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Should democrats run on gun control as part of thier platform

therock

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Should democrats run on gun control as part of thier platform
« on: February 20, 2018, 12:18:32 PM »
A lot of type of gun control are popular

But people affraid to push it because people who love guns vote on that issue
People who want gun control Dont

It not a guranteed win
Although a lot of guns owners agree to some basic gun control. some stuff by a good majaroty

Have times change..where dems can push these thing. Where young people actully voting on this issue

also that guy on secular talk made a point. This is one of the times they dont actully have the same donors  on this one. So it not like issue where they would piss off thier master. Republicans push harder for stuff they want. Republicans push to repeal obama care 60 times and dont seem to care of some thing unpopular. Dems fail on the bill and like  "Fuck it"
And there not like this a paid to fail thing. Their failing for free.

NeoGreenLantern

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Re: Should democrats run on gun control as part of thier platform
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2018, 02:26:31 PM »
I think part of the problem is that people are very vague about what they want out of gun control. I personally think if someone ran with the idea of using the same system of control as the use for cars people would get on board. Saying you want the same regulations for guns as you have for cars is a pretty easy argument to articulate.

MTL76

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Re: Should democrats run on gun control as part of thier platform
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2018, 03:24:57 PM »
I think part of the problem is that people are very vague about what they want out of gun control.

I agree with this. And I think many regular Americans are as well.

An open-ended discussion among both parties would be best but I expect that we’re just going to get two extreme positions.


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XerxesTWD

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Re: Should democrats run on gun control as part of thier platform
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2018, 03:27:07 PM »
I think part of the problem is that people are very vague about what they want out of gun control.

I agree with this. And I think many regular Americans are as well.

An open-ended discussion among both parties would be best but I expect that we’re just going to get two extreme positions.
I don't even think we'll get the extreme positions. We'll get both sides attacking strawmen when this is a very easy discussion to actually have.

therock

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Re: Should democrats run on gun control as part of thier platform
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2018, 03:48:07 PM »
Well what hold it up is the slippery slope argument. That any change will eventully lead to taking away your guns

And really sure theortecilly it could..but that not reason alone not to do it. You cross those bridge when you come to it

Also the term gun control somehow became Toxic..to saying no guns at all.  Which why if you put it as just gun controll it doesnt poll that great, but different type of gun control does. Because really you sit down with most gun owner...they will agree to something. Which means their for gun control. Just the particulars and name are what fucks them up


Dlbiininja

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Re: Should democrats run on gun control as part of thier platform
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2018, 05:43:59 PM »
Man I've seen so many you're not going to take my guns. Which, no one has said at all. Saw some shit about a gun blessing somewhere.  😒😒😒I don't know what that crazy shit is about.  I'll get that link later.  In fact.  https://www.newschannel5.com/news/national/pennsylvania-church-encourages-worshipers-to-bring-assault-rifles-to-midweek-ceremony




http://wnep.com/2018/02/19/parents-concerned-over-blessing-of-firearms/
« Last Edit: February 20, 2018, 05:50:37 PM by Dlbiininja »
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NeoGreenLantern

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Re: Should democrats run on gun control as part of thier platform
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2018, 06:00:19 PM »
heeeey thats my local news station.

MTL76

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Re: Should democrats run on gun control as part of thier platform
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2018, 08:04:50 PM »
Man I've seen so many you're not going to take my guns. Which, no one has said at all.

That simply isn't true, unless you'd care to specify what you mean by "no one." Have I seen people on the extreme pro-gun side who think there should be absolutely zero regulations? Yes. I've also seen people spout off, both online and IRL, about how nobody should own a gun, period. Part of having an honest discussion is recognizing these people exist. Until this is done, many pro-2A people won't budge.

Bonnie Schaefer of the DNC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbshPA3M0Tw


« Last Edit: February 20, 2018, 08:11:18 PM by MTL76 »


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Dlbiininja

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Re: Should democrats run on gun control as part of thier platform
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2018, 08:32:21 PM »
Man I've seen so many you're not going to take my guns. Which, no one has said at all.

That simply isn't true, unless you'd care to specify what you mean by "no one." Have I seen people on the extreme pro-gun side who think there should be absolutely zero regulations? Yes. I've also seen people spout off, both online and IRL, about how nobody should own a gun, period. Part of having an honest discussion is recognizing these people exist. Until this is done, many pro-2A people won't budge.

Bonnie Schaefer of the DNC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbshPA3M0Tw


I standby what I said.  I haven't seen anyone say take their guns.  And she doesn't say take their guns.  She says she thinks no one should have a gun.  Totally, different and that's her opinion.  That's the same when they cried under Obama's admin when he wanted to enact laws.  And not one time did he ever say let's take their guns or sign or do anything to violate the 2nd.  Which, also allows gun ownership In support a well regulated militia. He did try to enact something for the mentally disturbed to prevent them from getting their hands on weapons though.  Which, if you noticed Trump was even quick to throw out the latest shooters mental health here.  I personally have no issue with responsible gun owners.  And knowing the volatility of human nature in certain circumstances.  Who says they'd even get to use their gun in a shooter situation before they end up a victim themselves.  I was looking at the stats of a good guy with a gun stopping armed criminals.  It was only 3 percent.  That's a pretty pitiful number considering the number of guns owned in our country. 

And here's something else I've always wondered about.  With the right to bear arms we should be able to carry any thing that's a weapon right?  Yet, we do have laws against switchblades, & nun-chuks for example. 
« Last Edit: February 20, 2018, 08:36:29 PM by Dlbiininja »
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MTL76

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Re: Should democrats run on gun control as part of thier platform
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2018, 08:41:58 PM »
I standby what I said.  I haven't seen anyone say take their guns.  And she doesn't say take their guns.  She says she thinks no one should have a gun.  Totally, different and that's her opinion.


And here's something else I've always wondered about.  With the right to bear arms we should be able to carry any thing that's a weapon right?  Yet, we do have laws against switchblades, & nun-chuks for example.

This is why I tend to avoid Second Amendment debates.


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therock

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Re: Should democrats run on gun control as part of thier platform
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2018, 08:52:37 PM »
I dont think the Majorty of guns owner are like that
Again most for some gun control...by like a LARGE amount


But during obama yes..have heard screaming about him taking guns away. And people ads for it.  Havent heard many politians talking about taking all your guns away. It would be political suicide to say such thing

But it not even extreme sides.  Both sides kind of on agreement on a lot of things

But the NRA no longer represent gun owners..they represent gun manufactures
The republicans are brought off
And the dems are pussies

Was watching hardball and they had some Dems on. He ask "Ok what would you do to change gun laws"
And he didnt give an Answer. He just Jump around about both side should work together

And of course Chris ask...come together on what..what would you pushed..would you make the age 21..what
Agian dude wouldnt answer...he was affraid to suggest ANYTHING

Then it was Dems in state like PA, or purple state. All saying they affriad to push the gun issue there.  But even in those state their some gun control stuff that polls well. Sure you dont run as far left as you would in say  NY. But your not going to win running as a republican. They know you have a D in front of your name.

Play offense. Make the other side explain why lessening the restiction on metally ill people getitng weapons is a good thing. Which trump totaly did

There are popular positions. Some polls in the 90's. Reather or not ending slavery was a good thing doesnt poll that high


Gree

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Re: Should democrats run on gun control as part of thier platform
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2018, 05:57:39 PM »
No because again this would alienate a large portion of the country leading to an election like Trump vs Hilary again.

It’s pretty simple, look at Japan. Federally run gun control, mandatory background checks, physical/psychological exam, written test, and weapons/safety training. Ban rifle magazines that hold over a certain amount of rounds. Hunting guns are usually restricted to 3 shots. Keep limits on the number of rounds a magazine hold. Ban modification of weapons to increase rate of fire or magazine capacity. I’ve shot guns all my life and am not anti guns but this is getting crazy.


Have ranges im each state that have automatic rifles under lock and key that people with a license can go shoot if they want. But keep them at the range.

The defense against tyranny and second amendment argument is BS.


Bran Mak Morn

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Re: Should democrats run on gun control as part of thier platform
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2018, 06:37:17 PM »
  I was looking at the stats of a good guy with a gun stopping armed criminals.  It was only 3 percent.  That's a pretty pitiful number considering the number of guns owned in our country. 


That's the thing though, there's so many different statistics available that it can become doubtful what to believe.
A lot of the sources contradict each other so depending if you're pro or anti, you can easily find an article that will back your claim & refute the other.

One (American poster) on KMC finds a stat that claims there's 24 guns per 100 people here in Australia.
But I can only refute that fact based on experience of actually living in this country & never ever personally facing a situation where a firearm was involved NOR do I know anyone else who has been.
Then I come across an article that says 30 000 firearms are imported into Australia every year...mainly for law enforcement & the military so there is actual merit to "24 guns per 100 people".

I'm so tired of arguing with Americans that strict gun control laws actually do work in Australia.
It has for the past 20 years or so but I also do understand that it heavily goes against your 2nd Amendment rights.

At the end of the day, the least of my worries for my family & myself is the least amount of guns on the streets.
The last thing I have to worry about is a mass shooting at my son's school.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2018, 06:05:21 AM by Bran Mak Morn »

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Re: Should democrats run on gun control as part of thier platform
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2018, 10:04:50 PM »
The problem is that the NRA has distorted the 2nd Amendment into something bordering on religious doctrine. All other Constitutional amendments composing the Bill of Rights have common sense legal limits imposed.

Has free speech disappeared because criminal conspiracy charges exist? Or because you can’t yell “BOMB” in a movie theater or make terroristic threats to another person? Or can’t make an outburst in a court of law? Or engage in sexually explicit verbal acts with a minor? No. These limits on speech have widespread support because freedom of speech does not equate to using words for abuse or criminal acts.

And freedom of the press? Disregarding how conservatives show little respect for the press as of late, there are abundant limits on how the press can conduct their business.

Freedom of assembly? Limits. Permits!

But guns? The NRA has fooled a wide swath of the US populace into equating ANY regulation or limit as an Unamerican attack on the Constitution. All we need are legitimate national background checks to get the ball rolling along with some sort of test to get a license/permit. Boom.
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MTL76

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Re: Should democrats run on gun control as part of thier platform
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2018, 10:27:20 PM »
There already are numerous limitations on the Second Amendment, and they vary in severity by state. States are free to adopt stricter gun regulations as their populace desires. I'd sooner that happen than consider any changes to the Second Amendment itself. I don't think a one-size-fits-all approach is going to work. The gun culture in rural Texas is too different from the (lack of) gun culture in some place like New York City.


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