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Star Wars: The Last Jedi - *SPOILERS*

AP

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi - *SPOILERS*
« Reply #210 on: January 12, 2018, 05:45:12 PM »
Abrams likes hinting at shit more than he likes actually laying a narrative foundation to build on

Also, he's the most mediocre filmaker to ever draw breath

Yeah, the dude is highly overrated.  I used to be on the Abrams hype train, but almost every project he's ever started has all these mysteries set up that never pay off.  He outright admitted in an interview that he never had an answer for all the shit he set up in Lost and didn't think the show would last long enough for him to bother explaining everything.  Then you have Cloverfield and Super 8 where he set up all this intrigue about the projects and one just ended up being a typical giant monster movie and the other was just a typical alien movie that served as an homage to Spielberg.  Then you have all the shit built up for the new Star Wars that goes nowhere.  It's all typical JJ Abrams.

Master

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi - *SPOILERS*
« Reply #211 on: January 13, 2018, 02:30:35 PM »
Just saw it again. Very enjoyable with a few glaring weaknesses. How did the thief cut a deal that told the FO about the secret Resistance escape plan? Finn and Rose didn’t know it. Poe didn’t even learn it until he woke up on the way out.
9 outta 10 Masters are Master.

Master

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi - *SPOILERS*
« Reply #212 on: January 13, 2018, 02:40:53 PM »
Also Holdo was viciously dumb in this. I didn’t remember this from the first watch, but Poe gave her three opportunities to explain to him and the crew what her plan was. When it gets to the point of a mutiny, you may want to swallow your pride and explain to your top pilot what your plan is.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 06:57:57 PM by Master »
9 outta 10 Masters are Master.

Rynox

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi - *SPOILERS*
« Reply #213 on: January 13, 2018, 03:38:23 PM »
The good

- A visually striking movie, everything was top notch from the designs, (new praetorian guard), sets, animation, (Snoke looked great) special fx, etc. Thankfully it was lighter on obnoxious lens flares, however they still poked their heads in every now and then.

- The praetorian guard were pretty badass, even the way they snapped into battle stances when Kylo stood up in defiance to Snoke

- Despite being mo-capped, the way Snoke moved was believable and cool to watch.

- The lightspeed suicide scene was one of the most stand-out pieces of the movie for me

- Way better than TFA in virtually every way

The bad


- The idea that the resistance is doing even worse, and has far less members now than in the past is kind of mind boggling to me. I know that the latest death star destroyed several planets which were in support of the resistance, but it just makes it seem as if previous victories in movies were moot, because the resistance was just about completely destroyed this time around. Yeah I'm talking about the remaining fifteen, lolol.

They also seemed to have virtually no advancement in tech, or ships (LOL space gravity bombers) so it seems as if the writers don't know how to flesh out the resistance, other than to portray them the exact same way they have been for the last few movies. Really seems lazy...

- Secoundary characters are useless; Rose and Finn has a dumb subplot that resulted in them nearly getting killed. Poe of course is the exception as he had a pretty sick ship battle at the beginning, before being relegated to spinning his wheels for the rest of the film.

The ugly

- Rey is still a huge Mary Sue: she is apparently so adept as a jedi by the end of the movie, that she no longer needs teaching according to Yoda. I'm sorry, what has she learned exactly? She received a lesson and a half from Luke before he stopped, and she instantly learned how to harness control of the force. Such a terrible character, and it's a shame, because I'm sure Daisy Ridley is an awesome actress, but she's a victim of horrible writing. She seemed to more or less hold her own to Snoke's elite praetorian guard just as Kylo did.

- Praetorian guard were awesome in concept, however they seemed to die in almost cartoonish fashion (getting shredded by a fan in the floor, and seeing pieces of their outfit fly up)

- As mentioned by basically everybody, the casual killing of core characters. This was atrocious, and seems to be the philosophy that is being applied- not only in the movie through Kylo "Let the past die" but by how they ungracefully remove the classics. Han was stabbed, and fell off a ledge, Luke just straight up ghosts off-screen, Leia remains to be seen, but I don't have high hopes anymore, Ackbar just gets blown up? If anything the lightspeed suicide scene should have gone to him, it would have been a fitting and badass ending for his character, instead of introducing Holdo for no reason, and then giving it to her.

- Leia flying through space, and apparently not needing to breathe? GOTG got a pass with Starlord doing it (omg spoilers) because he's not completely human, still a bit silly but it worked. With this? It was jarring and didn't fit within the SW universe.

- One of the coolest scenes in the entire movie was Luke seemingly block/dodging all the AT-AT walker fire, this scene's coolness was immediately destroyed completely by making him an astral projection-- huge mistake.

- Killing off Snoke was another mistake and wasted potential, as we know nothing of him, and it no longer matters. Kylo is the only remaining big baddie, and he's not very scary if Rey can already best him in lightsaber combat. I really feel they painted themselves in a corner, and we don't have much to look forward to in the next movie, especially with Luke gone.


Lastly Rey attacking Luke, and even pulling her lighstaber on him was straight-up sith/Anakin behaviour, and was incredibly stupid. She learns nothing, and basically bullies her way around the past two movies.



nu-safado

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi - *SPOILERS*
« Reply #214 on: January 15, 2018, 08:03:56 PM »
Quote
As mentioned by basically everybody, the casual killing of core characters. This was atrocious, and seems to be the philosophy that is being applied- not only in the movie through Kylo "Let the past die" but by how they ungracefully remove the classics. Han was stabbed, and fell off a ledge, Luke just straight up ghosts off-screen, Leia remains to be seen, but I don't have high hopes anymore, Ackbar just gets blown up? If anything the lightspeed suicide scene should have gone to him, it would have been a fitting and badass ending for his character, instead of introducing Holdo for no reason, and then giving it to her.

That bothered the hell out of me

Ackbar - the guy who has been fighting the good fight for over 4 decades, gets killed by causally being commented on offscreen

Holdo just shows up and takes his moment?

The film felt like  a deconstruction of heroism. Johnson went out of his way to crack on the mythologival components that make Star Wars well...Star Wars.

Luke "What am I supposed to do, stand in front of the first order with my laser sword?"
Whaaaattttttttt

Well, kind of.........

I got legitimately excited when Luke shrugged off all the At At fire and I thought this was his Darth Vader Rogue One moment that would have made me forgive all of the film that came before it. When I figured out that he wasn't leaving footprints I knew what Johnson was up to and I knew he was a goner, I felt a sinking feeling in my stomach. It sucked

The whole movie felt like an Elseworlds and I think it has really left the future of Star Wars in an untenable position. I think the best solution going forward is to focus on the KOTOR storyline and forget the new outer rim stories

Uhtceare

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi - *SPOILERS*
« Reply #215 on: January 15, 2018, 08:46:43 PM »
I would have preferred that Leia get to do the spaceship ram. Would have been a perfect send-off for a character who won't be appearing in anymore movies for obvious reasons.

AP

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi - *SPOILERS*
« Reply #216 on: January 15, 2018, 09:04:55 PM »
Yeah, they could have given Leia a heroic death instead of this random new character who was really unlikable.  Now, Leia will die between two movies with no fanfare.  These new Star Wars movies have really shot themselves in the foot.

Even when it comes to the new characters, Daisy Ridely said she didn't want to do anymore Star Wars movies after the next one.  Poe and Finn were sidelined so much in this movie, I'm not sure they can bounce back enough to carry a trilogy on their own.  Who else do they have?  Rose has been described as the new Jar Jar.  If they redeem Kylo in the next movie, I don't think he has enough good will to carry his own trilogy.  They will have to completely do their own thing with an entirely new cast of characters... again... but without any of the familiar faces the fans loved.

Kallor

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi - *SPOILERS*
« Reply #217 on: January 15, 2018, 09:25:15 PM »
I would have gone with the moment where Kylo stops himself from shooting Leia, only for her to get "killed" anyway by another enemy ship.  I think that's a meaningful death scene in service of Kylo's narrative since, given Carrie's death, a great Leia sendoff in the future isn't possible. 

The only issue is that it happens early so Luke and Leia wouldn't have a scene together, but TFA had already ruined the possibility of the original trio together on-screen so *shrug*.  Maybe they could have played around with the footage to use the scene in some other context/place, but they didn't do much with the reunion anyway. 

nu-safado

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi - *SPOILERS*
« Reply #218 on: January 15, 2018, 09:47:13 PM »
The probelm with Leia's sendoff and a lot of what I think was planned for episode 9 was that filming was complete when Carrie Fisher died. I suspect her story arc was a lot bigger in 9 than we thought and she was the one OT character besides Chewie who was going to get real development

Ford wanted out of the series, so his death, although horribly done, wasn't a surprise.

Luke's story arc was tragically awful. His entire arc could have been redeemed by giving him one awesome scene at the end. Even if he defeated the At At's and let Kylo strike him down Obi Wan style, I would have loved it. True to form and his rank misunderstanding of Star Wars in general, Johnson was quoted as saying that Luke's arc ended in ROTJ. Apparently the legions of Star Wars fans who have been fan ficitoning this since 1983 might beg to differ but hey........

Leia was shown to be at the very least a very competent force user and we see her sensing Han's death in TFA and surviving space in TLJ. Episode 9 would have likely teased her character out. As it stands right now it will be awfully hard to writ out a fitting end for her; the deaths of the rest of the OT will look even more grim

I am hopeful at the use of force ghosts. Yoda interacted in the physical world and his scene with Luke was easily the best scene in the movie. I felt real emotion at that scene.

I would be surprised if Luke didn't in some way realize that he could be of more use as a force ghost and he will be able to interact along with the other force ghosts in episode 9. I wouldn't be surprised if Snoke is in wepisdoe 9 as the first dark side force ghost we've seen or if he has been able to jump bodies - though I find that to be a cheap story trick.

I honestly like Kylo Ren a lot, though seeing him become the true villain he coukd be is going to be more difficult now. JJ Abrams has his work cut out for him  just Rey and Kylo isn't enough

As otherwise mentioned, JJ Abrams is a great storyteller in getting intriguing ideas out there but he's a terrible closer - he can't wrap up a story so I don't know what he's going to do here. I didn't trust Treverow but I would seriously cionsider asking Lucas to concept along with someone else writing (Lucas can't write)

Mightily Oats

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi - *SPOILERS*
« Reply #219 on: January 15, 2018, 10:12:30 PM »
I would have gone with the moment where Kylo stops himself from shooting Leia, only for her to get "killed" anyway by another enemy ship.  I think that's a meaningful death scene in service of Kylo's narrative since, given Carrie's death, a great Leia sendoff in the future isn't possible.
That's what I thought they did in light of her real life death, and I really likes it

Then she did the Force thing that I was very meh about.
Quote
The only issue is that it happens early so Luke and Leia wouldn't have a scene together, but TFA had already ruined the possibility of the original trio together on-screen so *shrug*.  Maybe they could have played around with the footage to use the scene in some other context/place, but they didn't do much with the reunion anyway.
Lots of easy ways for them to have a scene together, like maybe even though Luke cut himself off, since they're twins he'd feel her death.

I'd have preferred a psychic conversation while she dies in space over her pulling herself back

Panthergod

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi - *SPOILERS*
« Reply #220 on: January 15, 2018, 11:03:52 PM »
Yeah, they could have given Leia a heroic death instead of this random new character who was really unlikable.  Now, Leia will die between two movies with no fanfare.  These new Star Wars movies have really shot themselves in the foot.

Even when it comes to the new characters, Daisy Ridely said she didn't want to do anymore Star Wars movies after the next one.  Poe and Finn were sidelined so much in this movie, I'm not sure they can bounce back enough to carry a trilogy on their own.  Who else do they have?  Rose has been described as the new Jar Jar.  If they redeem Kylo in the next movie, I don't think he has enough good will to carry his own trilogy.  They will have to completely do their own thing with an entirely new cast of characters... again... but without any of the familiar faces the fans loved.

AND they went out of their way to alienate the fanbase who kept it viable for decades, to boot. Star Wars is done for now anyway.

AP

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi - *SPOILERS*
« Reply #221 on: January 15, 2018, 11:59:48 PM »
Yeah, they could have given Leia a heroic death instead of this random new character who was really unlikable.  Now, Leia will die between two movies with no fanfare.  These new Star Wars movies have really shot themselves in the foot.

Even when it comes to the new characters, Daisy Ridely said she didn't want to do anymore Star Wars movies after the next one.  Poe and Finn were sidelined so much in this movie, I'm not sure they can bounce back enough to carry a trilogy on their own.  Who else do they have?  Rose has been described as the new Jar Jar.  If they redeem Kylo in the next movie, I don't think he has enough good will to carry his own trilogy.  They will have to completely do their own thing with an entirely new cast of characters... again... but without any of the familiar faces the fans loved.

AND they went out of their way to alienate the fanbase who kept it viable for decades, to boot. Star Wars is done for now anyway.

Yeah, Marvel comics has the same problem at the moment.

DarthAlani

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi - *SPOILERS*
« Reply #222 on: January 16, 2018, 02:52:18 PM »
Star Wars is in trouble now. You don't lose over $700 million at the box office and alienate your fanbase unless there is something wrong.  TLJ has the lowest audience scores for a Star Wars film for a reason.

Solo has been almost completely re-shot , there is no promotion for it so far and its undergoing even more reshooting.  I'm not expecting anything from that film.  It's a film no one wants.

XerxesTWD

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi - *SPOILERS*
« Reply #223 on: January 16, 2018, 03:05:05 PM »
I'm interested in a Han Solo film, but probably not the one they came up with.

-K-M-

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi - *SPOILERS*
« Reply #224 on: January 16, 2018, 06:05:07 PM »
'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' Box Office Drops 92% in China

https://www.google.ca/amp/comicbook.com/starwars/amp/2018/01/16/star-wars-the-last-jedi-china-box-office-drop/

This may hurt sales for the next movie. Though still will make a ridic amount