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We are Venom!

AP

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Re: We are Venom!
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2018, 08:32:48 AM »
Yeah, Hardy is a good choice, but removing Venom from the Spider-Man mythos and the MCU in general is a huge mistake.  It now turns into a typical sci-fi movie.  The fact that this movie was announced, wirtten, cast, and shot in a few months is also concerning.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2018, 08:35:15 AM by AP »

The Shuruku Demon

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Re: We are Venom!
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2018, 08:54:47 AM »
Ideally, it would've been cool for the symbiote to be introduced as a new costume for Spidey in an Avengers movie, followed by a Spider-Man sequel with Venom as the main villain, before Venom got his own film. But it's all been spoiled by the various licenses being split between Marvel and Sony.

AP

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Re: We are Venom!
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2018, 09:04:02 AM »
Ideally, it would've been cool for the symbiote to be introduced as a new costume for Spidey in an Avengers movie, followed by a Spider-Man sequel with Venom as the main villain, before Venom got his own film. But it's all been spoiled by the various licenses being split between Marvel and Sony.

The idea of having an R-rated Venom horror movie actually goes back to the 90's.  Avi Arad really wanted one for some reason.

Thorne

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Re: We are Venom!
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2018, 09:09:23 AM »
Has kind of a Spawn vibe to it.

XerxesTWD

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Re: We are Venom!
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2018, 09:21:42 AM »
I'll be surprised if this is good.

The Shuruku Demon

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Re: We are Venom!
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2018, 09:41:07 AM »
Has kind of a Spawn vibe to it.

Makes sense, since Todd McFarlane almost certainly based Spawn's look on the way he previously drew Venom (although it's possible he already had the Spawn concept in mind prior to Venom's introduction).





Ideally, it would've been cool for the symbiote to be introduced as a new costume for Spidey in an Avengers movie, followed by a Spider-Man sequel with Venom as the main villain, before Venom got his own film. But it's all been spoiled by the various licenses being split between Marvel and Sony.

The idea of having an R-rated Venom horror movie actually goes back to the 90's.  Avi Arad really wanted one for some reason.

I gather it was Arad who pressured Raimi into putting Venom into Spider-Man 3, against his better judgment, which ultimately became the biggest problem with that film (not sure it would've been a classic anyway, but it certainly would've been better with just Harry and Sandman as the villains IMO).

I think you need more than one movie to set Venom up in a way that'd feel right to fans of the comicbook version, and the current MCU with Spidey in the Avengers, and space-faring characters like the Guardians of the Galaxy around as well, is a perfect environment within which to introduce the symbiote and Venom in more or less the same manner they were introduced in the comics. Admittedly, I'm less fussed about Venom getting a movie of his own, because I always felt he was at his best during his early outings as a main Spidey rogue.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2018, 09:43:00 AM by The Shuruku Demon »

AP

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Re: We are Venom!
« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2018, 09:57:28 AM »
I gather it was Arad who pressured Raimi into putting Venom into Spider-Man 3, against his better judgment, which ultimately became the biggest problem with that film
Yeah, Arad/Sony pressured Raimi into including Venom.  Sam loved Sandman and wanted him as the main villain.  Raimi also said he didn't like Venom before doing SM3, so it was never going to end well.

Quote
(not sure it would've been a classic anyway, but it certainly would've been better with just Harry and Sandman as the villains IMO).

Or conversely, left out Sandman and had Harry and Venom as villains.  Both of them and Spider-Man were dealing with their darker sides in the movie, so it makes thematic sense to explore that more.  As awesome as Sandman was, his arc was an odd fit.

Quote
I think you need more than one movie to set Venom up in a way that'd feel right to fans of the comicbook version, and the current MCU with Spidey in the Avengers, and space-faring characters like the Guardians of the Galaxy around as well, is a perfect environment within which to introduce the symbiote and Venom in more or less the same manner they were introduced in the comics. Admittedly, I'm less fussed about Venom getting a movie of his own, because I always felt he was at his best during his early outings as a main Spidey rogue.

Yeah, outside of Lethal Protector, I never dug the anti-hero Venom stories that much.  I prefer him as a bad guy.

The Shuruku Demon

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Re: We are Venom!
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2018, 10:31:55 AM »
(not sure it would've been a classic anyway, but it certainly would've been better with just Harry and Sandman as the villains IMO).

Or conversely, left out Sandman and had Harry and Venom as villains.  Both of them and Spider-Man were dealing with their darker sides in the movie, so it makes thematic sense to explore that more.  As awesome as Sandman was, his arc was an odd fit.

That's a good point; I wasn't keen on the Uncle Ben retcon myself. But as I understand it, Raimi's original plot was based exclusively on Harry and Sandman, so my instinct is that it would've been better to allow him to make his intended film (as he did with the first two films, which turned out well), rather than force him to use a villain he had no affinity for. Also, I liked Church's portrayal of Sandman much more than Grace's portrayal of Brock, and as I said before, you need more than one film to properly set Venom up IMO.

Perhaps the best thing of all would've been to exclude both Venom and Sandman, and place more focus on Harry, since the arc between him and Peter was very effective, and could have carried the film on it's own. Or if any additional padding was needed, you could've had a one-fight-scene-cameo from some other minor villain, rather than bothering to flesh out another character arc for that villain as well.

AP

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Re: We are Venom!
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2018, 10:50:04 AM »
(not sure it would've been a classic anyway, but it certainly would've been better with just Harry and Sandman as the villains IMO).

Or conversely, left out Sandman and had Harry and Venom as villains.  Both of them and Spider-Man were dealing with their darker sides in the movie, so it makes thematic sense to explore that more.  As awesome as Sandman was, his arc was an odd fit.

That's a good point; I wasn't keen on the Uncle Ben retcon myself. But as I understand it, Raimi's original plot was based exclusively on Harry and Sandman, so my instinct is that it would've been better to allow him to make his intended film (as he did with the first two films, which turned out well), rather than force him to use a villain he had no affinity for. Also, I liked Church's portrayal of Sandman much more than Grace's portrayal of Brock, and as I said before, you need more than one film to properly set Venom up IMO.

Perhaps the best thing of all would've been to exclude both Venom and Sandman, and place more focus on Harry, since the arc between him and Peter was very effective, and could have carried the film on it's own. Or if any additional padding was needed, you could've had a one-fight-scene-cameo from some other minor villain, rather than bothering to flesh out another character arc for that villain as well.

I think they wanted to avoid another movie with a single goblin villain.  I get where they're coming from with that.

The Shuruku Demon

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Re: We are Venom!
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2018, 11:30:26 AM »
I think they wanted to avoid another movie with a single goblin villain.  I get where they're coming from with that.

I get it too, from a commercial standpoint. But from an artistic POV, the Harry/Peter dynamic was the best thing about that movie, and the Venom stuff -- which was undoubtedly shoehorned into the film for commercial reasons, first and foremost -- was an unfortunate distraction which lowered the overall quality of the film.

I don't know how a third film with Harry as the sole villain would have fared at the box office, but I think it would've been a better film and one that would've been remembered more fondly than what we got. Even if you left the Sandman stuff in there too, I still think the film would've been remembered more fondly than it is. The Topher Grace Venom is definitely the worst thing about that film, for me. (Ironically though, Grace might've been a better Peter Parker than Tobey Maguire. And Ashton Kutcher could've been a pretty good Flash Thompson, come to think of it.)
« Last Edit: April 24, 2018, 11:52:13 AM by The Shuruku Demon »

-K-M-

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Re: We are Venom!
« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2018, 12:38:04 PM »
Official trailer is released

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u9Mv98Gr5pY

Woof! Wasn’t a huge fan of that

Uhtceare

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Re: We are Venom!
« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2018, 12:43:25 PM »
The old reason for the clash could still work with a little modification, depending on how the movie ends. For example, cut to a year after the Venom movie. Brock has assumed a false identity and is working peacefully in the same building as Parker. Parker discovers who he is and, only knowing him from the propaganda of the Venom movie villain, thinks Brock is a villain. Parker turns him in, completely destroying Brock's new life. Brock, already struggling with the symbiotes aggressive urges, becomes furious and vengeful.

Of course, all this depends heavily on how the Venom movie ends, but it is reasonably close to the original reason for Brock's hatred.

Bandido

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Re: We are Venom!
« Reply #27 on: April 24, 2018, 12:56:17 PM »
I was with you until Kutcher as Venom.

The Shuruku Demon

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Re: We are Venom!
« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2018, 02:22:06 PM »
I was with you until Kutcher as Venom.

I said Flash Thompson, as in the regular high school jock, not Venom. It's not a million miles away from the character Kutcher played on That '70s Show (from what little I saw of it, anyway). My ideal pick for Flash would probably be a young Chris Pratt though.



AP

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Re: We are Venom!
« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2018, 02:42:05 PM »
The old reason for the clash could still work with a little modification, depending on how the movie ends. For example, cut to a year after the Venom movie. Brock has assumed a false identity and is working peacefully in the same building as Parker. Parker discovers who he is and, only knowing him from the propaganda of the Venom movie villain, thinks Brock is a villain. Parker turns him in, completely destroying Brock's new life. Brock, already struggling with the symbiotes aggressive urges, becomes furious and vengeful.

Of course, all this depends heavily on how the Venom movie ends, but it is reasonably close to the original reason for Brock's hatred.

I don't like the modern idea that Peter and Brock are co-workers.  The original concept was that Peter was unrelated to Brock but had ruined his life in an indirect way.