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Battle of the Week: Marvel Ares vs Skurge

Abhilegend

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Re: Battle of the Week: Marvel Ares vs Skurge
« Reply #30 on: November 14, 2017, 08:41:23 AM »
And then he went and had Masterson stalemate Thor for a whole issue and when a lightning backlash happened it stunned both of them equally.

It was their lack of experience which hindered Thor corps IMO.

It was absolutely lack of experience that hindered the Thor Corps, especially Dargo and Eric. That arc was all about their infighting and rashness.

DeFalco couldn't keep straight on where he put Eric. In the earlier issues, like the Gladiator and Ulik fights, Eric looked every bit as strong as the real deal but then Tom called that into question when he had Loki claim that Eric wielded only a fraction of the Thunder God's strength. Eric really struggled with Ulik and others but he handled Annihilus much more easily than Thor himself did.


Oh absolutely. Defalco couldn't write power levels to save his life. He also had Thor oneshot Skurge in Avengers Annual 16.

Also he had Heimdall with Odinpower no sell full power Masterson Thor hitting him with mjolnir in the face while some issues later Eric was fighting with him evenly and then Eric without his strength stunned Loki in Odin's body (swelled his eye like Darkseid). Same Loki in Odin's body banished Heimdall with Odinpower with a gesture.

The writing was a mess.
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Later, a big portion of Eric's strength was taken away, I think when he went to Mephisto's realm and battled Sif ... Shuruku would be able to confirm. That said, he was still able to go toe-to-toe handily with the 30 tons level Sif. Even later, when he fought Thor, he looked fairly even with him, although he said he assumed Thor was stronger than him.


His strength was taken entirely. And he was still stronger than Sif somehow.
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So Eric's strength was all over the place as Thor after the very early days, which is why it's so hard to rank him as Thunderstrike. Shuruku used to estimate 'Strike as about as strong as an Asgardian with Thor's heroic build, so maybe 40-45 tons level but there are showings where he looks a lot higher.
Eric looked at least class 50-60. Mind you Kevin Masterson stunned Mangog with one hit from the same hammer IMO.

The Shuruku Demon

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Re: Battle of the Week: Marvel Ares vs Skurge
« Reply #31 on: November 14, 2017, 12:38:33 PM »
They fought again in Wondy's ongoing and Simon dominated. I don't think Skurge's later showings have been much more impressive, the DeFalco one aside - Thor never really had problems with the Executioner.

Can't find the issue. Issue number?

WONDER MAN #22. "Skurge" and "Amora" were subsequently revealed to be illusions conjured by Mephisto though.



It wasn't a suckerpunch. Skurge sent Hulk flying, koed Namor and was beaten by both Hulk and Namor punching him together.



I forgot it was an energy blast. 

So... Ares getting manhandled by Valkyrie is an epic showing now, eh?

He is said to be taken aback by her strength and it was Enchantress in disguise.

And he was not manhandled by her.

Not Barbara Morris.

Not sure if I'm reading you right, but are you saying that it was a disguised Amora who punched Skurge in your scans? If so, you're mixing up different issues. Amora disguised herself as Valkyrie in AVENGERS #83 ("Valkyrie's" first appearance). She used her magic to recreate the Valkyrie who fought Skurge in DEFENDERS #4, but that was the same Valkyrie who remained with the Defenders as one of their members. And as you correctly point out, Skurge didn't know who she was, and underestimated her.

Also I don't think Ares has ever been given this kind of showing.



Skurge has also defeated Namor in Defenders who always had Ares' number even in modern days.

BTW, you left off the last page here, which revealed that Bill was playing possum in the third scan, in order to spur Eric and Dargo into action.


The Shuruku Demon

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Re: Battle of the Week: Marvel Ares vs Skurge
« Reply #32 on: November 14, 2017, 02:19:00 PM »
And then he went and had Masterson stalemate Thor for a whole issue and when a lightning backlash happened it stunned both of them equally.

It was their lack of experience which hindered Thor corps IMO.

It was absolutely lack of experience that hindered the Thor Corps, especially Dargo and Eric. That arc was all about their infighting and rashness.

DeFalco couldn't keep straight on where he put Eric. In the earlier issues, like the Gladiator and Ulik fights, Eric looked every bit as strong as the real deal but then Tom called that into question when he had Loki claim that Eric wielded only a fraction of the Thunder God's strength.

He said Eric barely wielded a tenth of Thor's strength, but that's hard to swallow, and Eric said he was lying in the same panel. Pretty clear Loki was playing mind games there IMO.



Eric really struggled with Ulik and others but he handled Annihilus much more easily than Thor himself did.

Later, a big portion of Eric's strength was taken away, I think when he went to Mephisto's realm and battled Sif ... Shuruku would be able to confirm. That said, he was still able to go toe-to-toe handily with the 30 tons level Sif.

He actually said he had an advantage in strength, which would put him over 30 tons level going by Sif's OHOTMU ranking, despite being stripped of his "super-strength".





My interpretation of this is that he was stripped of his super-strength by Asgardian standards, and that the base strength of that body was still 30 tons level-plus, consistent with the likes of Balder or Heimdall.

There's precedent for this, because the real Thor was stripped of his "thunder god powers" in a silver age story (which DeFalco was almost certainly drawing inspiration from), but his "natural strength" was still approximately equal to that of Loki.







Even later, when he fought Thor, he looked fairly even with him, although he said he assumed Thor was stronger than him.

Yeah, but the fact that he was assuming it means he didn't know; he hadn't actually experienced Thor's strength yet. Later on in the fight, he says they wield "the exact same power". And near the end, they're shown grappling evenly over Mjolnir, which should take precedence over both statements.

So Eric's strength was all over the place as Thor after the very early days,

The lip service was all over the place, but in terms of practical showings, Eric-Thor was as consistent as the real Thor was under DeFalco.

which is why it's so hard to rank him as Thunderstrike. Shuruku used to estimate 'Strike as about as strong as an Asgardian with Thor's heroic build, so maybe 40-45 tons level but there are showings where he looks a lot higher.

I think Eric-Thor was approximately 35 tons level when he was depowered by Karnilla in THOR #453. It's possible he was at the same level when he later traded Mjolnir in for the Thunderstrike mace, but it wasn't made clear either way. And I suspect other writers perceived him as being stronger than this, regardless of what DeFalco intended.