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The repeal of net neutrality coming?


Master

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Re: The repeal of net neutrality coming?
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2017, 05:45:25 AM »
9 outta 10 Masters are Master.

LiquidSailor

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Re: The repeal of net neutrality coming?
« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2017, 06:14:16 AM »
This faggot goes from shitting in the streets of India and bathing in Ganges shitwater, to shitting on the internet.

DIGUSTING

Propeus The Fallen

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Re: The repeal of net neutrality coming?
« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2017, 09:24:22 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFhT6H6pRWg&feature=youtu.be

There shouldn't be a day where you don't get punched in your smug face!!!

nu-safado

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Re: The repeal of net neutrality coming?
« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2017, 09:44:03 AM »
I'm not sure it will affect smal to mid-size e-commerce start-ups.

It won't slow your site down if you're creating an online e-commerce. blog, web business or anything of the sort straight up. It will possibly affect your business model roll out if it slows down the SEO traffic or mega companies you depend on

It will slow you down significantly if you have a tech start up that needs venture capital finding. Twitter, FB, Uber, Lyft or any other tech start up now have institutional investors who would do whatever it takes to make sure that our mega companies dont change. Irf large seed capital goes to a plucky start-up people will notice

It will affect your ability to use your fave services. Streaming services are multiplying because its harder to get people on cable, they'd rather stream. Owners of content are branching out so that instead of Netflix you'll have: Disney, Warner, Sony etc.......... per franchise

It might make inroads against search engines if other big players want to grab market share - if Microsoft wants to fight Google it might make more sense to pay to slow down certain services versus improving product.

It's bringing back the Bell dynasties before ATT was split up into baby bells and it will make China leappfrog closer to us in the short term. Eventually, this adminsitration will fade into history so let's see what decent humans will do

Propeus The Fallen

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Re: The repeal of net neutrality coming?
« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2017, 01:52:13 PM »
https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/14/fcc-votes-to-repeal-net-neutrality-rules-295500?lo=ap_a1

Well, it still has to go to congress so maybe republicans will decide to not be evil this one time...? :)

MTL76

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Re: The repeal of net neutrality coming?
« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2017, 05:11:35 PM »
Explain it to a non-tech savvy brother who has largely avoided this issue.

Didn’t this net neutrality law only come into being in 2015? How is repealing it going to lead to Armageddon when the Internet was working fine in 2014?

Also, won’t repealing net neutrality promote competition and differential pricing among ISPs, who currently have near-monopolies? Countries like the UK don’t have net neutrality, how are they daring?


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NeoGreenLantern

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Re: The repeal of net neutrality coming?
« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2017, 06:19:55 PM »
Because just prior to the net neutrality regulations companies already started with their bullshit and tricks.

Comcast for example was artificially throttling Netflix for no reason other than the fact they were pushing their own streaming service and wanted to double dip on payments from both the consumer and from the content provider. They made the argument that because a significant amount of traffic was coming form netflix they should also have to pay comcast. This is basically like UPS telling Amazon both Amazon and the customer has to pay for shipping.

Another example was AT&T blocking facetime unless customers pay for a completely separate data outside of their normal one just for that function just because a lot of people used facetime.

Comcast blocking bittorrent which violated net neutrality rules.

Comcast putting data caps on all services outside of their own streaming service.

There was a case where a smaller ISP blocked Vonage because they also offered phone lines and they didn't like the idea of their internet service being used for a competing product.

My next example illustrate what would be a violation of net neutrality rules if it was an ISP. AT&T blocked an abortion group from taking donation via text message. Under net neutrality rules ISP would never be able to block donations for anything but since this was through Verizons cellular network it wasn't beholden to NN rules.

People will make the argument that it gives government control over the internet. When they first released the actual rules I read all 400 pages and maybe I missed some crafty legal jargon but from what I read it doesn't give the government anymore control over the internet than murder laws give the government control over living.

superlurker

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Re: The repeal of net neutrality coming?
« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2017, 06:25:12 PM »
Explain it to a non-tech savvy brother who has largely avoided this issue.

Didn’t this net neutrality law only come into being in 2015? How is repealing it going to lead to Armageddon when the Internet was working fine in 2014?

The reason they regulated it in the first place was because the ISPs were engaging in blackmailing shenanigans like slowing down the speed of certain sites or services such as Netflix unless they paid their "share".

Now the concern is, they are very likely to engage in that type of behavior again. They might want to get some companies to pay for preferential treatment, or bar users from access to certain services unless they pay extra.

Whenever Ajit Pai talks about "innovation" here, this is what he means: That the companies will create solutions that allow them to charge more for existing services.

Quote
Also, won’t repealing net neutrality promote competition and differential pricing among ISPs, who currently have near-monopolies? Countries like the UK don’t have net neutrality, how are they daring?

The UK and the entire EU has net neutrality.

http://berec.europa.eu/eng/netneutrality/

The UK and the EU in general also has a much-better functioning ISP market than the U.S. Net neutrality isn't something that gets in the way of competition.

What gets in the way of competition here is that much of the infrastructure investment is basically a natural monopoly. It's expensive to build out all the cables and stuff that's needed for it to function, so no one is really going to build multiple sets of it, any more than there's a habit of building other competing infrastructure systems. In EU countries, the regulations in place make sure that competing countries can lease parts of the infrastructure at reasonable prices and conditions, which creates effective competition. The U.S. has similar rules with some flaws which the owners used to basically effectively weasel their way out of having to compete, no doubt arguing some nonsense about how government regulation would destroy the "free market."

The fact that the U.S. doesn't have as healthy a market as the EU thanks to the weaker government regulations in the U.S. makes net neutrality rules even more important, because the lack of choice means that if your particular ISP decides to choke or block this or that, you can't switch to a competitor. By removing the net neutrality rules, the ISPs are basically free to pursue practices that will harm consumers but pad their bottom lines. It will do absolutely nothing to undermine their monopolies (because that's tied up with their control of the infrastructure), but it will allow them to create business models that lets them squeeze more money out of people.

And fundamentally, the concept behind net neutrality and the regulation that's being revoked is that (largely unfettered) access to the Internet is a form of utility, like roads, water or electricity, above and beyond a simple product or luxury.

superlurker

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Re: The repeal of net neutrality coming?
« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2017, 06:31:56 PM »
People will make the argument that it gives government control over the internet. When they first released the actual rules I read all 400 pages and maybe I missed some crafty legal jargon but from what I read it doesn't give the government anymore control over the internet than murder laws give the government control over living.

Yeah, this is one of those really bogus and annoying Americanisms that gets mindlessly thrown around. Not only is it false in this case, but even if it were true it also begs the question of whether those same people would rather have the Internet controlled by the government, or by profit-maximizing massive private corporations. Because that would basically be the alternative. It wouldn't magically belong to some pixie-dust realm of "freedom" by being free from the gub'ment.

Net neutrality is basically an anti-control thing. Arguing that it's about government control is like arguing that freedom of speech is government censorship.

NeoGreenLantern

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Re: The repeal of net neutrality coming?
« Reply #25 on: December 14, 2017, 06:36:25 PM »
Oh and to respond to this

Quote
Also, won’t repealing net neutrality promote competition and differential pricing among ISPs, who currently have near-monopolies? Countries like the UK don’t have net neutrality, how are they daring?

No because Net Neutrality doesn't actually regulate pricing. At least not in a way that you can't have a tier pricing system. The most important part is that it forces ISPs to treat all data being transferred the same. So Netflix is treated the same as Hulu, which is treated the same as online game play, which is treated the same as Facebook. I know it sounds like these things should be treated differently but a kilobyte of data is the same no matter where it comes from. ISPs can still have different speeds tiers. So they can have a 25 mbps package or a 100 mbps package they just have to treat all data going over those connections equally.

Also ISPs is a business where its almost impossible to have any real competition once someone moves in. The first person in a town usually has control over the infrastructure which gives them a huge advantage. Then other ISPs have to either build their own, work with the other ISPs to use the infrastructure, or find a different way to work around it. I have a friend who has an ISP start up in nearby city basically using a large wireless network, He had a contract with a sports arena until recently when Service Electric called the arena up and complained they were never allowed to bid. The arena then called him and told him they were cancelling his service because Service Electric is basically threatened to stop airing the sport events from the arena. This may very well be a violation of net neutrality rules but now that doesn't really matter.

MTL76

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Re: The repeal of net neutrality coming?
« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2017, 07:40:41 PM »
Neo and Lurker, thanks for the primer. That was really helpful.

One argument I've heard from people who are against net neutrality is that companies like Netflix, Hulu, Google, Amazon, and other streaming services are bandwidth hogs. Is that not a consideration in charging them more, if there's a finite amount of bandwidth available?


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superlurker

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Re: The repeal of net neutrality coming?
« Reply #27 on: December 14, 2017, 07:55:55 PM »
Neo and Lurker, thanks for the primer. That was really helpful.

One argument I've heard from people who are against net neutrality is that companies like Netflix, Hulu, Google, Amazon, and other streaming services are bandwidth hogs. Is that not a consideration in charging them more, if there's a finite amount of bandwidth available?

They use a lot of bandwidth because a lot of people use them a lot. The idea that they should pay extra for that is sort of like saying that General Motors should pay for road upkeep because they made a lot of the cars that are on the roads.

If there is a shortage of bandwidth, that's because the ISPs haven't invested enough in it. The perverse part here is that by not investing enough in it, they can create a shortage which gives them a reason to say they should be able to charge more for it.

The U.S. lags behind pretty much every civilized country in terms of Internet infrastructure. What's gone wrong in the U.S. in this area is pretty much exactly what Ajit Pai and his cronies are trying to get more of.

NeoGreenLantern

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Re: The repeal of net neutrality coming?
« Reply #28 on: December 14, 2017, 09:06:23 PM »
Lurker covered a lot of what I was going to say. There is basically two parts of the bandwidth problems. 1 you got ISPs selling people data packages they can't handle. Just to make it simple say there is 6 people in a apartment and Comcast sells them all 20mbps packages but the infrastructure they have in the apartment can only handle 100mbps total. Is it netflix's fault the network can't handle everyone in the apartment streaming at the same time? Shouldn't it be on Comcast for promising numbers they can't handle?

But there is an even shadier problem with bandwidth. Comcast wants to be able to give the same apartment 200mbps bandwidth but then allocate 100 of that only for their products. So now you still have the first problem but it's artificial because Comcast wants you to pay for their streampix over Netflix.

Mightily Oats

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Re: The repeal of net neutrality coming?
« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2017, 03:19:13 AM »
bandwidth usage is one of the greatest robberies in recent memory.

There's literally a whatever the fuck, but they charge in increments and act like you're an asshole for only getting half of what you pay.

I have 15 mb/s, but if anything gets 10 I'm beyond lucky, and it takes a 3 hour on hold phone call of bitching to get it to what you pay for, and that lasts maybe a week.

It's a fucking racket, and I can only imagine this horse shit will make shit so much worse for Americans.

But I'm Canadian, and we've spoken out against this shit, so fuck you assholes for fucking your country and shit up so fucking bad in the first place.