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Punisher vs. WW

The Shuruku Demon

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Re: Punisher vs. WW
« Reply #75 on: April 12, 2018, 03:43:11 PM »
She already explained in comics that she vulnerable to piercing attacks. She is not invulnerable.
The onus now is one writer to explicitly state that  Odinson is invulnerable to piercing damage. As writers who take over (or do other stories onvolving Odinson) don't follow suit unless there is an official statement depicted in the comic (like Busiek somehow indicated).
Is he bullet proof? Personally I see him as bullet resistant but I would not mind him being bullet proof (piercing). However, Marvel should officially states this.
You guys should ask in twitter to get the official response.

You seem to be adopting a rather black & white view on this. Either Thor is outright invulnerable to piercing damage, or he's Wonder Woman level? There are shades of grey in between those two things, and Thor's record against bullets is clearly superior to that of Wonder Woman, which suggests he's above her in that respect, regardless of whether he's outright invulnerable or not. I absolutely don't see him as being as durable as Superman or the Hulk, but he doesn't need to be to be bulletproof, or more bulletproof than Diana at any rate.

fangirl101

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Re: Punisher vs. WW
« Reply #76 on: April 12, 2018, 03:57:32 PM »
She already explained in comics that she vulnerable to piercing attacks. She is not invulnerable.
The onus now is one writer to explicitly state that  Odinson is invulnerable to piercing damage. As writers who take over (or do other stories onvolving Odinson) don't follow suit unless there is an official statement depicted in the comic (like Busiek somehow indicated).
Is he bullet proof? Personally I see him as bullet resistant but I would not mind him being bullet proof (piercing). However, Marvel should officially states this.
You guys should ask in twitter to get the official response.

You seem to be adopting a rather black & white view on this. Either Thor is outright invulnerable to piercing damage, or he's Wonder Woman level? There are shades of grey in between those two things, and Thor's record against bullets is clearly superior to that of Wonder Woman, which suggests he's above her in that respect, regardless of whether he's outright invulnerable or not. I absolutely don't see him as being as durable as Superman or the Hulk, but he doesn't need to be to be bulletproof, or more bulletproof than Diana at any rate.
Her record against energy and blunt force trumps his. Are we just skipping that?

The Captain

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Re: Punisher vs. WW
« Reply #77 on: April 12, 2018, 04:12:45 PM »
Her record against energy and blunt force trumps his. Are we just skipping that?

You can't skip that. The Punisher uses energy attacks too often for that not to be included in his standard gear.


fangirl101

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Re: Punisher vs. WW
« Reply #78 on: April 12, 2018, 04:14:45 PM »
Her record against energy and blunt force trumps his. Are we just skipping that?

You can't skip that. The Punisher uses energy attacks too often for that not to be included in his standard gear.


Explosives and shit. Yup.

The Captain

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Re: Punisher vs. WW
« Reply #79 on: April 12, 2018, 04:26:41 PM »
Her record against energy and blunt force trumps his. Are we just skipping that?

You can't skip that. The Punisher uses energy attacks too often for that not to be included in his standard gear.


Explosives and shit. Yup.

Yup........energy attacks........


The Shuruku Demon

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Re: Punisher vs. WW
« Reply #80 on: April 12, 2018, 09:15:58 PM »
You seem to be adopting a rather black & white view on this. Either Thor is outright invulnerable to piercing damage, or he's Wonder Woman level? There are shades of grey in between those two things, and Thor's record against bullets is clearly superior to that of Wonder Woman, which suggests he's above her in that respect, regardless of whether he's outright invulnerable or not. I absolutely don't see him as being as durable as Superman or the Hulk, but he doesn't need to be to be bulletproof, or more bulletproof than Diana at any rate.

Her record against energy and blunt force trumps his. Are we just skipping that?

It's not really germane to this thread. This isn't an overall durability comparison, this is more of a "Who's more vulnerable to the Punisher's weaponry?" comparison. We've seen Ulik basically tank everything the Punisher could throw at him, and Thor has a much better chance of replicating that than Diana does. No doubt, there are other scenarios where Diana would fare better than Thor, but those other scenarios aren't relevant here.

Commander

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Re: Punisher vs. WW
« Reply #81 on: April 12, 2018, 09:32:54 PM »
She already explained in comics that she vulnerable to piercing attacks. She is not invulnerable.
The onus now is one writer to explicitly state that  Odinson is invulnerable to piercing damage. As writers who take over (or do other stories onvolving Odinson) don't follow suit unless there is an official statement depicted in the comic (like Busiek somehow indicated).
Is he bullet proof? Personally I see him as bullet resistant but I would not mind him being bullet proof (piercing). However, Marvel should officially states this.
You guys should ask in twitter to get the official response.

You seem to be adopting a rather black & white view on this. Either Thor is outright invulnerable to piercing damage, or he's Wonder Woman level? There are shades of grey in between those two things, and Thor's record against bullets is clearly superior to that of Wonder Woman, which suggests he's above her in that respect, regardless of whether he's outright invulnerable or not. I absolutely don't see him as being as durable as Superman or the Hulk, but he doesn't need to be to be bulletproof, or more bulletproof than Diana at any rate.

I have already indicated that I believe Mr Almighty Thor is bullet reistant but not proof unless otherwise stated. Now the argument came about that Diana coukd not take a direct hit to the neck and rage said Thor could.
Do you believe a shot to Thor's neck wouldn't penetrate?

Rage.Of.Olympus

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Re: Punisher vs. WW
« Reply #82 on: April 12, 2018, 09:57:51 PM »
She already explained in comics that she vulnerable to piercing attacks. She is not invulnerable.
The onus now is one writer to explicitly state that  Odinson is invulnerable to piercing damage. As writers who take over (or do other stories onvolving Odinson) don't follow suit unless there is an official statement depicted in the comic (like Busiek somehow indicated).
Is he bullet proof? Personally I see him as bullet resistant but I would not mind him being bullet proof (piercing). However, Marvel should officially states this.
You guys should ask in twitter to get the official response.

You seem to be adopting a rather black & white view on this. Either Thor is outright invulnerable to piercing damage, or he's Wonder Woman level? There are shades of grey in between those two things, and Thor's record against bullets is clearly superior to that of Wonder Woman, which suggests he's above her in that respect, regardless of whether he's outright invulnerable or not. I absolutely don't see him as being as durable as Superman or the Hulk, but he doesn't need to be to be bulletproof, or more bulletproof than Diana at any rate.

I have already indicated that I believe Mr Almighty Thor is bullet reistant but not proof unless otherwise stated. Now the argument came about that Diana coukd not take a direct hit to the neck and rage said Thor could.
Do you believe a shot to Thor's neck wouldn't penetrate?

What do you mean stated otherwise? I posted scans of exactly just that.

It depends on the writer I guess, but Thor has a WAY better chance of having a bullet bouncing off his neck than Wonder Woman does. That much is clear based on the available evidence.

Rage.Of.Olympus

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Re: Punisher vs. WW
« Reply #83 on: April 12, 2018, 09:58:53 PM »
You seem to be adopting a rather black & white view on this. Either Thor is outright invulnerable to piercing damage, or he's Wonder Woman level? There are shades of grey in between those two things, and Thor's record against bullets is clearly superior to that of Wonder Woman, which suggests he's above her in that respect, regardless of whether he's outright invulnerable or not. I absolutely don't see him as being as durable as Superman or the Hulk, but he doesn't need to be to be bulletproof, or more bulletproof than Diana at any rate.

Her record against energy and blunt force trumps his. Are we just skipping that?

It's not really germane to this thread. This isn't an overall durability comparison, this is more of a "Who's more vulnerable to the Punisher's weaponry?" comparison. We've seen Ulik basically tank everything the Punisher could throw at him, and Thor has a much better chance of replicating that than Diana does. No doubt, there are other scenarios where Diana would fare better than Thor, but those other scenarios aren't relevant here.



Titanium knife to the neck and everything.

Commander

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Re: Punisher vs. WW
« Reply #84 on: April 12, 2018, 10:34:39 PM »
She already explained in comics that she vulnerable to piercing attacks. She is not invulnerable.
The onus now is one writer to explicitly state that  Odinson is invulnerable to piercing damage. As writers who take over (or do other stories onvolving Odinson) don't follow suit unless there is an official statement depicted in the comic (like Busiek somehow indicated).
Is he bullet proof? Personally I see him as bullet resistant but I would not mind him being bullet proof (piercing). However, Marvel should officially states this.
You guys should ask in twitter to get the official response.

You seem to be adopting a rather black & white view on this. Either Thor is outright invulnerable to piercing damage, or he's Wonder Woman level? There are shades of grey in between those two things, and Thor's record against bullets is clearly superior to that of Wonder Woman, which suggests he's above her in that respect, regardless of whether he's outright invulnerable or not. I absolutely don't see him as being as durable as Superman or the Hulk, but he doesn't need to be to be bulletproof, or more bulletproof than Diana at any rate.

I have already indicated that I believe Mr Almighty Thor is bullet reistant but not proof unless otherwise stated. Now the argument came about that Diana coukd not take a direct hit to the neck and rage said Thor could.
Do you believe a shot to Thor's neck wouldn't penetrate?

What do you mean stated otherwise? I posted scans of exactly just that.

It depends on the writer I guess, but Thor has a WAY better chance of having a bullet bouncing off his neck than Wonder Woman does. That much is clear based on the available evidence.

Available like getting struck in a vulnerable body part?

Like I said, since its now easy to get to twitter, why not get an official response of Mr Thor being bullet proof as opposed to resistance then pls share with us.
I mean catching bullets is one of your proof also that Thor is bullet proof. Guess Iron Fist is now too.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2018, 10:39:42 PM by Commander »

Rage.Of.Olympus

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Re: Punisher vs. WW
« Reply #85 on: April 12, 2018, 11:22:34 PM »
You asked for a statement of bulletproof support. I posted on the last page scans of Thor giving on panel verbal confirmation of being bullet proof.

You want me to ask a writer? How does that change anything? A writer saying Thor is bullet proof is a lot less conclusive than the current Thor writer and Avengers writer putting into script that he is.

That is a purposefully obtuse statement and has made me realize this convo is in bad faith. You have no desire to get educated on Thor's track record on piercing damage. Jane palmed the bullet directly. We see it shattering against the skin of her palm. She didn't snatch it out of the air like Iron Fist did. She even says it tickles as assault rifles are unloaded on her the previous issue.

Abhilegend

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Re: Punisher vs. WW
« Reply #86 on: April 12, 2018, 11:43:53 PM »
I'd like to see Abhi try and back up his implied claim that Jane Thor is/was physically superior or more durable than Thor Odinson. She failed to demonstrate any physical advantage against him when they fought under Aaron, and even underlined that she had his power -- meaning his strength and durability -- in that scene.

http://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Thor-2014/Issue-4?id=7708#9

Just look at both of their fights with Mangog.

Yes, she looked equal to him initially but then surpassed him in every way.

The first scene with bullets pinging  off her happened two issues after her fight with Thor.


And?
Quote


And has Diana's skin ever withstood bullets or blades in a mainstream DCU comic BTW? As far as I know, it hasn't, but Thor's has, multiple times, as has the skin of both Eric and Jane with Thor's powers (or less than Thor's power, in the case where Eric was Thunderstrike).

http://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Thor-1966/Issue-480?id=8184#2

http://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Thor-1966/Issue-486?id=8190#4

http://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Thor-1998/Issue-82?id=8361#7

http://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Thor-2007/Issue-4?id=8372#13

http://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Marc-Spector-Moon-Knight/Issue-50?id=69767#12

http://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Thunderstrike-1993/Issue-11?id=59401#18

http://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Thor-2014/Issue-6?id=7713#18

http://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Mighty-Thor-2016/Issue-10?id=83418#19

We are specifically talking about Priest. Has Priest shown Thor taking a bullet to the neck better than Diana?

No, but why should we judge Thor's durability by Priest's work alone? He virtually admitted he didn't know the character that well, hence him consulting Busiek for advice on him.


Nobody is saying that we do. It's just Rage insinuating that Diana would've died in Thor's place under Priest.
Quote


Jane's last hurrah was impressive but it was her death bed showing. She also never performed anything that Thor could not accomplish when similarly pushed.

Right.

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-4vCPM5law7s/WjpcFD3jCGI/AAAAAAAAemM/_at6U2aLAdIQXELzpUtm603RbUT2PpzVQCLcBGAs/s1600/021_0006.jpg

Only an idiot like you can see blatant statements like this and come to that conclusion.

Actions speak louder than words, and Jane only managed to stalemate Herc there, which is nothing Thor hasn't done multiple times already. Herc and Thor are old rivals, almost like high school buddies, so we shouldn't be surprised if they trade a few zingers that aren't exactly 100% truthful.

http://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Mighty-Thor-2016/Issue-702?id=127013#4
Right, now it's just a zinger. Was Mangog getting its teeth knocked out a zinger by Mangog, Thor's old buddy?

Commander

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Re: Punisher vs. WW
« Reply #87 on: April 13, 2018, 12:27:54 AM »
You asked for a statement of bulletproof support. I posted on the last page scans of Thor giving on panel verbal confirmation of being bullet proof.

You want me to ask a writer? How does that change anything? A writer saying Thor is bullet proof is a lot less conclusive than the current Thor writer and Avengers writer putting into script that he is.

That is a purposefully obtuse statement and has made me realize this convo is in bad faith. You have no desire to get educated on Thor's track record on piercing damage. Jane palmed the bullet directly. We see it shattering against the skin of her palm. She didn't snatch it out of the air like Iron Fist did. She even says it tickles as assault rifles are unloaded on her the previous issue.

I'm talking about Odinson. Hence the term Mister... unless you think Jane is called Mister.

The Shuruku Demon

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Re: Punisher vs. WW
« Reply #88 on: April 13, 2018, 09:18:37 AM »
You seem to be adopting a rather black & white view on this. Either Thor is outright invulnerable to piercing damage, or he's Wonder Woman level? There are shades of grey in between those two things, and Thor's record against bullets is clearly superior to that of Wonder Woman, which suggests he's above her in that respect, regardless of whether he's outright invulnerable or not. I absolutely don't see him as being as durable as Superman or the Hulk, but he doesn't need to be to be bulletproof, or more bulletproof than Diana at any rate.

I have already indicated that I believe Mr Almighty Thor is bullet reistant but not proof unless otherwise stated. Now the argument came about that Diana coukd not take a direct hit to the neck and rage said Thor could.
Do you believe a shot to Thor's neck wouldn't penetrate?

Under Aaron, I think bullets would bounce off Thor's neck. Jane said bullets tickled, which suggests they were like rain drops to her. Under Priest, I assume a bullet would cut Thor's neck since one cut his forehead. But the Priest example is twenty years old, and the overall trend since the early '90s has been towards Thor being bulletproof more often than not.

What do you mean stated otherwise? I posted scans of exactly just that.

It depends on the writer I guess, but Thor has a WAY better chance of having a bullet bouncing off his neck than Wonder Woman does. That much is clear based on the available evidence.

Available like getting struck in a vulnerable body part?

If a character has bulletproof skin in general, they're probably going to have it on their neck as well. The reason the neck is a vulnerable area is because of what lies beneath the skin (like the jugular veins and wind pipe), not because the skin there is easier to cut than the skin on your face or chest or arms.

Like I said, since its now easy to get to twitter, why not get an official response of Mr Thor being bullet proof as opposed to resistance then pls share with us.
I mean catching bullets is one of your proof also that Thor is bullet proof. Guess Iron Fist is now too.

Are you referring to what Jane did? We don't need to factor in her catching a bullet, since she was no-selling bullets to the upper body a page before that, and specifically said they couldn't harm her.

http://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Mighty-Thor-2016/Issue-10?id=83418#19

The Shuruku Demon

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Re: Punisher vs. WW
« Reply #89 on: April 13, 2018, 09:22:18 AM »
The first scene with bullets pinging  off her happened two issues after her fight with Thor.

And?

If they were equal in THOR Vol 4 #4, why would Jane suddenly be superior in #6? Did she get a power-up in #5?

No, but why should we judge Thor's durability by Priest's work alone? He virtually admitted he didn't know the character that well, hence him consulting Busiek for advice on him.

Nobody is saying that we do. It's just Rage insinuating that Diana would've died in Thor's place under Priest.

I'm not specifically defending Rage's point, whether he said that or not. I'm making my own point, which is that Thor's record against bullets is superior to Diana's.

Actions speak louder than words, and Jane only managed to stalemate Herc there, which is nothing Thor hasn't done multiple times already. Herc and Thor are old rivals, almost like high school buddies, so we shouldn't be surprised if they trade a few zingers that aren't exactly 100% truthful.

http://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Mighty-Thor-2016/Issue-702?id=127013#4

Right, now it's just a zinger.

Like I said, actions speak louder than words, and the physical might Jane demonstrated in that scene is consistent with her having Thor level strength. If Aaron wanted to establish that Jane was stronger than Thor, he should've had her beat Herc, not match him.

Was Mangog getting its teeth knocked out a zinger by Mangog, Thor's old buddy?

Mangog got a tooth knocked out by Mjolnir, not Jane's fist. He also got his tail sliced off by Jarnbjorn. Are we to credit that as a strength feat for Thor?