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Michael Jordan vs. LeBron James

Mightily Oats

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Re: Michael Jordan vs. LeBron James
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2018, 02:48:03 PM »
As someone who doesn't watch or like sports, it seems like LeBron by most standards other than nostalgia/not wanting to demythologize Jordan

Nevermind how many more years he has in him

Quan_the_Antagonist

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Re: Michael Jordan vs. LeBron James
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2018, 07:51:23 PM »
There is no clear answer but every generation insists they saw the best guy.  It’s funny and I’m a guy who grew up loving Jordan.  There is no definitive greatest just an opinion.  It’s amusing to see fans insist they re right and blow their gaskets at a difference of opinion. The younger generation doesn’t even think it’s close.  This is their greatest athlete.  Older generation favors Jordan. 

Not BAMF

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Re: Michael Jordan vs. LeBron James
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2018, 08:30:28 AM »
That is the most rational and well-thought-out Quan post ever. Commendable!
https://gotstratosphere.com/2018/06/19/show-6-19-18-munching-on-planets/ - Ghosts Of The Straosphere 6/19/18 (Rookie Comic Fans' Questions + Dark Phoenix Saga review)


Ditto

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Re: Michael Jordan vs. LeBron James
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2018, 09:52:24 AM »
It used to be flat out Jordan for me but every year Lebron sees another finals (win or lose) with questionable talent raises him ever so slightly in my eyes. Not to mention I wholly believe Lebron has more worth to a team due to his ability to play and defend each position in comparison to Jordan.

Pillow Biter

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Re: Michael Jordan vs. LeBron James
« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2018, 11:00:50 AM »
These discussions tend to go poorly because people tend to weight career accomplishments vs. prime play.

That being said, I tend to mostly think of how great a player's prime is, provided it is of sufficient length. I tend to think of it as: "You are a GM. You have to pick one of them in their respective primes for one for a season, with players being given a reasonable amount of time to adjust to technology and rules changes."

With that in mind, I still favor Jordan. But Lebron is #2 for me.

I do feel that not enough attention is given to the rule changes allowing more zone-like defenses, and the resulting increase in defensive sophistication since the nineties; instead, it tends to all be about the handcheck and overall greater physicality of nineties ball. Both changes are important, and I don't exactly know how it all comes out when comparing eras. That said, I see no reason to think that greatest perimeter/wing player in NBA history wouldn't do better under rules clearly designed to favor such players; even given the superior all-around athleticism of today's league. I have no doubt Jordan would become a superior 3-point shooter very quickly, and soon a great one. He purposely avoided learning how to take threes as he felt that attempting them diluted his aggressiveness. Jordan could also easily adapt to the modern games ball movement. He could pass with the best of them, and could even have become an all-time great passer if Chicago had decided this was the best use of his talents. Way back in the day, they played MJ as PG for a minute and he basically averaged a triple double iirc. So MJ could definitely be a great hybrid PG/Sg like Harden, etc. And he could still play defense.

« Last Edit: May 23, 2018, 11:11:21 AM by Pillow Biter »

XerxesTWD

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Re: Michael Jordan vs. LeBron James
« Reply #20 on: May 23, 2018, 01:39:55 PM »
LeBron makes it to the playoffs and Finals through sheer athleticism and force of will.

Jordan definitely had much better supporting players.


LeBron will end up #1, but he's not there yet. I think I said this earlier or somewhere else. Whatever.

Clownprince23

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Re: Michael Jordan vs. LeBron James
« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2018, 04:57:25 PM »
https://www.foxsports.com/san-diego/video/1237218883713


Interesting article comparing the teams of Jordan and Lebron.

Quan_the_Antagonist

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Re: Michael Jordan vs. LeBron James
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2018, 10:08:20 PM »
LeBron is a force of nature.  This cast of pure shit is such an underdog it’s outrageous against a historically great team and LeBron puts up 50 plus.  The dude is a man amongst boys.  Oh and fuck JR Smith he’s such a dumb shit for that all time gaffe.

GeneralPresidentSkeletor

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Re: Michael Jordan vs. LeBron James
« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2018, 05:51:35 AM »
JR Smith is the dumbest motherfucker on the planet. Goes for the meaningless steal before halftime, costs them 3 points.

He clearly had no situational awareness at the end and dribbled away a chance to steal a victory. That said, Hill should have made both free throws.

Goes to show that rings are a TEAM accomplishment, because Lebron can go ahead and average a triple double for the rest of the series and it won't do any good. Game 2 will be a fucking SLAUGHTER; GS wins by 15, at least. Caves will get game 3 and then get finished in Oakland. It's him vs. 4 All-Stars. I haven't played basketball in any competitive sense in almost 20 years, and I'm pretty sure I can contribute more than these fucking bums.

Quan_the_Antagonist

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Re: Michael Jordan vs. LeBron James
« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2018, 10:47:18 AM »
Yeah, this is so one sided team wise it’s plain for anyone being objective to see.  If anyone is familiar with that cocksucker and pile of biased shit Skip Bayless you know what I’m saying.  I grew up a Jordan fan but the arguments Skip makes are pure cringe and fantasy based.  LeBron has shattered the greater number of titles alone being evidence you’re better. 
« Last Edit: June 03, 2018, 10:10:17 PM by Quan_the_Antagonist »

DarthAlani

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Re: Michael Jordan vs. LeBron James
« Reply #25 on: June 02, 2018, 12:55:21 PM »
I nearly punched through the TV watching the idiocy of JR Smith.

GeneralPresidentSkeletor

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Re: Michael Jordan vs. LeBron James
« Reply #26 on: June 04, 2018, 04:01:44 AM »
Yeah, this is so one sided team wise it’s plain for anyone being objective to see.  If anyone is familiar with that cocksucker and pile of biased shit Skip Bayless you know what I’m saying.  I grew up a Jordan fan but the arguments Skip makes are pure cringe and fantasy based.  LeBron has king of shattered the number of titles being evidence you’re better theories.
Unless you bring up Robert Horry or Bill Russell, then the goalposts get moved and being the G.O.A.T. turns into "Well, Jordan won all of his Finals appearances!". Lakers, Portland & Phoenix were GOOD teams but nowhere near what the Warriors are, and that was before they added Kevin Durant lol. Sonics were pretty good with Kemp & Payton, but that was their best year. Utah was VERY good, but with aging superstars in Stockton & Malone.

Quan_the_Antagonist

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Re: Michael Jordan vs. LeBron James
« Reply #27 on: June 04, 2018, 01:01:33 PM »
Yeah, this is so one sided team wise it’s plain for anyone being objective to see.  If anyone is familiar with that cocksucker and pile of biased shit Skip Bayless you know what I’m saying.  I grew up a Jordan fan but the arguments Skip makes are pure cringe and fantasy based.  LeBron has king of shattered the number of titles being evidence you’re better theories.
Unless you bring up Robert Horry or Bill Russell, then the goalposts get moved and being the G.O.A.T. turns into "Well, Jordan won all of his Finals appearances!". Lakers, Portland & Phoenix were GOOD teams but nowhere near what the Warriors are, and that was before they added Kevin Durant lol. Sonics were pretty good with Kemp & Payton, but that was their best year. Utah was VERY good, but with aging superstars in Stockton & Malone.
I agree and I grew up a Jordan guy.  Most accomplished doesn’t prove you’re the est ever because as you said it doesn’t address opponents, teammates, who was favored, etc.  I believe Jordan was favored in each finals.  The worst finals loss for LeBron was when he melted down against the Mavericks but since then he’s been a force.  Jordan also got bounced many times by great teams in the first round early in his career. 

That being said being the best to me means how you would stack up on your own starting a team or against someone one on one barring centers.  LeBron to me is bigger, stronger, faster, better at rebounding and passing.  Jordan to me is quicker, has better foot movement, a better defender though one could argue LeBron can guard every position, has a better fadeaway, and is more graceful at finishing at the hoop.  This is unmeasurable and a gut feeling but I feel Jordan is mentally tougher.  Both played in different eras and there is no right newer just opinions but years ago I said Jordan hands down and I can now say it’s a grey area.  I still personally favor Jordan but the last few years have shown me how great LeBron is.   This isn’t cut and dry to me anymore and one on one with time traveling technology I can’t imagine anything being more hyped than these two at their apex.

Quan_the_Antagonist

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Re: Michael Jordan vs. LeBron James
« Reply #28 on: June 04, 2018, 02:08:38 PM »
Excellent clip providing context and reasoning behind both double standards used for and against each guy.

https://youtu.be/ZaFfQRAoiEE

MTL76

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Re: Michael Jordan vs. LeBron James
« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2018, 02:59:41 PM »
I would pick Jordan based on mental toughness. With his team down by one point and three seconds on the clock, Jordan wanted the ball Because in his mind, he knew he already had the game won. And when he got the ball, the opposing team knew it as well.

LeBron is still phenomenal and he just doesn’t have the same level of teammates as Jordan.


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