Herochat

Kylo Ren/Rey vs Darth Vader/Darth Sidious

Insane Titan

  • ******
  • 2617
  • +5/-11
    • View Profile
Kylo Ren/Rey vs Darth Vader/Darth Sidious
« on: January 12, 2018, 08:02:16 AM »
Who wins

DarthAlani

  • ******
  • 2433
  • +3/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Kylo Ren/Rey vs Darth Vader/Darth Sidious
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2018, 10:12:16 AM »
Not the new trilogy characters no matter how much Quan cries about it.

Either Vader or Sidious solo.

HalloweenJack

  • ********
  • 8195
  • +25/-7
  • Rowdy AF
    • View Profile
Re: Kylo Ren/Rey vs Darth Vader/Darth Sidious
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2018, 11:48:34 AM »
I could see the two of them taking Vader alone....but not Sidious (at least based on ROTS) and definitely not both of them together

Kallor

  • ******
  • 2325
  • +5/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Kylo Ren/Rey vs Darth Vader/Darth Sidious
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2018, 01:08:14 PM »
It's more likely they could take Vader than Sidious, but still not actually likely imo.  Even just taking movies into account, the Sequel Trilogy shows Rey/Kylo lightsaber duels in line with the OT rather than prequel level speed and complexity, and Rogue One shows us that Vader can use the force in quick and powerful ways.

AP

  • *****
  • 16513
  • +81/-52
    • View Profile
Re: Kylo Ren/Rey vs Darth Vader/Darth Sidious
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2018, 05:29:16 PM »
Rey and Kylo still seem very green despite both of them doing some crazy things with the Force here and there.  They struggled with the Imperial guards who didn't seem to have any Force powers.  In fact, Kylo was nearly killed by the last guard and had to be saved by Rey.  So far, he has lost every duel except for his duel against Finn who barely knew how to use a lightsaber and has no Force powers.

Master

  • ********
  • 8306
  • +38/-24
  • When is a raven a writing desk?
    • View Profile
Re: Kylo Ren/Rey vs Darth Vader/Darth Sidious
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2018, 07:02:05 PM »
Yeah, Kylo still hasn’t finished his training. Snoke said he would do it in TFA, but then Kylo kills him within the next 48 hours.
9 outta 10 Masters are Master.

AP

  • *****
  • 16513
  • +81/-52
    • View Profile
Re: Kylo Ren/Rey vs Darth Vader/Darth Sidious
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2018, 07:03:35 PM »
Yeah, but padawan learners still tend to kick more ass than Kylo.  He's a punk.

Uhtceare

  • *****
  • 1146
  • +14/-5
    • View Profile
Re: Kylo Ren/Rey vs Darth Vader/Darth Sidious
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2018, 09:01:36 PM »
 In fairness, Luke often didn't seem like that big of a deal. He struggled immensely against some random stormtroopers in the speeder-bike fight on Endor. His precog didn't warn him about Jabba being about to drop him in the rancor pit, nor did his TK save him from falling in it.

There's also Obi, an experienced and well trained knight struggling against Jango Fett.

Jedi have a bad habit of struggling against people they should theoretically pwn.

AP

  • *****
  • 16513
  • +81/-52
    • View Profile
Re: Kylo Ren/Rey vs Darth Vader/Darth Sidious
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2018, 09:45:06 PM »
In fairness, Luke often didn't seem like that big of a deal. He struggled immensely against some random stormtroopers in the speeder-bike fight on Endor. His precog didn't warn him about Jabba being about to drop him in the rancor pit, nor did his TK save him from falling in it.

There's also Obi, an experienced and well trained knight struggling against Jango Fett.

Jedi have a bad habit of struggling against people they should theoretically pwn.

That's a fair point about Luke but the Jango bit isn't much of a low showing.  Jango shot and killed a Jedi at the climax and briefly took on Mace before dying.  In the fight mentioned above, Obi-Wan lost his lightsaber and spent the entire time fighting hth against a guy who was armored up and had a ton of weapons still.  Keep in mind, Bobba was his clone and at least in the EU, he was capable of fighting Force-sensitive people as well.

Uhtceare

  • *****
  • 1146
  • +14/-5
    • View Profile
Re: Kylo Ren/Rey vs Darth Vader/Darth Sidious
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2018, 10:09:46 PM »
And Jango shouldn't have been able to beat or even bother any of them, because they have the force. Really, every fight between a force-user and a non-force-user should end the way that "fight" between Ren and Poe did in "The Force Awakens".

Quan_the_Antagonist

  • ********
  • 7329
  • +2/-4
  • Supremacy thy name is Snoke
    • View Profile
Re: Kylo Ren/Rey vs Darth Vader/Darth Sidious
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2018, 10:12:45 PM »
And Jango shouldn't have been able to beat or even bother any of them, because they have the force. Really, every fight between a force-user and a non-force-user should end the way that "fight" between Ren and Poe did in "The Force Awakens".
Myth that a non force user doesn't have the skills to pose a threat to a force sensitive.  That's your perception which doesn't sync with the evidence.

Uhtceare

  • *****
  • 1146
  • +14/-5
    • View Profile
Re: Kylo Ren/Rey vs Darth Vader/Darth Sidious
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2018, 10:21:19 PM »
What do skills matter when you can just grab my whole body with TK? What Snoke was doing to Rey, all but the weakest of Jedi/Sith should do to any non-powered character.

AP

  • *****
  • 16513
  • +81/-52
    • View Profile
Re: Kylo Ren/Rey vs Darth Vader/Darth Sidious
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2018, 10:44:22 PM »
I've maintained for a long time that it's difficult for Force sensitive people to just grab people or larger objects.  Otherwise, they'd fly.  Even when it's Jedi vs Sith, there are very few instances in which one of them picks his opponent up and throws him.  Most of the time, it's just a push.

Quan_the_Antagonist

  • ********
  • 7329
  • +2/-4
  • Supremacy thy name is Snoke
    • View Profile
Re: Kylo Ren/Rey vs Darth Vader/Darth Sidious
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2018, 10:56:52 PM »
What do skills matter when you can just grab my whole body with TK? What Snoke was doing to Rey, all but the weakest of Jedi/Sith should do to any non-powered character.
Snoke is the pinnacle of force power so his dominance doesn't go across the board.  Rey had the same powers but she was helpless before him.  We see Jango vs. Kenobi...Kenobi didn't win.

We see cad bane defeat Kenobi.  Hell, Vader can't even say he beat a Kenobi who wanted to win.