Herochat

Rape culture is a a real thing or BS

NeoGreenLantern

  • ********
  • 14304
  • +58/-17
    • View Profile
Re: Rape culture is a a real thing or BS
« Reply #30 on: November 03, 2017, 10:45:52 PM »
it depends on what you mean by "avoid being raped" Avoiding certain areas like a dark alley is just sensible. Saying people shouldn't wear certain things because they might be targeted is. Yoga pants are sexy but they aren't consent.

AP

  • ********
  • 14897
  • +50/-48
    • View Profile
Re: Rape culture is a a real thing or BS
« Reply #31 on: November 03, 2017, 10:52:39 PM »
It seems like the argument against rape culture being a thing isn't that there isn't a informal system in place to protect powerful men who use that power to get their rocks off but the term is too flashy and not accurate enough.

Would you say that same system doesn't protect powerful men to screw over the working class in various ways as well?  Would you also agree that the powerful women in this system also use their power to get what they want?

What it comes down to is that powerful people do fucked up things.  The average joe schmoe on the street will not get away with rape and even the very rumor could damage his reputation.

NeoGreenLantern

  • ********
  • 14304
  • +58/-17
    • View Profile
Re: Rape culture is a a real thing or BS
« Reply #32 on: November 03, 2017, 11:21:58 PM »
I agree but I've never seen rape culture as being part of the overall culture, say how things happen in the US, but as something as part of institutionalized power. Something that even comes up on the lowest denominator of power. Sometimes this shit pops up even with local cops or teachers.

Do powerful men use the same power to screw people over in other ways? Yes. Does that somehow negate the rapey side of it? No. It also doesn't mean all powerful men do both either. Some might   only abuse their power sexually. Some might abuse their power financially. Women focus on rape and harassment probably because thats the side of power abuse they have to deal with the most.

AP

  • ********
  • 14897
  • +50/-48
    • View Profile
Re: Rape culture is a a real thing or BS
« Reply #33 on: November 03, 2017, 11:39:33 PM »
I agree but I've never seen rape culture as being part of the overall culture, say how things happen in the US, but as something as part of institutionalized power. Something that even comes up on the lowest denominator of power. Sometimes this shit pops up even with local cops or teachers.

Some cops and teachers also abuse their power through bribery, violence, favoritism, racism, sexism, etc.  What you are describing is a power imbalance.  And again, when these people are caught, they are sent to prison (although not always, sadly) and it's often reported upon regardless if they go to prison or not.  Being a part of a culture implies it's acceptable and even celebrated.

Quote
Do powerful men use the same power to screw people over in other ways? Yes. Does that somehow negate the rapey side of it? No. It also doesn't mean all powerful men do both either. Some might   only abuse their power sexually. Some might abuse their power financially. Women focus on rape and harassment probably because thats the side of power abuse they have to deal with the most.

Obviously, I'm not saying rape isn't a problem.  It's a horrible thing.  The term "rape culture", however, is a silly buzzword that has implications that do not coincide with reality.

NeoGreenLantern

  • ********
  • 14304
  • +58/-17
    • View Profile
Re: Rape culture is a a real thing or BS
« Reply #34 on: November 03, 2017, 11:44:59 PM »
So that goes back to my original post, it seems to be the problem with the term rape culture is that its a flashy term and not accurate enough.

therock

  • ********
  • 7888
  • +23/-63
    • View Profile
Re: Rape culture is a a real thing or BS
« Reply #35 on: November 03, 2017, 11:48:38 PM »
Rape culture does exist... in many Muslim majority countries.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/egyptian-lawyers-women-wear-ripped-jeans-raped-article-1.3607522

Rape culture is a vague term, but I would assume it means that rape is accepted by at least a sizable portion of the population as something ethically and legally acceptable. That isn't the case in the USA. Rape being difficult to prosecute in some cases does not mean we have a culture that tolerates rape, it means we have a legal system that protects the rights of the accused and provides them with due process.

Men are by far at more risk than women to be the victims of violence.

Quote
Teaching women to avoid getting raped instead of teaching men not to rape

What is wrong with teaching women (and men) how to lower their risk profile? We can simultaneously condemn rapists and punish them, and teach women and men ways to lower (not eliminate) their risk of being the victim of a violent crime. Only a buffoon would consider this blaming the victim. When I take the subway at night*, I don't flash cash or electronics because I want to lower my risk of being mugged. I might still get mugged, but that doesn't mean it's a stupid thing to do. Someone may flash cash and get mugged, and no, they didn't deserve it, but they could have lowered their risk profile.

* in reality, NYC isn't nearly as dangerous as it used to be unless you're going through a few neighborhoods like East New York, or Astoria, where the Track Suit Mafia can strike at whim.

That men more likely to be rape more of a prison thing and even then by other men. doest mean its not bad. would say prison has a rape cutlure. The way we turn a blind eye to it.  And would say the church had a culture of hiding pedofile activies.  Dont mean  they think pedofiles awesome..just that there a culture of it

But your average guy outside of prison...dont walked alone in a parking..worrying they may be rape...or worry about going home alone with a girl could lead to date rape

therock

  • ********
  • 7888
  • +23/-63
    • View Profile
Re: Rape culture is a a real thing or BS
« Reply #36 on: November 03, 2017, 11:52:03 PM »
also those critque on culture is not a critique of all men

any more then question how the church handle the pedofile...is sayig all priest are pedofiles

or cops have an issue with brutality mean all cops are bad

AP

  • ********
  • 14897
  • +50/-48
    • View Profile
Re: Rape culture is a a real thing or BS
« Reply #37 on: November 04, 2017, 12:15:08 AM »
So that goes back to my original post, it seems to be the problem with the term rape culture is that its a flashy term and not accurate enough.

I'll accept that.

Rufio

  • ***
  • 664
  • +1/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Rape culture is a a real thing or BS
« Reply #38 on: November 04, 2017, 03:29:46 PM »
The problem with the phrase "rape culture" is that it means far more than what people are talking about in this thread.

The basic claim is that rape is not an individual crime, but a collective crime that benefits all men by keeping all women in fear and out of power: the equivalent of a Jim Crow-era lynching. The "rape culture" theory says that rapes are mainly not about sexual desire and are almost solely about men wanting to control women. That's why radfems want to "teach boys not to rape" and make them accept ideas like "rape culture." It's a weird notion that rapists aren't committing crimes because they personally want to, but because society has somehow pressured them into it.

It's not a realistic theory. I don't believe there's any evidence that recidivism for rape is reduced by making rapists read feminist theory. However, rapists who are chemically castrated have drastically lower recidivism rates. The evidence suggests that rape is mostly caused by violent individuals who want sex. Steven Pinker's book The Blank Slate had a decent chapter on this.

Currently, US culture does not pressure men into rape or facilitate it. It's really the opposite. For example, almost all US jurisdictions have laws that prevent any questioning of the past sexual history of an alleged rape victim:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_shield_law

You won't find an equivalent law for murder. There are scenarios where, if person A kills person B and claims self defense, person A's lawyer can argue that person B had a history of being the aggressor in fights.  Quite rightfully, accused rapists can't tell a jury they should believe the sex was consensual because the alleged victim was promiscuous.  In my view, this alone shows that the US as a whole has a strong anti-rape culture.

therock

  • ********
  • 7888
  • +23/-63
    • View Profile
Re: Rape culture is a a real thing or BS
« Reply #39 on: November 04, 2017, 05:43:28 PM »
The problem with the phrase "rape culture" is that it means far more than what people are talking about in this thread.

The basic claim is that rape is not an individual crime, but a collective crime that benefits all men by keeping all women in fear and out of power: the equivalent of a Jim Crow-era lynching. The "rape culture" theory says that rapes are mainly not about sexual desire and are almost solely about men wanting to control women. That's why radfems want to "teach boys not to rape" and make them accept ideas like "rape culture." It's a weird notion that rapists aren't committing crimes because they personally want to, but because society has somehow pressured them into it.

It's not a realistic theory. I don't believe there's any evidence that recidivism for rape is reduced by making rapists read feminist theory. However, rapists who are chemically castrated have drastically lower recidivism rates. The evidence suggests that rape is mostly caused by violent individuals who want sex. Steven Pinker's book The Blank Slate had a decent chapter on this.

Currently, US culture does not pressure men into rape or facilitate it. It's really the opposite. For example, almost all US jurisdictions have laws that prevent any questioning of the past sexual history of an alleged rape victim:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_shield_law

You won't find an equivalent law for murder. There are scenarios where, if person A kills person B and claims self defense, person A's lawyer can argue that person B had a history of being the aggressor in fights.  Quite rightfully, accused rapists can't tell a jury they should believe the sex was consensual because the alleged victim was promiscuous.  In my view, this alone shows that the US as a whole has a strong anti-rape culture.

not sure that an equivlant scenarion. Since to be equivlant. The guy has to think the person WANTED to be murdered to be an equilvant. Which would put you in a realm of assisted suicide or mercy killing.  Untill the point the person said "No...dont murder me"  So no still means no in that sitatuins

or it be equivantr if the person thought he was going to be raped, and the only way he thought to stop them is to rape them back

as for power vs it being about sex. Its a mixture of both probally. The power comes from the sexual gratifcation. Sure Cosby could of found women to fucked them and paid for them. It a lot easier to cover up then druging people but its power mixed into. Shame with the harveys of the world

AP

  • ********
  • 14897
  • +50/-48
    • View Profile
Re: Rape culture is a a real thing or BS
« Reply #40 on: November 04, 2017, 06:51:37 PM »
not sure that an equivlant scenarion. Since to be equivlant. The guy has to think the person WANTED to be murdered to be an equilvant. Which would put you in a realm of assisted suicide or mercy killing.  Untill the point the person said "No...dont murder me"  So no still means no in that sitatuins

or it be equivantr if the person thought he was going to be raped, and the only way he thought to stop them is to rape them back

as for power vs it being about sex. Its a mixture of both probally. The power comes from the sexual gratifcation. Sure Cosby could of found women to fucked them and paid for them. It a lot easier to cover up then druging people but its power mixed into. Shame with the harveys of the world

That's not what he said.

Bran Mak Morn

  • ******
  • 3809
  • +9/-14
    • View Profile
Re: Rape culture is a a real thing or BS
« Reply #41 on: November 05, 2017, 09:45:04 PM »
Yeah I think "Rape Culture" is simply a media ploy to glamourise the topic...especially when Hollywood big wigs suddenly make the head lines for it.

But I do think we are all somewhat guilty of both pandering to the topic (of rape) & downplaying it's impact on women & society in general.
I mean just look at The Jungle Room threads.
How many "Bang, Kill, Marry" threads have been posted where we've given our opinions of who we'd literally rape or kill?
We're not actually romancing  about wining,dining & seducing the women we want to bang.

We're not also seeking their consent before posting their images & making lewd comments about their bodies...no matter how you spin the topic of the thread.
We may dislike the paparazzi but that doesn't stop us from downloading the same pics they've taken so we can all intentionally perv candidly on strangers' bodies & intimate moments.

The thing that gets me (& will probably label me a chauvinist) is all the actresses & some actors that are crying foul of being raped or groped x amount of years ago, now vying for the spotlight to see justice done. In most interviews they've claimed they were worried about their careers & then chose not to tell or report a crime against them.
So they made a selfish decision x amount of years ago to look after themselves & let the alleged rapist get away to potentially commit more crimes but now cry foul just because their status in Hollywood is higher than when they were abused.   

AP

  • ********
  • 14897
  • +50/-48
    • View Profile
Re: Rape culture is a a real thing or BS
« Reply #42 on: November 05, 2017, 10:59:50 PM »
How many "Bang, Kill, Marry" threads have been posted where we've given our opinions of who we'd literally rape or kill?

Fuck, marry, kill is played by girls just as much as boys.  It's tacky but what part of that game makes you think it's about rape?  Unless there are posters here who are legit going on about raping celebs and stuff?

Quote
We're not also seeking their consent before posting their images & making lewd comments about their bodies...no matter how you spin the topic of the thread.

If they decide to take nude photos and stuff, how is that not consent to have men look at them or talk about them.  And again, you've never heard women talk about hot actors and stuff?  You think girls don't masturbate to Chris Hemsworth?

Quote
We may dislike the paparazzi but that doesn't stop us from downloading the same pics they've taken so we can all intentionally perv candidly on strangers' bodies & intimate moments.

Now that is fucked up, agreed.  Although male celebs have had nudes leaked as well, it just doesn't get talked about as much.  There are a lot of people who want to see naked bits.

Bran Mak Morn

  • ******
  • 3809
  • +9/-14
    • View Profile
Re: Rape culture is a a real thing or BS
« Reply #43 on: November 05, 2017, 11:40:44 PM »
How many "Bang, Kill, Marry" threads have been posted where we've given our opinions of who we'd literally rape or kill?

Fuck, marry, kill is played by girls just as much as boys.  It's tacky but what part of that game makes you think it's about rape?  Unless there are posters here who are legit going on about raping celebs and stuff?

Quote

Yes, I totally agree "girls play it just as much as boys."
That's why I used the generalised term of "we", implying both HC members & everyone else outside this board.
And let's not forget the fact that we're no longer "boys" here, we're all grown up adults that still indulge in a "tacky" game...wholeheartedly including myself.

There's 3 aspects to the game & only the "Marry" bit implies a consensual Happy ThereAfter.
There's no implication whatsoever that "Fuck" is consensual...it doesn't suggest a romantic dinner before getting to 3rd base. It's simply pure one-sided lust that's often described as wanting to do a degrading act to the person in question.
Whereas you can't claim "Kill" is going to be consensual either. Yet for no apparent reason, we're choosing to kill one person for no other apparent reason just to fuck & marry the other two.

I'm just saying, as the media plays up the term of a "Rape Culture", we're somewhat part of the problem by playing it down.


NeoGreenLantern

  • ********
  • 14304
  • +58/-17
    • View Profile
Re: Rape culture is a a real thing or BS
« Reply #44 on: November 05, 2017, 11:48:10 PM »
That's just silly, Bran. No part of the game implies consent or non-consent. Even the murder part. It's all completely hypothetical. I mean if the question was a real scenario and I got consent from all three people in the scenario including the murder victim I'm still not going through with the kill and i'm pretty sure everyone is on the same page as me. So in the hypothetical I'm pretty sure everyone is working on the idea the fucking is consensual.