Herochat

The Punisher Eps 10-13

Re: The Punisher Eps 10-13
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2017, 10:40:25 AM »
I think the Punisher we get in this series is still early Frank Castle.  He hasn't fully given up his emotions yet, which I think is the right way to go.  As I said in another thread, we can't just start off with cold, emotionally dead Punisher from Garth Ennis.  We can start with the somewhat sympathetic, traumatized war vet we saw in his early Spider-Man and Daredevil appearances, work our way to a the driven man on a mission we saw from Chuck Dixon and other writers form the 80's and 90's, and then come to the Ennis' version who is almost a complete psychopath.  It's similar to people who complained about the violent and unstable Danny Rand in season one of Iron Fist, not remembering that he acted like that in his first few appearances.  Netflix likes their slow burns and so do I.

I agree, and I really, really liked it too for the most part. But people who weren't overly enamoured by the portrayal in Daredevil s2 are going to hate it because if anything he is even more human and emotional here than he was there.

Quote
Why wouldn't he feel an attachment?  Before he went full Punisher, she was the one who had sympathy for him and, in a way, helped him get revenge for his family.  I think for this version of Frank at least, that would mean a lot to him.  In Daredevil, he came off as just a psychopath but softened up once Karen looked into his path and started talking to him about his family.  I think he feels an emotional connection to her.

I'm not saying he shouldn't feel an attachment to her at all. Obviously he would. But it was all a bit... much, wasn't it? The scene with Micro where he loses his shit and compares his relationship with Karen to how Micro feels about his wife and kids? Hmm. The "maybe if things were different..." head touching and moist eyes in the elevator... nah, not having it. He should consider her an ally and someone that he owes a debt too, absolutely. But basically calling her a member of his family and an implied love interest (despite him telling Micro that he has no interest in any other woman) just felt incredibly forced to me.


Cheers.

scourge

  • ********
  • 9308
  • +26/-9
  • Just be pleasant
    • View Profile
Re: The Punisher Eps 10-13
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2017, 11:31:59 AM »
Show was one of the better ones. Good job Marvel.

AP

  • ********
  • 15205
  • +57/-49
    • View Profile
Re: The Punisher Eps 10-13
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2017, 11:42:29 PM »
I think the Punisher we get in this series is still early Frank Castle.  He hasn't fully given up his emotions yet, which I think is the right way to go.  As I said in another thread, we can't just start off with cold, emotionally dead Punisher from Garth Ennis.  We can start with the somewhat sympathetic, traumatized war vet we saw in his early Spider-Man and Daredevil appearances, work our way to a the driven man on a mission we saw from Chuck Dixon and other writers form the 80's and 90's, and then come to the Ennis' version who is almost a complete psychopath.  It's similar to people who complained about the violent and unstable Danny Rand in season one of Iron Fist, not remembering that he acted like that in his first few appearances.  Netflix likes their slow burns and so do I.

I agree, and I really, really liked it too for the most part. But people who weren't overly enamoured by the portrayal in Daredevil s2 are going to hate it because if anything he is even more human and emotional here than he was there.

Quote
Why wouldn't he feel an attachment?  Before he went full Punisher, she was the one who had sympathy for him and, in a way, helped him get revenge for his family.  I think for this version of Frank at least, that would mean a lot to him.  In Daredevil, he came off as just a psychopath but softened up once Karen looked into his path and started talking to him about his family.  I think he feels an emotional connection to her.

I'm not saying he shouldn't feel an attachment to her at all. Obviously he would. But it was all a bit... much, wasn't it? The scene with Micro where he loses his shit and compares his relationship with Karen to how Micro feels about his wife and kids? Hmm. The "maybe if things were different..." head touching and moist eyes in the elevator... nah, not having it. He should consider her an ally and someone that he owes a debt too, absolutely. But basically calling her a member of his family and an implied love interest (despite him telling Micro that he has no interest in any other woman) just felt incredibly forced to me.


Cheers.

Yeah, essentially calling Karen family is a touch too far, granted.  They had a little bit of PDA going on, too.  By the trailers, I was afraid they were going to have Karen as a love interest, so I'm glad he didn't have one.  For the most part, I was okay with how they interracted.

MTL76

  • ********
  • 9510
  • +1111/-11
  • "What if I know all your secrets, Your Eminence?"
    • View Profile
Re: The Punisher Eps 10-13
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2017, 07:26:15 AM »
I'm really surprised this show is getting such high praise here, especially from people whose reviews I put a lot of stock in. I thought it was almost unwatchable. There weren't just cringe-worthy scenes, there were cringe-worthy plot lines. Frank acted like a Jersey Shore guido having a roid rage ("What's I tell you? what'd I fucking tell you?!?") instead of the Punisher. Frank spending so much time with Micro's wife. Frank and Micro arguing like an old married couple. Frank mooning over Karen. The ridiculous PTSD soldier storyline. The whole major plot line which was as uninteresting as possible. On a show like Agents of SHIELD it would have been two episodes tops.

I hated this show. Nobody had a drop of charisma. I think it was the scene where the PTSD soldier was watching the Foreman-Ali fight with his dad. The dad's dialogue was so bad, so cliched, it just broke me.

Even the choices of music were awful. Either boring or distracting. Watch The Young Pope or The Leftovers and you'll see how music is supposed to be used.

If this show wasn't a Punisher show, and the lead was just a random vigilante, but NOTHING else changed, I think it would get panned.


Minority Shareholder, Combine Honnete Ober Advancer Mercantiles (CHOAM)

The Create A Team / Power Set Combo Compendium

AP

  • ********
  • 15205
  • +57/-49
    • View Profile
Re: The Punisher Eps 10-13
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2017, 08:15:47 AM »
And that Pearl Jam country song!  Amirite?

LiquidSailor

  • *******
  • 6218
  • +52/-149
    • View Profile
Re: The Punisher Eps 10-13
« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2017, 11:02:59 AM »
I'm really surprised this show is getting such high praise here, especially from people whose reviews I put a lot of stock in. I thought it was almost unwatchable. There weren't just cringe-worthy scenes, there were cringe-worthy plot lines. Frank acted like a Jersey Shore guido having a roid rage ("What's I tell you? what'd I fucking tell you?!?") instead of the Punisher. Frank spending so much time with Micro's wife. Frank and Micro arguing like an old married couple. Frank mooning over Karen. The ridiculous PTSD soldier storyline. The whole major plot line which was as uninteresting as possible. On a show like Agents of SHIELD it would have been two episodes tops.

I hated this show. Nobody had a drop of charisma. I think it was the scene where the PTSD soldier was watching the Foreman-Ali fight with his dad. The dad's dialogue was so bad, so cliched, it just broke me.

Even the choices of music were awful. Either boring or distracting. Watch The Young Pope or The Leftovers and you'll see how music is supposed to be used.

If this show wasn't a Punisher show, and the lead was just a random vigilante, but NOTHING else changed, I think it would get panned.

Agreed.  Bernthal sucks and overall the show wasn't that great.  Microchip, Russo, and Punisher were all changed drastically from their comic counterparts.


And I remember all these faggots complaining about the 04 Punisher movie for far less. 

DIGUSTING

Re: The Punisher Eps 10-13
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2017, 12:24:09 PM »
If this show wasn't a Punisher show, and the lead was just a random vigilante, but NOTHING else changed, I think it would get panned.

I think I'd have liked it even more if it was a new character actually. The only bits I didn't really enjoy were because I was predisposed to think that Castle would act in a certain way rather than the way Netflix Castle does.

For the record I thought the music was brilliant throughout the series.


Cheers.

AP

  • ********
  • 15205
  • +57/-49
    • View Profile
Re: The Punisher Eps 10-13
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2017, 05:04:28 PM »
I'm really surprised this show is getting such high praise here, especially from people whose reviews I put a lot of stock in. I thought it was almost unwatchable. There weren't just cringe-worthy scenes, there were cringe-worthy plot lines. Frank acted like a Jersey Shore guido having a roid rage ("What's I tell you? what'd I fucking tell you?!?") instead of the Punisher. Frank spending so much time with Micro's wife. Frank and Micro arguing like an old married couple. Frank mooning over Karen. The ridiculous PTSD soldier storyline. The whole major plot line which was as uninteresting as possible. On a show like Agents of SHIELD it would have been two episodes tops.

I hated this show. Nobody had a drop of charisma. I think it was the scene where the PTSD soldier was watching the Foreman-Ali fight with his dad. The dad's dialogue was so bad, so cliched, it just broke me.

Even the choices of music were awful. Either boring or distracting. Watch The Young Pope or The Leftovers and you'll see how music is supposed to be used.

If this show wasn't a Punisher show, and the lead was just a random vigilante, but NOTHING else changed, I think it would get panned.

Agreed.  Bernthal sucks and overall the show wasn't that great.  Microchip, Russo, and Punisher were all changed drastically from their comic counterparts.


And I remember all these faggots complaining about the 04 Punisher movie for far less.

The Thomas Jane Punisher is well liked around here.  I loved it.

Bran Mak Morn

  • ******
  • 3827
  • +9/-14
    • View Profile
Re: The Punisher Eps 10-13
« Reply #23 on: November 24, 2017, 07:35:00 AM »
So where exactly did Frank's wife & kids get killed in this series?

Frank has two dreams...one where a lone marine walks into his bedroom & shoots his wife in bed. Then there's the 2nd one where they're all at the dinner table & a group of marines surround them.

Then in the end, you have Russo wanting the final confrontation at the merry go-round for "old time's sake."

-K-M-

  • ******
  • 3895
  • +9/-4
    • View Profile
Re: The Punisher Eps 10-13
« Reply #24 on: November 24, 2017, 08:27:20 AM »
They still got killed at the merry-go-round. The other scenes were his mental state finding peace and then getting it torn away when he least expected it. They were just false memories made by his guilt and loss

“The ponies” is where his family died

Uhtceare

  • ****
  • 836
  • +11/-3
    • View Profile
Re: The Punisher Eps 10-13
« Reply #25 on: November 24, 2017, 09:12:33 AM »


The Thomas Jane Punisher is well liked around here.  I loved it.

Eh, scenes like Janisher rubbing ice-scream on a guys back and pretending it was a blowtorch made me roll my eyes and diminished the movie a lot for me.

AP

  • ********
  • 15205
  • +57/-49
    • View Profile
Re: The Punisher Eps 10-13
« Reply #26 on: November 24, 2017, 09:18:43 AM »
So where exactly did Frank's wife & kids get killed in this series?

Frank has two dreams...one where a lone marine walks into his bedroom & shoots his wife in bed. Then there's the 2nd one where they're all at the dinner table & a group of marines surround them.

Then in the end, you have Russo wanting the final confrontation at the merry go-round for "old time's sake."

Dude, how is it you didn’t tell those were dreams.  I mean... Frank is the “lone marine” who killed his own wife and that other dream involved Micro’s family.

Bran Mak Morn

  • ******
  • 3827
  • +9/-14
    • View Profile
Re: The Punisher Eps 10-13
« Reply #27 on: November 24, 2017, 08:18:48 PM »
I watched some episodes distracted by a room full of people who weren't interested.
Thus I didn't catch on it was Micro's family in the dream.

Just don't know why they didn't show the actual killings in flashback.
Losing his family is pretty pivotal like Bruce always reliving his parents shot in the alley.

AP

  • ********
  • 15205
  • +57/-49
    • View Profile
Re: The Punisher Eps 10-13
« Reply #28 on: November 24, 2017, 08:59:14 PM »
I watched some episodes distracted by a room full of people who weren't interested.
Thus I didn't catch on it was Micro's family in the dream.

Just don't know why they didn't show the actual killings in flashback.
Losing his family is pretty pivotal like Bruce always reliving his parents shot in the alley.

'm guessing for budget reasons.  They kinda do this with a lot of Netflix shows.  They have to say how and why Luke Cage went to prison, for instance, other than being framed.  Then there's Iron Fist where we only get glimpses of K'un L'un and no dragon.

Panthergod

  • *******
  • 6728
  • +36/-73
    • View Profile
Re: The Punisher Eps 10-13
« Reply #29 on: November 25, 2017, 01:48:01 PM »
Louis was a Taxi Driver thematic allusion dealing with the current military ptsd issue and Rightwing extremists that Punisher has become an avatar for IRL. Berenthal looks like DeNiro's illegitimate child. Etc. Pretty obvious.

Great show.