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Will Trump go down as the worst president ever?

XerxesTWD

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Re: Will Trump go down as the worst president ever?
« Reply #600 on: September 20, 2018, 08:54:50 AM »
Looking at any country as "just another country" is extremely short-sighted. Looking at CHINA that way is objectively stupid.

I expressed this poorly. What I meant was that since (and before) WTO entry, the West (and the USA in particular) has taken it easy on China. The basic idea was that if we let China abuse the rules, they would eventually become more democratic and more 'like us'. The value proposition was that this would cost us in the short-to-mid term, but ultimately save tons of money by avoiding a second Cold War type situation, which is of course extremely expensive as well as dangerous.
Well, it looks like that strategy did not pan out; so now it's time to take a different approach.
That conflicts with what you were saying before. Trump's policies directly help China grow their economy and their diplomatic relations with other countries. They're more than happy to fill in the gap on the bridges Trump is desperately burning because of his insecurities and ignorance. He's genuinely surprised you can't just threaten to bomb people who don't comply with your wishes.

Pillow Biter

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Re: Will Trump go down as the worst president ever?
« Reply #601 on: September 20, 2018, 10:47:32 AM »
We'll see. Trump has the right idea here, but given Trump be Trump, his may turn out to leave a lot to be desired. He could end up doing the right thing in such a bad way that it would have been better to do nothing at all.
And I can't even put the good stuff all on Trump. History is re-starting again. Even without Trump, it was probably just a matter of time before the USA gave up on treating China with kid gloves, even if we'd had another President.
I'm Canadian and we love to pretend we hate the US, but it's childish. For all the world's complaining about US dominance, there has long been a legitimate question as to whether the US gets as much as it gives in running the world; and I'm sure other President's would have had to face that question, too. Perhaps later than Trump, but maybe with better execution.
Look, I have a huge contrarian streak. It can be a weakness. I'm not trying to defend the Trump presidency on the whole. It's just that at this point there have been so many obvious things to criticize that I find the more interesting question to be "what, if anything, has been GOOD about Trump's Presidency?".
It's more than possible that "Nothing!" really is the answer, but I feel it's a question worth answering. I mean even a broken clock is right twice a day.

XerxesTWD

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Re: Will Trump go down as the worst president ever?
« Reply #602 on: September 20, 2018, 11:38:25 AM »
We'll see. Trump has the right idea here, but given Trump be Trump, his may turn out to leave a lot to be desired. He could end up doing the right thing in such a bad way that it would have been better to do nothing at all.
And I can't even put the good stuff all on Trump. History is re-starting again. Even without Trump, it was probably just a matter of time before the USA gave up on treating China with kid gloves, even if we'd had another President.
I'm Canadian and we love to pretend we hate the US, but it's childish. For all the world's complaining about US dominance, there has long been a legitimate question as to whether the US gets as much as it gives in running the world; and I'm sure other President's would have had to face that question, too. Perhaps later than Trump, but maybe with better execution.
Look, I have a huge contrarian streak. It can be a weakness. I'm not trying to defend the Trump presidency on the whole. It's just that at this point there have been so many obvious things to criticize that I find the more interesting question to be "what, if anything, has been GOOD about Trump's Presidency?".
It's more than possible that "Nothing!" really is the answer, but I feel it's a question worth answering. I mean even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Why are you saying "We'll see." Like it isn't happening right now? You can see it with Japan, Australia, Brazil, the EU, MULTIPLE African Nations...

His policies are BAD for long term success, just like they've been bad for businesses named after him for the past 40 years.

I honestly don't care if you defend Trump. As much as he fucks up, I am positive there are some good things somewhere in his administration. Getting NATO to contribute more is one of them, but vilifying and alienating them will have long term repercussions Russia and China will GLADLY capitalize on.

So long as it doesn't come back to something about Obama and or Hillary(for the billionth time), I'm actually searching for more people with reasoned defenses of his policies.

Dlbiininja

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Re: Will Trump go down as the worst president ever?
« Reply #603 on: September 20, 2018, 11:54:48 AM »
He's definitely the dumbest. 
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6183915/Trump-mocked-saying-Hurricane-Florence-wettest-weve-seen-standpoint-water.html

"...Trump has been mocked after saying that Hurricane Florence was 'one of the wettest we have seen from the standpoint of water'."
My negative Karma correlates to the amount of butthurt I've caused you! 
blowmeuptom.com/   https://www.facebook.com/tomleykisshow/
http://garyanddino.com/ 

NeoGreenLantern

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Re: Will Trump go down as the worst president ever?
« Reply #604 on: September 20, 2018, 12:00:39 PM »
The best words

Pillow Biter

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Re: Will Trump go down as the worst president ever?
« Reply #605 on: September 20, 2018, 12:02:03 PM »
I'm saying these things are hard to judge IMO. Will NATO really contribute more in the end? I don't know. If they do contribute more, was Trump's bombastic approach necessary? We may never know. Trade needed to be tackled, for sure. Did Trump need to pick a fight with everyone, at the same fucking time, I don't know.
I'm not bringing up Obama or Hillary. I'm not even sure what they have to do with this, though I haven't followed the entire thread. Anyways, I'm not really up for a higher octane, aggro-style debate. There's a lot of complexity in trade, economics, and geopolitics; and I'm feeling pretty humbled by it. Nobody has perfect information, and we have much less than those in the know. So for me, I'm waiting to see.
But it's time for nations to gut check and decide where their true interests lie, and to sort out priorities when they have competing interests. I don't think Western Europe or Japan want China to dominate AI, Robotics, or any other of the industries they plan to try to dominate with their China 2025 plan.
And it's time for the major players to reassess what kind of rules we really want to play by; or do we throw out the rulebook altogether? There's something to be said for the strengths of decentralized, bottom-up capitalism over the centralized, state-run approach. But we can't take it on blind faith that the US approach will automatically win out in any situation, especially with the potential stakes of winning the AI race being so high.
Chinese companies are arms of the state. They rarely do anything that is not in China's long-term interest, or at least what China thinks is in their interest. Meanwhile, US companies not only go against the US interest, but they even go against their own long-term interests just to make a nice quarter and pump the CEO's bonus. Even our allies, Japan and South Korea, are neo-mercantilist in their own way, and their companies coordinate more with their governments. And Germany thinks it can export 50% of it's GDP while Southern Europe burns, trapped by the bonds of their own stupidity due to having joined the Euro.
Russia's on the way down, but they can cause a lot of pain as they flounder, though I'm not sure they will ever really be able to fully cooperate with the Chinese.
Maybe we don't need a NATO, a Euro, or an EU. Maybe it's time for new arrangements. History is on the march again.

XerxesTWD

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Re: Will Trump go down as the worst president ever?
« Reply #606 on: September 20, 2018, 12:05:42 PM »
I'm saying these things are hard to judge IMO. Will NATO really contribute more in the end? I don't know. If they do contribute more, was Trump's bombastic approach necessary? We may never know. Trade needed to be tackled, for sure. Did Trump need to pick a fight with everyone, at the same fucking time, I don't know.
I'm not bringing up Obama or Hillary. I'm not even sure what they have to do with this, though I haven't followed the entire thread. Anyways, I'm not really up for a higher octane, aggro-style debate. There's a lot of complexity in trade, economics, and geopolitics; and I'm feeling pretty humbled by it. Nobody has perfect information, and we have much less than those in the know. So for me, I'm waiting to see.
But it's time for nations to gut check and decide where their true interests lie, and to sort out priorities when they have competing interests. I don't think Western Europe or Japan want China to dominate AI, Robotics, or any other of the industries they plan to try to dominate with their China 2025 plan.
And it's time for the major players to reassess what kind of rules we really want to play by; or do we throw out the rulebook altogether? There's something to be said for the strengths of decentralized, bottom-up capitalism over the centralized, state-run approach. But we can't take it on blind faith that the US approach will automatically win out in any situation, especially with the potential stakes of winning the AI race being so high.
Chinese companies are arms of the state. They rarely do anything that is not in China's long-term interest, or at least what China thinks is in their interest. Meanwhile, US companies not only go against the US interest, but they even go against their own long-term interests just to make a nice quarter and pump the CEO's bonus. Even our allies, Japan and South Korea, are neo-mercantilist in their own way, and their companies coordinate more with their governments. And Germany thinks it can export 50% of it's GDP while Southern Europe burns, trapped by the bonds of their own stupidity due to having joined the Euro.
Russia's on the way down, but they can cause a lot of pain as they flounder, though I'm not sure they will ever really be able to fully cooperate with the Chinese.
Maybe we don't need a NATO, a Euro, or an EU. Maybe it's time for new arrangements. History is on the march again.

Why the fuck would you type out an essay that equates to "_____, but I don't know" over and over?

If you don't want to discuss something, don't discuss it.

Pillow Biter

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Re: Will Trump go down as the worst president ever?
« Reply #607 on: September 21, 2018, 01:11:53 AM »
I felt there were lots of areas to discuss in my post, just not many to debate with absolute certainty. At any rate, clearly my current mood and contributions (or non-contributions, as you say) are not suited to the mood and approach of this thread. So I'll move on for now.

Propeus The Fallen

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Re: Will Trump go down as the worst president ever?
« Reply #608 on: September 24, 2018, 02:02:59 AM »
Huh. Apparently Trump told the PM of Spain he should build a wall...for the Sahara Desert.

...Yeah, I don't have a problem with Rosenstein wanting to wear a wire--Trump is insane!!! Not to mention quite possibly the most evil person to ever be president. :)

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/09/22/poor-immigrants-green-cards-trump-836456

Yep. Because he has minorities. How sad is it I read this and go, "well, it's better than locking up children or throwing out refugees who have lost their home?"

https://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/408033-grassley-panel-will-attempt-to-evaluate-new-kavanaugh-allegations

Damn Democrats. It's the Republican's job to withhold information. This is getting in the way of Grassley tweeting about the History Channel not having enough History on it. Seriously. He does that.


Propeus The Fallen

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NeoGreenLantern

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Re: Will Trump go down as the worst president ever?
« Reply #610 on: September 25, 2018, 12:51:28 PM »
https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-laughed-united-nations-un-1137481

Nothing more alpha than having world laugh at you.

ProjectCornDog

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Re: Will Trump go down as the worst president ever?
« Reply #611 on: September 25, 2018, 01:10:55 PM »
https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-laughed-united-nations-un-1137481

Nothing more alpha than having world laugh at you.

Please tell me it's only Trump who goes up on stage to boast about their own country. If we're going to pay into the United Nations shouldn't the only goal to be to resolve conflict around the world?

NeoGreenLantern

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Re: Will Trump go down as the worst president ever?
« Reply #612 on: September 25, 2018, 01:55:15 PM »
He didn't boast about the country. He boasted about himself and his administration. He's been preaching to the choir for so long he forgot he wasn't at one of own rallies.

NeoGreenLantern

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Re: Will Trump go down as the worst president ever?
« Reply #613 on: September 25, 2018, 01:56:14 PM »
Also getting on stage and talking about how great you are isn't going to resolve any world problems.

Propeus The Fallen

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Re: Will Trump go down as the worst president ever?
« Reply #614 on: September 25, 2018, 06:06:53 PM »
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/408285-trump-blasts-democrats-for-playing-a-con-game-with-kavanaugh

Because cause attacking victims is what we want in presidents.

And I don't know what he's upset about. That human piece of crap McConnell will confirm their stupid pick because he'd give the devil a blowjob and spit on baby Jesus if it meant he could get his way.