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Will Trump go down as the worst president ever?

AP

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Re: Will Trump go down as the worst president ever?
« Reply #525 on: August 07, 2018, 03:37:50 PM »
He wants to bring back ASBESTOS because he thinks it's actually a mafia conspiracy.

Holllleeeeee shiiiiiiit.

HalloweenJack

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Re: Will Trump go down as the worst president ever?
« Reply #526 on: August 07, 2018, 05:32:05 PM »
I had to look that one up.


Hell's bells.

therock

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Re: Will Trump go down as the worst president ever?
« Reply #527 on: August 07, 2018, 10:34:04 PM »
That will show those libs

NeoGreenLantern

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Re: Will Trump go down as the worst president ever?
« Reply #528 on: August 07, 2018, 10:36:42 PM »
If you or a loved one have misothelioma you might be entitled to compensation.


Pillow Biter

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Re: Will Trump go down as the worst president ever?
« Reply #530 on: August 08, 2018, 08:06:34 AM »
The U.S. is objectively getting plenty of booty and plunder from its imperial status. It's just that Trump, ironically, is angry at that -- that the U.S. is giving away dollars for physical stuff is "losing" somehow. If Trump has his way, the U.S. will be seeing a lot less imported stuff, which will make the population overall less well off. Of course, for the world as a whole, that's not necessarily a bad thing -- but if Trump manages to change trade patterns as he sees it, it's going to impoverish the U.S., with a lot more sweatshop jobs and a lot less cheap stuff from China.

At the same time, the trade balance isn't nearly as bad as numbers indicate; it's just that the numbers conceal some very real issues, particularly related to large multinational companies that keep their profits and money in places where they don't have to pay much taxes at all. Apple is perhaps the finest example of this -- an American company that makes its products with Chinese workers they pay slave wages, sells its products around the world, and stashes the profit in tax paradises. Essentially, that money is American, but it isn't reflected in the balance of trade, because it's sitting in some nebulous legal limbo.

Meanwhile, the biggest problem with trade isn't that the U.S. is losing, it's that the benefits are so poorly distributed -- benefiting mostly the top 10% of the population, and the top 0.01% most of all. And Trump is enacting policies that will make that *worse*, not better, such as the tax cuts, which is basically the richest people robbing the state and hiding behind a smokescreen of some minor temporary cuts to everyone else. Most recently, the Trump administration was actually looking at ways to give the rich even more cuts by means of a regulatory redefinition that doesn't have to go through Congress.

Trump isn't addressing the real issues at all. He's making them worse, robbing the state on behalf of the wealthy while throwing blame everywhere else except where it actually belongs; with the wealthy elite that is turning the U.S. into Brazil or worse.

Of course, that is also par for the course -- Trump made his fortune by making messes and letting other people pay the bills, or by getting massive tax exemptions, essentially siphoning money off of the government and the people. He really doesn't understand business or trade, because, contrary to his image, he was never involved in actual business. He understands how to leech off of others, though.

There is also, of course, his incredibly outdated focus on the industries of the past. Like steel and coal. Meanwhile, the Chinese for one are very focused on moving up the value chain and becoming world leaders in high tech fields like AI and computing, renewable energy and advanced manufacturing, but Trump is doing fuck all to stop that. No, he's being a useful idiot that focuses on 19th century technology, starting trade wars over steel and making sure coal mines can pollute more and kill their workers faster. Which makes it very clear he's an old man who doesn't understand shit about how the world works today, and he probably never did.

I have studied economics, and trade in particular, as an amateur for many years. The only definitive conclusion I've come to is that economics are incredibly complex, especially on the global scale that currently exists. I am extremely humble in the face of this complexity, and I wish more leaders (Trump included) could publicly share this humility. But humans like certainty from their leaders...

All of your points have merit. GDP is inherently flawed, and the current metrics for trade are also deeply flawed. There are ways in which a trade deficit could be a problem, and ways in which it might not. Nevertheless, on the whole, I do believe that the US current account deficit is a problem as it is currently construed. Mercantilist trade policies are also very dangerous, as you are to a great extent at the mercy of your customers. When the going is good, mercantilism can be very good for a country indeed. There's a reason so many countries pursue such policies. However, at some point the party tends to end, for a variety of reasons. And transforming from an export-based economy to one based on domestic consumption is extremely tricky. If you aren't careful, you can basically undo all the benefits you accrued from years of mercantilism, and you can undo them very quickly over a short, disastrous period. I'm also aware of US hypocrisy on this issue--a hypocrisy the Chinese, who actually study history, are very aware of. When the US needed to to develop, it pretty much did everything to the UK and Europe that China does to the US.

That said, I believe (without undo certainty and while being open to changing my opinion), that the current US trade deficit is a problem. I have no great faith that Trump's approach is the best way to address this issue--it may be the worst. But he is trying. That's something, in my mind.

I also think there is a legitimate debate to be had as to whether the US gets more out of its Imperial status than it puts in to maintaining it.

But all of these are extremely complex issues, and this thread is probably not the best place to go into them all. Or maybe I just lack the gumption at the moment. International trade analysis often makes my head hurt.

Propeus The Fallen

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Re: Will Trump go down as the worst president ever?
« Reply #531 on: August 10, 2018, 10:38:20 AM »
Y'know, funny thing. I had an old computer and one of my idiot cousins, who had no idea what he was doing, thought he could fix it. The damn thing caught on fire. Sometimes doing something when you have no idea what you are doing or have no plan is even worse.

Anyway back to more current Trump doings.


https://www.politico.com/story/2018/08/09/texas-daca-trump-lawsuit-771014

I wonder what's worse, stealing other people's children or trying to deport your own citizens from the only home they ever knew?

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/08/09/melania-trump-parents-us-citizens-770378

So Chain Migration is bad...except for this? No because family based migration is not.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/08/10/trump-nfl-national-anthem-protests-771427

Yep.

And I have two questions? WTF has Trump done to deserve a vacation and how is it his vacation seems like he's still not on vacation? :)

NeoGreenLantern

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Re: Will Trump go down as the worst president ever?
« Reply #532 on: August 10, 2018, 01:49:44 PM »
https://www.rawstory.com/2018/08/russian-state-tv-warns-trump-say-want-support-elections/#.W22iy4NPHms.twitter

This is the catch 22 of catch 22s. The fact Russian state run media is saying they control Trump is pretty damning. At the same time if you use that in an argument someone can say, "well why do you believe Russian state run media."

NeoGreenLantern

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Re: Will Trump go down as the worst president ever?
« Reply #533 on: August 10, 2018, 02:34:43 PM »
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/trump-threatens-to-suspend-protesting-nfl-players-without-pay

Three key points here.

1: this is a good example of the government trying to violate the 1st amendment

2: last time I checked the president isn't in charge of the NFL so this is either new levels of dumb for him or

3: it's to draw attention away from the Mueller investigation heating up

NeoGreenLantern

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Re: Will Trump go down as the worst president ever?
« Reply #534 on: August 10, 2018, 03:18:02 PM »
https://www.businessinsider.com/chris-murphy-yemen-war-school-bus-bombing-2018-8

Or it could be to distract from the US involvement it what certain is not warmongering

Propeus The Fallen

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Re: Will Trump go down as the worst president ever?
« Reply #535 on: August 10, 2018, 05:05:25 PM »
Maybe the White House could offer a bribe?

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/401285-omarosa-says-she-was-offered-hush-money-to-stay-quiet-about-time-at

NFL Player makes valid point about Trump not being upset a frickin' white nationalist rally being held in DC.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/401248-nfl-player-blasts-trump-for-speaking-out-against-player

Yes, it really is a burden protecting animals so they exist.

http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/401250-trump-administration-calls-current-endangered-species-protections-a

And just so you don't forget everyone in the Trump administration is horrible...

https://www.businessinsider.com/wilbur-ross-120-million-grift-allegations-in-bombshell-forbes-report-2018-8

Again, if Obama did one thing in this message or hell, this topic, he would be dragged out and beaten with rocks by The Republicans.


Propeus The Fallen

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Re: Will Trump go down as the worst president ever?
« Reply #537 on: August 12, 2018, 02:01:40 PM »
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/401400-bikers-for-trump-founder-says-he-sells-trump-shirts-made-in-haiti

Eh, I just think it's funny.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/08/11/trump-fbi-sessions-manafort-justice-department-ohr-773546

Don't feel bad for Sessions...he's human garbage. Also he gets to discriminate against races and religions to his heart content and all he as to do is tolerate the temper tantrums of an orange manchild.

Propeus The Fallen

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Propeus The Fallen

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Re: Will Trump go down as the worst president ever?
« Reply #539 on: August 13, 2018, 08:14:06 AM »
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/omarosa-manigault-newman-releases-purported-recording-of-her-white-house-firing/2018/08/12/004d7cc6-9e46-11e8-93e3-24d1703d2a7a_story.html?noredirect=on

Maybe there is a tape about SPPPPPAAACCCEEE FOR--holy crap what did the Russians get when they visited the white house if security is that bad?!?