Herochat

Most Disastrous Comic Book Runs

Riv1

  • ************
  • 20505
  • +69/-1061
    • View Profile
Re: Most Disastrous Comic Book Runs
« Reply #30 on: May 18, 2018, 08:44:39 AM »
Oh i have one.
Whoever was responsible for the Rawhide Kid MAX series seriously set homosexuality in comics back to like, Seduction of The Innocent days.   

Knock knock. Who’s there? I broke scourge. HAHAHAHA!

Upper_Krust

  • *****
  • 1369
  • +22/-55
    • View Profile
Re: Most Disastrous Comic Book Runs
« Reply #31 on: May 18, 2018, 12:10:56 PM »
Jurgen's run had the most annoying, wordy take on "Thor speak" imaginable for the first like 40+ issues,


The same 'Thor speak' that makes the character unique.
The same 'Thor speak' that (to an extent) they use for MCU Thor (albeit they've added humour to counterbalance his pomposity).
The same 'Thor speak' Aaron's Fem-Thor knock-off occasionally uses even though that's totally nonsensical.

Quote
and used the exact same battle formula for nearly all significant encounters until the Reigning started.

Is it a 'battle formula' where Thor is given a tough challenge and initially gets his crap kicked in only to come back AGAINST THE ODDS and win. ie. a good battle formula*.

*Maybe he should have just had Thor overpower Mangog and toss him into the sun.  ::)

Quote
The Reigning was then decompressed as hell, giving us a near-villainous Thor for years,

Agreed it was decompressed* and should have been the 12 issue mini-series it was initially conceived to be.

*Like current Marvel comics.

Quote
and then had a rush job nonsense ending because he ran out of time.

Marvel spring on him a month or two before they cancel his run that he needs to end it - hardly his fault.

Quote
I know you liked it because it had action that modern comics lack,


It had truly great action scenes, cool moments*, actual heroism pitting Thor 'against the odds', interesting new villains and decent pacing.

*so good in fact Aaron copied one scene from Jurgen's Mangog fight in his current debacle of a run
...and inarguably Gorr is somewhat like Desak.
...and Jurgen's also had Thor Girl.
...and Jurgen's had older Thor with one arm.
...and Jurgen's had Thor unworthy to lift Mjolnir.

Quote
but books used to have more action in general than modern comics.


- They certainly had BETTER action and better consistency.
- I'd argue a faster turnover of stories leads to more conflict (and thus more frequent action) than decompressed stories. Decompressed stories (such as the typical 1 story in 6 issue formula we see today) devalue the worth of individual issues. They might well read fine in Trade format but they are generally weak as individual issues.

Quote
It's "good" by comparison, not on its own merits.

Jurgen's run, certainly the 50+ issues preceding the Reigning were fantastic and conceived to be a new readers introduction to Thor who had been off the shelves for several years.

Quote
Jurgen's was basically Defalco with better ideas, but worse execution.

In my opinion its one of the best runs and probably THE best jumping on point for new readers.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2018, 12:12:28 PM by Upper_Krust »

Upper_Krust

  • *****
  • 1369
  • +22/-55
    • View Profile
Re: Most Disastrous Comic Book Runs
« Reply #32 on: May 18, 2018, 12:16:54 PM »
I didn't like the start of Jurgens's Thor,

I'm genuinely curious as to why? Not saying you are necessarily right or wrong - not everyone likes every book after all.

Quote
but I quite enjoyed The Reigning, myself.

The idea of the Reigning was fantastically refreshing (its very rare for the Thor title to touch on real world religious issues) BUT I agree with Kallor in that it went on too long.

Not BAMF

  • ********
  • 5168
  • +22/-15
    • View Profile
Re: Most Disastrous Comic Book Runs
« Reply #33 on: May 18, 2018, 03:28:47 PM »
Upper Krust is seriously the fucking worst, guys. Can we fire him or something?

Thanos6

  • *****
  • 1598
  • +21/-17
    • View Profile
Re: Most Disastrous Comic Book Runs
« Reply #34 on: May 18, 2018, 06:34:48 PM »
I didn't like the start of Jurgens's Thor,

I'm genuinely curious as to why? Not saying you are necessarily right or wrong - not everyone likes every book after all.

I didn't like his treatment of my namesake. He continued the trend begun in Ka-Zar of undoing Thanos's post-IG character development and taking him back to his days of conquest and stellar genocide.

The whole Jake Olson thing. I personally feel Thor had long since moved past the "turn into a mortal" idea. (Doesn't mean he can't have a mortal identity, like Sigurd Jarlson that Simonson came up with, but without actually being mortal.)

Quote
Quote
but I quite enjoyed The Reigning, myself.

The idea of the Reigning was fantastically refreshing (its very rare for the Thor title to touch on real world religious issues) BUT I agree with Kallor in that it went on too long.

Actually, I would have been fine with it going even longer. But then, I am the guy who loved Busiek's Kang Dynasty. :)
Truten forever!

Riv1

  • ************
  • 20505
  • +69/-1061
    • View Profile
Re: Most Disastrous Comic Book Runs
« Reply #35 on: May 19, 2018, 01:58:03 AM »
^^^Kang Dynasty.
If thats what i’m thinking of, i didnt like it.

Knock knock. Who’s there? I broke scourge. HAHAHAHA!

Thanos6

  • *****
  • 1598
  • +21/-17
    • View Profile
Re: Most Disastrous Comic Book Runs
« Reply #36 on: May 19, 2018, 03:46:22 AM »
^^^Kang Dynasty.
If thats what i’m thinking of, i didnt like it.

The year-and-a-half-long story in Avengers where Kang took over the world.
Truten forever!

Riv1

  • ************
  • 20505
  • +69/-1061
    • View Profile
Re: Most Disastrous Comic Book Runs
« Reply #37 on: May 19, 2018, 05:52:45 AM »
Yeah thats the one.
Not sure how disasterous it was, but it bored the piss out of me.

Knock knock. Who’s there? I broke scourge. HAHAHAHA!

Thanos6

  • *****
  • 1598
  • +21/-17
    • View Profile
Re: Most Disastrous Comic Book Runs
« Reply #38 on: May 19, 2018, 06:19:56 AM »
Yeah thats the one.
Not sure how disasterous it was, but it bored the piss out of me.

Not disastrous at all! It's my favorite Avengers story ever.
Truten forever!

Riv1

  • ************
  • 20505
  • +69/-1061
    • View Profile
Re: Most Disastrous Comic Book Runs
« Reply #39 on: May 19, 2018, 07:46:53 AM »
To each his own, and no offense meant.

Knock knock. Who’s there? I broke scourge. HAHAHAHA!

Upper_Krust

  • *****
  • 1369
  • +22/-55
    • View Profile
Re: Most Disastrous Comic Book Runs
« Reply #40 on: May 19, 2018, 02:49:25 PM »
Upper Krust is seriously the fucking worst, guys. Can we fire him or something?

What on Earth are you blathering about son? Are you so thin-skinned that any opinion other than those you agree with must be silenced? If so, grow up.

Upper_Krust

  • *****
  • 1369
  • +22/-55
    • View Profile
Re: Most Disastrous Comic Book Runs
« Reply #41 on: May 19, 2018, 03:02:24 PM »
I didn't like his treatment of my namesake. He continued the trend begun in Ka-Zar of undoing Thanos's post-IG character development and taking him back to his days of conquest and stellar genocide.

That's fair enough I suppose.

Quote
The whole Jake Olson thing. I personally feel Thor had long since moved past the "turn into a mortal" idea. (Doesn't mean he can't have a mortal identity, like Sigurd Jarlson that Simonson came up with, but without actually being mortal.)

Well firstly, Jurgen's run was meant to be a jump on point for new readers - hence it brought back many classic villains and the whole mortal identity (and 60 second rule) thing was replayed.

Secondly, having a mortal identity is a good way to ground Thor and make him relatable and importantly give him a reason for being on Earth. Plus it can create interesting side stories.

I do agree that Simonson's removal of that side of things was to show Thor had moved past his youthful arrogance and grown up, as well as stepping out from the shadow of his father (symbolised by his growing of a beard). But the Simonson era was more a progression of the story for long term readers while Jurgen's was a quasi-retelling for new readers.

Quote
Actually, I would have been fine with it going even longer. But then, I am the guy who loved Busiek's Kang Dynasty. :)

I loved it too. Busiek on Avengers (which I admittedly read years later in trade format) was a seriously good run.

Not BAMF

  • ********
  • 5168
  • +22/-15
    • View Profile
Re: Most Disastrous Comic Book Runs
« Reply #42 on: May 20, 2018, 05:25:36 PM »
Upper Krust is seriously the fucking worst, guys. Can we fire him or something?

What on Earth are you blathering about son? Are you so thin-skinned that any opinion other than those you agree with must be silenced? If so, grow up.

Says the guy whose masculinity is so devastated that they made a Thor that he has to cry about it and whine about SJWs like they are out to get him.

Go back to slurping off Comics & Diversity and threatening shops for not carrying shit ass Jawbreaker or whatever it’s called.

Upper_Krust

  • *****
  • 1369
  • +22/-55
    • View Profile
Re: Most Disastrous Comic Book Runs
« Reply #43 on: May 20, 2018, 06:49:21 PM »
Says the guy whose masculinity is so devastated that they made a Thor that he has to cry about it and whine about SJWs like they are out to get him.

I'm not devastated, I'm simply not buying it because its openly pushing an agenda of, for want of a better term 'anti-masculinity'. Even then, I'm not against comics that have this anti-masculinity agenda, I'm just annoyed that someone thought it was a good idea to push this agenda in a Thor book (though you could argue Marvel push this agenda in almost every book of late).

Aaron could have told the exact same story without putting down (the real) Thor (and by extension Thor fans) and without pushing his ideology upon the book* and I would have supported his run as I have all the others (barring Fraction's last year whereupon I was burned on his poor writing) for close to 30 years.

*A book he did not create lets be clear.

Aaron, to his credit, is probably the best 'mystery-merchant' in the comics industry I have ever seen. His ability to construct an intriguing 'bait' to lure in readers is flat out brilliant. That said, when it comes time for his stories to 'pony up' and deliver he falls flat on his face every time, only to ignore that and move on to casting out the next bit of bait.

Aaron's run, for all its supporters (such as yourself presumably) and detractors (like myself) ultimately boils down to an 'Anti-Thor' book. It does almost everything in its power to criticize, emasculate and humiliate the character (and any male supporting characters). Its a book by someone who HATES the character and all he stands for.

They took a self-proclaimed Atheist, Feminist and Identity Politics Peddler and gave him a book about a white male god - its no wonder at all we ended up where we are.

Quote
Go back to slurping off Comics & Diversity and threatening shops for not carrying shit ass Jawbreaker or whatever it’s called.

Seems you're following the SJW playbook step-by-step:

1. Spread a bunch of lies about people with different political opinions to your own.
2. Demonize them enough to justify any sort of attack, even violence.
3. Try to de-platform them and make sure to let everyone else know they'll be tarnished with the same brush if they don't immediately condemn them.

Riv1

  • ************
  • 20505
  • +69/-1061
    • View Profile
Re: Most Disastrous Comic Book Runs
« Reply #44 on: May 21, 2018, 12:14:50 AM »
^^^thats a pretty great synopsis on how a smear campaign works.

Knock knock. Who’s there? I broke scourge. HAHAHAHA!