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So, Jerusalem...

Uhtceare

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So, Jerusalem...
« on: December 08, 2017, 01:01:27 PM »
Is it a good or bad thing that Trump has declared Jerusalem to be Israel's capital?

NeoGreenLantern

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Re: So, Jerusalem...
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2017, 02:03:49 PM »
Probably gonna be very bad.

Propeus The Fallen

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Re: So, Jerusalem...
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2017, 02:11:14 PM »
Um, let's see you went against nearly all of our allies and instead of going to negotiations, brokering a deal, maybe getting something out of all of this...nothing.

But hey, maybe things aren't as bad as they...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-42278644





nu-safado

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Re: So, Jerusalem...
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2017, 01:32:05 PM »
It's a stupid continuation of Trump's extended culture war. Oblivious to the real effects of disastrous policy to appeal to a small, group of disenfranchised who would rather get on board a culture war at the cost of breaking down the system that sustains them

I'm a friggin Israeli and I can tell you that this was a dumb move

No one who is really involved with any Middle Eastern policy really believes in a two-state solution at the moment. There are discussions about a sub-state within a state and organizing territories within greater Israel, but most Palestinians are aware that the generation that grew up with the Arab-Israeli wars isn't the generation who is dealing with this crisis now.

The great wars were fought in 67 and 72, most veterans are in their 70's and 80's. The larger Middle East that shaped the conflict no longer exists. Far greater security concerns are shaping Israeli policy. Israel, simply put, doesn't have the luxury of attempting anything that would risk it's Eastern flank or destabilize the region

ISIS has faced a devastating setback military, losing Raqqa and it's military territory. This has created space for Iran to move forces into the Shiite-crescent in Assad's Syria and possibly Lebanon possibly re-opening the Northern front with little to stop a supply chain that could organize Hezbollah into a lethal fighting force.

Israel and Syria have recently agreed to a demilitarized zone; something unthinkable a few years back, to address this issue. Syria doesn't want Israeli's sorties and missions into its territory to fight Iranian proxies and Israel can't afford a Northern front.

This is not even taking into account the internal conflict in Saudi Arabia and it's conflict with Iran, divisions in the sub-Gulkl states, Houthi rebels, shifting alliances, Kurdish referendums, and Turkey;s inevitable movement into the ME sphere

Whatever deal is made now will deal with a ME that will look markedly different in 2 years time. Today's ME looks far different than it did a short 2 years ago

In short, Trump threw a lit match into a barrel of gunpowder to appeal to Christian evangelicals and score another half-point on his approval ratings and throw US policy under the bus. While Rome threatens to spark and burn Trump will rail on about draining the swamp and appealing to the only thing he knows how to do ;appeal to the worst emotions of a shrinking wite, Christian base and pretend he cares about them.

Overall, this likely won't have much effect. The rest of the world can scream and cry but so long as Europe has no military it can make sweeping declarations all day long and be even more useless than it already is. Money and power speak louder. This is just another diplomatic slap in the face which will sadly cause enough conflict to get people killed in uprising, but not enough to cause any real change in anything significant

Trump is a murderer


therock

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Re: So, Jerusalem...
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2017, 02:13:54 PM »
man this is horrible

Listen gun to my head I rather have an israel state then a palenstine state if those the only two choice (which is not)
And diplomaticly probally easier to work with israel

But fuck we least as a country got to at least PRETEND not to be bias. This destroys that illusion.

NeoGreenLantern

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Re: So, Jerusalem...
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2017, 02:54:51 PM »
The perfect solution would make to a Jerusalem a 3 way Christian/Muslim/Jewish safe zone/holy land/tourist attraction separate from Israel and Palestine run by a committee made up of members of all three religions but that would never happen.Why would they want their Holy Land be a place of peace and understanding?

MTL76

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Re: So, Jerusalem...
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2017, 03:26:56 PM »
Israel and the Palestinians need to do a land swap. Israel gets the Gaza Strip, and the Palestinians get an equivalent amount of land contiguous with the West Bank. Then build a wall between the two. Split Jerusalem down the middle and put a wall along the division, like East and West Berlin.

This type of deal should come naturally to a real estate mogul!


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AP

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Re: So, Jerusalem...
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2017, 06:08:38 PM »
Israel and the Palestinians need to do a land swap. Israel gets the Gaza Strip, and the Palestinians get an equivalent amount of land contiguous with the West Bank. Then build a wall between the two. Split Jerusalem down the middle and put a wall along the division, like East and West Berlin.

This type of deal should come naturally to a real estate mogul!

Especially one who really likes walls.

MTL76

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Re: So, Jerusalem...
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2017, 06:27:59 PM »
And the Saudis will pay for it.


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superlurker

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Re: So, Jerusalem...
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2017, 04:30:22 AM »
The perfect solution would make to a Jerusalem a 3 way Christian/Muslim/Jewish safe zone/holy land/tourist attraction separate from Israel and Palestine run by a committee made up of members of all three religions but that would never happen.Why would they want their Holy Land be a place of peace and understanding?

Welcome to 1947-1949.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpus_separatum_(Jerusalem)

superlurker

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Re: So, Jerusalem...
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2017, 04:33:30 AM »
Um, let's see you went against nearly all of our allies and instead of going to negotiations, brokering a deal, maybe getting something out of all of this...nothing.

It's the real Art of the Deal, making America great again. Since he's so great at making deals, this is sure to be part of the negotiating strategy to make that final Middle East deal once and for all.

nu-safado

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Re: So, Jerusalem...
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2017, 01:01:01 AM »
I'm going to go against the grain and say that his declaration was nothing more than a cheap grab at a little love from evangelical voters so he could go through a few more campaign "rallies" and feel some of that election love again

It's essentially a meaningless gesture that will result in anger, deaths and fighting but won't make any signfificant changes - maybe a symbolically moved embasssy at best

Neither the Palestinians nor the Israeli's believe in a real two-state solution and both sides know that the Palestinians can't offer any security guarantees. Jerusalem isn't on the table and really hasn't been since Yasser fucknuts Arafat declined Ehud Barack's offers in the 90's - when peace was a real possibility

There are state within a state solutions, occupation strategies but at the end of the day both Israel and Jordan are paying very close attention to Iranian influence in Syria which i a real threat to both the Hashemites and the Israeli's Peace isn't really a priority nor feasible at present