SJW in this next phase. I hope I am wrong.

I can see them doing a New Avengers movie with:

Captain Marvel
Black Panther
Doctor Strange
+ She-Hulk
+ Spider-man
+ Ant-man
+ The Wasp

I think the above would be cool but we might end up getting an A-Force movie instead with side helpings of Fem-Thor, RiRi and Ms. Marvel.

Quote
PG13 is not just about chicks. It about younger people. They make more money that way. A father will take his son or family to see a PG13 marvel movie more often then they will go to see Logan or Deadpool. And by deadpool actully does pretty well with female audiences.


I agree. But my point (which still stands) is that visceral action violence is a turn off for female viewers - one of the reasons the 'cartoonish' Superhero violence has basically taken over the action genre because of its wider appeal. Even the F&F movies have degenerated into quasi-superhero unrealistic action.

Quote
So does a lot of horror movies. Its a money thing. Disney doesnt want to make just some of the money..they want to make all the money. And in a time where the movies so expensive where a 600 million dollar movie can still be a failure..you want most of the money. And past movies werent as Blood soaked as people think. We had more R rated movies. But that because we didnt have a PG13. Which made PG movie more intense and R rated movies less extreme.
 

I think movies that were an 18 in the past are probably not considered an 18 today.

Quote
Halloween didnt have a lot of gore during the first movie. Even Texas Chainswa masscare..which had both the word Chainsaw and Massacre actully wasnt nearly as gory as people imagine. It was applied. The first Rambo vs the 4th tottaly different movies when it comes to gore.  Even the later Rambo movies before 4. They killed a lot in movie but it wasnt this Geyser of blood from four. Not ever movie was a the wild bunch. When they talking about man movies used to be bloody and manly. They basicly talking about the 80's and kind of ignoring a lot of action cinema.

True.

Quote
Well if the decline of the national hero is the international box office. That not really a liberal Sjw thing. That again a money thing. If.

Its a bit of both, but money will always lead the way.

Quote
As for Atomic blond being a guy wouldnt change thing. Not sure about that. But even if that was true. The book its base on it was a female character. It be more force if they made her a guy.  If the actress want her to do action movie..why shouldnt she seek out one if they give her one.


I'm all for female lead action movies, however, I think if you have a female lead in an action movie then they need to be EXTRA convincing (especially when pitted against men) than male action leads.

For a male action star they simply need to be able to convincingly portray someone who can physically handle themselves - either in terms of martial arts skill or being in great shape (or simply really big), or some combination of both.

In the Iron Fist tv show, the lead actor is a total wuss who can neither convince as a fighter nor convince as an action star.

Quote
As for realtionship stuff. That been part of story telling..the main character having a love interest for decades. Reather your male or Female. Even the most maniliest of movies Total recall had a realtionship. Same with James Bond from Russia with Love.

My point is that one of the common traits of SJW heroine's is the absence of heterosexual romance.

Quote
Yes A female beating up multiple guys may be silly. So is a guy didnt it..but people dont seem to lose thier shit over that. Action movies can be silly male or female. Character rarely get fatigure fighting, The bad guys cant shoot, A hero has infinet bullet and can take all sorts of flesh wounds.  Punisher and Jack Baurer basicly has superhero healing factor. The rock is pretty much the thing in the fast and furious. It weird to draw the line on a chick who suspose to know some crazy out thier kung beating up a guy

I think as long as either the actress or character are convincing and not Mary Sue's that goes a long way to making them a convincing action heroine.

I thought Charlize Theron was just about convincing enough (she's quite statuesque for a female).

Gina Carano is very convincing as is Rhonda Rousey as was Cynthia Rothrock. All legit fighters.

Uma Thurman's character went through extensive training scenes. Scarlet Johansson is convincing as Black Widow (or at least the stunt woman doing all the snazzy takedowns is).

Quote
It basicly saying

"Wow I was enjoying the movie where the talking racoon and Sassy tree man was fighting that giant purple dildo man...who can snapped all of existence away with his finger. But then a woman beat up a few men and that totally took me out of it"

So far the MCU has been generally brilliant.

Rufio

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Re: Comicsgate
« Reply #256 on: October 27, 2018, 04:58:16 PM »
UpperKrust,

The left isn’t a monolith. While the social justice crowd has recently taken over many mainstream entertainment and news venues, there are still some, like the Atlantic, that regularly expose its absurdity. Bill Maher, Van Jones, Noam Chomsky, and others have come out against these ideas. Even the actual socialist party came out in favor of the recent Sokal Squared hoax that exposed the level of absurdity in social justice academia:

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/10/18/inte-o18.html

When you say “the left” in your posts, it seems like you’re conflating a current wave of trendy nonsense with the left as a whole.

therock

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Re: Comicsgate
« Reply #257 on: October 27, 2018, 08:32:08 PM »
So basicly your admiting it nothing to the Shera thing. But arguing well If you put all these connection together..it makes it agenda. Yea if you LOOK for it. And an exagerate it. And thier confirmation bias. Since their going in assuming it a feminis Agenda..when it very little to show. it like people obssessed with the Number 23. Sure they can get a long list of connection.

The She-Ra example is miniscule. The Star Wars or Star Trek examples are far more pronounced.

Quote
Or take Marvel. You yourself Said marvel hasnt been SJW.

Marvel movies just to be clear.

Marvel comics are often SJW.

Quote
Even though you included in your list of examples. So far you havent argued there anything in the trailer that really SJW.
 

Other than her masculine jawline I think the She-Ra trailer is fantastic.

Quote
But because of a some comments the actress made..your arguing not just Captain Marvel will be a SJW anti man thing...but the whole Disney Marvel francise going to. And really that seem like a stretch. And  when people do that..they go into the movie looking for it. Which creates confirmation bias.

Not exactly, so let me clarify my points.

Captain Marvel may well be a very good movie and not SJW at all (unlikely...but possible). I'm simply not going to pay to see it because of the public comments made by Brie Larson.

As regards Marvel movies, I can all too easily see it going full SJW in this next phase. I hope I am wrong.

I can see them doing a New Avengers movie with:

Captain Marvel
Black Panther
Doctor Strange
+ She-Hulk
+ Spider-man
+ Ant-man
+ The Wasp

I think the above would be cool but we might end up getting an A-Force movie instead with side helpings of Fem-Thor, RiRi and Ms. Marvel.

Quote
PG13 is not just about chicks. It about younger people. They make more money that way. A father will take his son or family to see a PG13 marvel movie more often then they will go to see Logan or Deadpool. And by deadpool actully does pretty well with female audiences.


I agree. But my point (which still stands) is that visceral action violence is a turn off for female viewers - one of the reasons the 'cartoonish' Superhero violence has basically taken over the action genre because of its wider appeal. Even the F&F movies have degenerated into quasi-superhero unrealistic action.

Quote
So does a lot of horror movies. Its a money thing. Disney doesnt want to make just some of the money..they want to make all the money. And in a time where the movies so expensive where a 600 million dollar movie can still be a failure..you want most of the money. And past movies werent as Blood soaked as people think. We had more R rated movies. But that because we didnt have a PG13. Which made PG movie more intense and R rated movies less extreme.
 

I think movies that were an 18 in the past are probably not considered an 18 today.

Quote
Halloween didnt have a lot of gore during the first movie. Even Texas Chainswa masscare..which had both the word Chainsaw and Massacre actully wasnt nearly as gory as people imagine. It was applied. The first Rambo vs the 4th tottaly different movies when it comes to gore.  Even the later Rambo movies before 4. They killed a lot in movie but it wasnt this Geyser of blood from four. Not ever movie was a the wild bunch. When they talking about man movies used to be bloody and manly. They basicly talking about the 80's and kind of ignoring a lot of action cinema.

True.

Quote
Well if the decline of the national hero is the international box office. That not really a liberal Sjw thing. That again a money thing. If.

Its a bit of both, but money will always lead the way.

Quote
As for Atomic blond being a guy wouldnt change thing. Not sure about that. But even if that was true. The book its base on it was a female character. It be more force if they made her a guy.  If the actress want her to do action movie..why shouldnt she seek out one if they give her one.


I'm all for female lead action movies, however, I think if you have a female lead in an action movie then they need to be EXTRA convincing (especially when pitted against men) than male action leads.

For a male action star they simply need to be able to convincingly portray someone who can physically handle themselves - either in terms of martial arts skill or being in great shape (or simply really big), or some combination of both.

In the Iron Fist tv show, the lead actor is a total wuss who can neither convince as a fighter nor convince as an action star.

Quote
As for realtionship stuff. That been part of story telling..the main character having a love interest for decades. Reather your male or Female. Even the most maniliest of movies Total recall had a realtionship. Same with James Bond from Russia with Love.

My point is that one of the common traits of SJW heroine's is the absence of heterosexual romance.

Quote
Yes A female beating up multiple guys may be silly. So is a guy didnt it..but people dont seem to lose thier shit over that. Action movies can be silly male or female. Character rarely get fatigure fighting, The bad guys cant shoot, A hero has infinet bullet and can take all sorts of flesh wounds.  Punisher and Jack Baurer basicly has superhero healing factor. The rock is pretty much the thing in the fast and furious. It weird to draw the line on a chick who suspose to know some crazy out thier kung beating up a guy

I think as long as either the actress or character are convincing and not Mary Sue's that goes a long way to making them a convincing action heroine.

I thought Charlize Theron was just about convincing enough (she's quite statuesque for a female).

Gina Carano is very convincing as is Rhonda Rousey as was Cynthia Rothrock. All legit fighters.

Uma Thurman's character went through extensive training scenes. Scarlet Johansson is convincing as Black Widow (or at least the stunt woman doing all the snazzy takedowns is).

Quote
It basicly saying

"Wow I was enjoying the movie where the talking racoon and Sassy tree man was fighting that giant purple dildo man...who can snapped all of existence away with his finger. But then a woman beat up a few men and that totally took me out of it"

So far the MCU has been generally brilliant.

Hear the thing you basicly said that Atomic Blond basicly Ok and does it realisticly. But you still include it as example of a feminist Agenda..to demasculate people. It seem like most of the stuff, when you actully go into the detail..it not really as bad as it says it is. And it just padding the list, to make it seem more of an epedemic

Also it be nothing wrong with an A force movie...if there still other movies. We know where Getting a Champions movie, DR strage 2, Spiderman 2, maybe another gaurdians. Secret Invasion probally with Avengers. Show the idea that will lead to Just female heroes emascualing men..unwarented..and doesnt fit what the current slate of movies are. We know what movies coming down the pipe. Mostly Dudes.  It seem base on the actress said some feminist shit..and therefore that make the francise from now to the end an SJW francise. When really doesnt make since. Since it doesnt fit what they did in the past and these movies need to make a Billion dollars. So they want everyone, guys and girls. And yes to make it up to that Big B they may include some minorities and women

We know a black widow movie. is one ass kicking women movies discount the multiple Ass kicking men movies..thats coming out. Does the fact its a scarlet witch show, discount the Loki show

I get getting mad at an actress saying stuff you dont agree with. But Mel Gibson said some horride stuff, Get The Gringo was still Awesome. Mark Wallberg beat the shit out of someone during some Racist attack, Ted still funny. Dont agree with Clinto eastwood..but still seeing this movie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib-Fhj2BEd4

You include the fast and Furious movies. saying they dumbed it down to appease women and tone down the violence. Here the thing, Fast and The furious was never R rated. It was never THAT violent. It was point break. And got gradully dumber over each movie. It started to go really dumb around 4, and got dumber when rock appeared, you know with character coming back from the dead and shit.  And it very popular with men. So not sure how much the change is to appease women. It been dumb as shit and cartoony for a while. You cant blame Huffington post and college students for that. And this coming from a guy who say all the movies, and nearly cried at the end of the one with Paul Walker left


NeoGreenLantern

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Re: Comicsgate
« Reply #258 on: October 28, 2018, 07:11:20 PM »
I noticed something the other day while listening to a 90's playlist on spotify. The comicsgate/gamergate/MRA/incels would be losing their shit over "musicgate" if a good chunk of the popular rock at that time was being created now.

While I was listening there were tons of girl power rock socks from various female lead bands/solo artist being played, Hole, No Doubt, Alanis, etc, etc, etc. A lot of the message being "fuck men!". There was also a lot of popular songs people would not claim to promote the "soyboy" non-alpha mentality, like Creep by Radiohead and Self Esteem by Offspring.

Rufio

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Re: Comicsgate
« Reply #259 on: October 29, 2018, 05:31:30 AM »
I noticed something the other day while listening to a 90's playlist on spotify. The comicsgate/gamergate/MRA/incels would be losing their shit over "musicgate" if a good chunk of the popular rock at that time was being created now.

While I was listening there were tons of girl power rock socks from various female lead bands/solo artist being played, Hole, No Doubt, Alanis, etc, etc, etc. A lot of the message being "fuck men!". There was also a lot of popular songs people would not claim to promote the "soyboy" non-alpha mentality, like Creep by Radiohead and Self Esteem by Offspring.

First, it’s actually bizarre to lump rigid ideologues (“MRA/incels”) together with people who are annoyed that their entertainment is being ruined by rigid ideologies. While some of the former have surely latched onto the latter, conflating them is lazy and inaccurate.

Second, I don’t see this comparison working at all. Hole? No Doubt? Alanis? They made normal songs about being angry about individual people. They didn’t promote extremist identity politics. And they didn’t dominate the scene. If you didn’t like their songs at the moment, you could easily find something else more to your liking.

The same is true of the other songs you mention. Self-Esteem is a normal relationship song. The Offspring also wrote numerous other songs with more of a badass tone, even on the same album, like Nitro (Youth Energy). They had a diversity in the tone and message of the songs.

I think you’re also missing the issue of scale. In 1990s music, extreme identity politics were mostly limited to alternative or punk bands. It was counterculture. And within the same genre, you had extremely un-PC lyrics (like The Misfits) and no one was acting as the fun police trying to shut that down.

That’s really the difference. I think these “gate” movements are primarily in geeky industries that have always been very welcoming and liberal, then got captured by opportunists promoting extreme identity politics at the expense of entertainment. Music was never like that. So far, it’s kept a diversity of perspectives.

To make your comparison work better, imagine a world where all of the offensive, fun hip hop is replaced by Macklemore and Drake. And 90% of the songs are Macklemore’s socially conscious songs. How do you think fans would react to that?

I’m not a fan of her music, but I always found it amusing that Katy Perry didn’t seem to mind offending certain people with her irreverent lyrics. She mostly sung about partying, but morons claimed she promoted rape and homophobia (she didn’t). Now she’s transformed into a “woke” persona, apologized for her “problematic” lyrics, and of course had to give herself a much more masculine looking haircut and clothing style. But no one cares because it’s just Katy Perry. I imagine that if almost every artist people liked suddenly transformed themselves in a similar manner, most normal people would be saying “WTF?”

That’s really the situation Marvel is in. Virtually every mainstream character suddenly transformed into a social justice-y version of themselves, and there’s groundless hating on the past.

Ironically, in music it’s often been right wing PC sensibilities that have been offended. Think Ice T’s Cop Killer or Marilyn Manson. But if all the mainstream artists did what Marvel has done to its mainstream characters, normal people would probably react similarly.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 07:59:13 AM by Rufio »

therock

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Re: Comicsgate
« Reply #260 on: October 29, 2018, 11:02:10 AM »
I dont know hip hop always had politics

duck the police, 911 a joke, cop killer,or a message queen latiafaj unity song. calling jon Wayne and elvis a racist. they were political. pretty radical shit. didnt shy away from black idenity

just added homophobia and sexism mixed in but still political
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 11:04:59 AM by therock »

Panthergod

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Re: Comicsgate
« Reply #261 on: October 29, 2018, 01:15:32 PM »
I noticed something the other day while listening to a 90's playlist on spotify. The comicsgate/gamergate/MRA/incels would be losing their shit over "musicgate" if a good chunk of the popular rock at that time was being created now.

While I was listening there were tons of girl power rock socks from various female lead bands/solo artist being played, Hole, No Doubt, Alanis, etc, etc, etc. A lot of the message being "fuck men!". There was also a lot of popular songs people would not claim to promote the "soyboy" non-alpha mentality, like Creep by Radiohead and Self Esteem by Offspring.

First, it’s actually bizarre to lump rigid ideologues (“MRA/incels”) together with people who are annoyed that their entertainment is being ruined by rigid ideologies. While some of the former have surely latched onto the latter, conflating them is lazy and inaccurate.

Second, I don’t see this comparison working at all. Hole? No Doubt? Alanis? They made normal songs about being angry about individual people. They didn’t promote extremist identity politics. And they didn’t dominate the scene. If you didn’t like their songs at the moment, you could easily find something else more to your liking.

The same is true of the other songs you mention. Self-Esteem is a normal relationship song. The Offspring also wrote numerous other songs with more of a badass tone, even on the same album, like Nitro (Youth Energy). They had a diversity in the tone and message of the songs.

I think you’re also missing the issue of scale. In 1990s music, extreme identity politics were mostly limited to alternative or punk bands. It was counterculture. And within the same genre, you had extremely un-PC lyrics (like The Misfits) and no one was acting as the fun police trying to shut that down.

That’s really the difference. I think these “gate” movements are primarily in geeky industries that have always been very welcoming and liberal, then got captured by opportunists promoting extreme identity politics at the expense of entertainment. Music was never like that. So far, it’s kept a diversity of perspectives.

To make your comparison work better, imagine a world where all of the offensive, fun hip hop is replaced by Macklemore and Drake. And 90% of the songs are Macklemore’s socially conscious songs. How do you think fans would react to that?

I’m not a fan of her music, but I always found it amusing that Katy Perry didn’t seem to mind offending certain people with her irreverent lyrics. She mostly sung about partying, but morons claimed she promoted rape and homophobia (she didn’t). Now she’s transformed into a “woke” persona, apologized for her “problematic” lyrics, and of course had to give herself a much more masculine looking haircut and clothing style. But no one cares because it’s just Katy Perry. I imagine that if almost every artist people liked suddenly transformed themselves in a similar manner, most normal people would be saying “WTF?”

That’s really the situation Marvel is in. Virtually every mainstream character suddenly transformed into a social justice-y version of themselves, and there’s groundless hating on the past.

Ironically, in music it’s often been right wing PC sensibilities that have been offended. Think Ice T’s Cop Killer or Marilyn Manson. But if all the mainstream artists did what Marvel has done to its mainstream characters, normal people would probably react similarly.


..So the vast manjority of recording artists in mainstream music aren't blatant left wingers now..?

what world are you living in..?


NeoGreenLantern

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Re: Comicsgate
« Reply #262 on: October 29, 2018, 01:45:30 PM »
If No Doubt came out with "I'm just a girl" now Gwen would be getting death threats on Twitter.

And Self esteem is more than just about a relationship. It's about a guy who basically sits around waiting on his cheating girlfriend because he doesn't you the balls to break up with her. If Peter Parker is a cuck for sleeping on the couch of a woman he's only been on a few dates with then the guy in self esteem is cuck king.

Rufio

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Re: Comicsgate
« Reply #263 on: October 29, 2018, 04:25:07 PM »
Who opines on anything on Twitter without getting death threats? Virtually every famous person gets internet death threats. Some are just more vocal about it and exploit them as a opportunity to bolster arguments that aren’t otherwise supported by logic.

As to Self Esteem, like I said, that’s literally one song on an album full of songs told from other perspectives. The current backlash against Marvel is not about one or two issues. It’s about the sheer volume of stories that push an extremist ideology at the expense of fun, and the lack of stories that stray from that agenda.

And for what it’s worth, Dexter Holland was just talking about being walked over in a relationship. It didn’t have a political element. He wasn’t singing about sitting around in an “ask me about my feminist agenda” shirt, nor did he sing about meekly responding to constant “why does it have to be [insert complaint about gendered language]” questions, both of which Slott placed into Spider-Man. And Slott’s Spider-Man is one of the least overtly ideological examples of SJW era Marvel, not the most.

I can easily see all the songs you mentioned coming out today with little controversy. Similar songs are produced all the time. On the other hand, the social justice crowd is constantly bombarding media with whines about how “problematic” every song in history is.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 04:27:17 PM by Rufio »

Rufio

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Re: Comicsgate
« Reply #264 on: October 29, 2018, 04:29:00 PM »
I noticed something the other day while listening to a 90's playlist on spotify. The comicsgate/gamergate/MRA/incels would be losing their shit over "musicgate" if a good chunk of the popular rock at that time was being created now.

While I was listening there were tons of girl power rock socks from various female lead bands/solo artist being played, Hole, No Doubt, Alanis, etc, etc, etc. A lot of the message being "fuck men!". There was also a lot of popular songs people would not claim to promote the "soyboy" non-alpha mentality, like Creep by Radiohead and Self Esteem by Offspring.

First, it’s actually bizarre to lump rigid ideologues (“MRA/incels”) together with people who are annoyed that their entertainment is being ruined by rigid ideologies. While some of the former have surely latched onto the latter, conflating them is lazy and inaccurate.

Second, I don’t see this comparison working at all. Hole? No Doubt? Alanis? They made normal songs about being angry about individual people. They didn’t promote extremist identity politics. And they didn’t dominate the scene. If you didn’t like their songs at the moment, you could easily find something else more to your liking.

The same is true of the other songs you mention. Self-Esteem is a normal relationship song. The Offspring also wrote numerous other songs with more of a badass tone, even on the same album, like Nitro (Youth Energy). They had a diversity in the tone and message of the songs.

I think you’re also missing the issue of scale. In 1990s music, extreme identity politics were mostly limited to alternative or punk bands. It was counterculture. And within the same genre, you had extremely un-PC lyrics (like The Misfits) and no one was acting as the fun police trying to shut that down.

That’s really the difference. I think these “gate” movements are primarily in geeky industries that have always been very welcoming and liberal, then got captured by opportunists promoting extreme identity politics at the expense of entertainment. Music was never like that. So far, it’s kept a diversity of perspectives.

To make your comparison work better, imagine a world where all of the offensive, fun hip hop is replaced by Macklemore and Drake. And 90% of the songs are Macklemore’s socially conscious songs. How do you think fans would react to that?

I’m not a fan of her music, but I always found it amusing that Katy Perry didn’t seem to mind offending certain people with her irreverent lyrics. She mostly sung about partying, but morons claimed she promoted rape and homophobia (she didn’t). Now she’s transformed into a “woke” persona, apologized for her “problematic” lyrics, and of course had to give herself a much more masculine looking haircut and clothing style. But no one cares because it’s just Katy Perry. I imagine that if almost every artist people liked suddenly transformed themselves in a similar manner, most normal people would be saying “WTF?”

That’s really the situation Marvel is in. Virtually every mainstream character suddenly transformed into a social justice-y version of themselves, and there’s groundless hating on the past.

Ironically, in music it’s often been right wing PC sensibilities that have been offended. Think Ice T’s Cop Killer or Marilyn Manson. But if all the mainstream artists did what Marvel has done to its mainstream characters, normal people would probably react similarly.


..So the vast manjority of recording artists in mainstream music aren't blatant left wingers now..?

what world are you living in..?

... Where did I say that?

Your questions don’t logically follow from
anything I said.

NeoGreenLantern

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Re: Comicsgate
« Reply #265 on: October 29, 2018, 05:19:06 PM »
You basically summed up a Jelly post right there.