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That Superman vs. Hal Jordan argument

Rufio

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That Superman vs. Hal Jordan argument
« on: October 12, 2017, 12:12:05 PM »


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In what way can that fight be described as "domination?"


They slam into each other at high speed. They have an even grapple. Hal restrains and knocks Superman down, hits him a couple time and stands over him. Superman gets up and attacks with heat vision. Two panels of GL energy going against HV. Then HV takes over and Superman hits Hal hard enough to break the mind control. Hal had a concussion but wasn't unconscious.


Superman overpowered Hal on the last page of the fight, but it was a competitive fight until then. And Superman added, "I'd hate to feel how hard you hit when you're in your right mind," implying that Hal may not have been at 100% due to the mind control.


Superman looks more powerful than Hal, but the gap looks significantly smaller in this fight than in their first Nu 52 encounter.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 12:07:44 AM by XerxesTWD »

Abhilegend

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Re: Re: New comic stuff worth talking about but not worth its own thread
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2017, 12:51:13 PM »
In what way can that fight be described as "domination?"

They slam into each other at high speed. They have an even grapple. Hal restrains and knocks Superman down, hits him a couple time and stands over him. Superman gets up and attacks with heat vision. Two panels of GL energy going against HV. Then HV takes over and Superman hits Hal hard enough to break the mind control. Hal had a concussion but wasn't unconscious.

Superman overpowered Hal on the last page of the fight, but it was a competitive fight until then. And Superman added, "I'd hate to feel how hard you hit when you're in your right mind," implying that Hal may not have been at 100% due to the mind control.

Superman looks more powerful than Hal, but the gap looks significantly smaller in this fight than in their first Nu 52 encounter.
What? Superman casually takes all all of Hal's attacks who is now more powerful than ever and gave him a concussion while holding back in fear of breaking his neck.

Superman looked a whole level above Hal. He overpowered Hal in energy projection which he has never done and even a total suckerpunch in New 52 didn't give Hal a concussion.

Abhilegend

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Re: Re: New comic stuff worth talking about but not worth its own thread
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2017, 01:02:05 PM »
Here is their fight in Justice League for example.




And this very same writer had Hal become more powerful than Parallax Sinestro and on the same level as the Guardians.


https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-wi1v4ddRtBk/V-t0j0rLmtI/AAAAAAAAARw/vtwcEeJEVDw0x5__-uOwR7jQy27caSLrQCLcB/s1600/03_10.jpg


In every arc since he is shown pretty much one man GLC and even went toe to toe with golems in the last arc who had Highfather on run.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 01:32:53 PM by Abhilegend »

TURBODERP

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Re: Re: New comic stuff worth talking about but not worth its own thread
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2017, 02:25:54 PM »
Looks like Parallax is amping Superman in that though-hence the yellow heat vision. Not really quantifiable...but it'd make sense? And also explain why the heat vision is yellow of all things.

shadowknight

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Re: Re: New comic stuff worth talking about but not worth its own thread
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2017, 02:29:05 PM »
In what way can that fight be described as "domination?"

They slam into each other at high speed. They have an even grapple. Hal restrains and knocks Superman down, hits him a couple time and stands over him. Superman gets up and attacks with heat vision. Two panels of GL energy going against HV. Then HV takes over and Superman hits Hal hard enough to break the mind control. Hal had a concussion but wasn't unconscious.

Superman overpowered Hal on the last page of the fight, but it was a competitive fight until then. And Superman added, "I'd hate to feel how hard you hit when you're in your right mind," implying that Hal may not have been at 100% due to the mind control.

Superman looks more powerful than Hal, but the gap looks significantly smaller in this fight than in their first Nu 52 encounter.
I hate to derail the discussion and turn it into another SM is great thread. Abhi outside of his admitted bias is essentially correct. Hal has been in his right mind b4 and has never beaten SM, that statement was just a sop for Hal fans. On the other hand SM didn't dominate, but it clearly shows SM would have knocked out Hal had the fight continued. Hal has always had problem  with bricks, SM is the premier brick in the DCU and outside of Parallax has always beaten GL so while Hal the premier GL can look good at the end SM will almost always beat him.

shadowknight

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Re: Re: New comic stuff worth talking about but not worth its own thread
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2017, 02:37:00 PM »
Looks like Parallax is amping Superman in that though-hence the yellow heat vision. Not really quantifiable...but it'd make sense? And also explain why the heat vision is yellow of all things.
You need to read the comics. Parallax wasn't upping SM. Hal saw a Parallax SM but it was just a projection from Hector Hammond. SM beat Hal without any amping.

Rufio

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Re: Re: New comic stuff worth talking about but not worth its own thread
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2017, 02:41:59 PM »
In what way can that fight be described as "domination?"

They slam into each other at high speed. They have an even grapple. Hal restrains and knocks Superman down, hits him a couple time and stands over him. Superman gets up and attacks with heat vision. Two panels of GL energy going against HV. Then HV takes over and Superman hits Hal hard enough to break the mind control. Hal had a concussion but wasn't unconscious.

Superman overpowered Hal on the last page of the fight, but it was a competitive fight until then. And Superman added, "I'd hate to feel how hard you hit when you're in your right mind," implying that Hal may not have been at 100% due to the mind control.

Superman looks more powerful than Hal, but the gap looks significantly smaller in this fight than in their first Nu 52 encounter.
What? Superman casually takes all all of Hal's attacks who is now more powerful than ever and gave him a concussion while holding back in fear of breaking his neck.

Superman looked a whole level above Hal. He overpowered Hal in energy projection which he has never done and even a total suckerpunch in New 52 didn't give Hal a concussion.


In what way did Superman "casually" take Hal's attacks? The facial expressions of the non-existent Parallax-Superman were an optical illusion that only Hal could see. All we know is that Superman was knocked down and there's at least a panel of Hal standing over him and lecturing him. 

In the Nu 52 encounter, Superman easily broke Hal's chains and immediately had him in retreat. Hal was worried that he could be killed in that encounter.

Here, Superman ran into Hal at high speed and failed to overpower him. He then grappled with Hal and failed to overpower him. The grapple was broken by Hal restraining him and beating him to the ground.  Those moments of the fight were direct power exchanges that look much better for Hal than any moment in their Nu 52 encounter.

You seem to be inferring far too much from Superman using X-Ray vision to see if Hal had head injuries *after* the mind control was broken. That comment does not logically say anything about whether Superman was holding back more than he usually does usual *before* throwing the punch that broke the mind control.

And you seem to be ignoring Superman's view that Hal would've hit harder if he hadn't been mind controlled.

The only way this could be better for Superman than the Nu 52 fight is if you take the view that doing well against *this* Hal is more impressive in general. Which might be the case. I haven't been reading the comics.

The Captain

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Re: Re: New comic stuff worth talking about but not worth its own thread
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2017, 04:10:18 PM »
So......basically it was a Hal who thinks he's fighting Parallax (and we're seeing this through his POV) vs. a surprised Superman who doesn't really want to hurt Hal as he's not sure what's going on.............

Abhilegend

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Re: Re: New comic stuff worth talking about but not worth its own thread
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2017, 05:15:45 PM »
In what way can that fight be described as "domination?"

They slam into each other at high speed. They have an even grapple. Hal restrains and knocks Superman down, hits him a couple time and stands over him. Superman gets up and attacks with heat vision. Two panels of GL energy going against HV. Then HV takes over and Superman hits Hal hard enough to break the mind control. Hal had a concussion but wasn't unconscious.

Superman overpowered Hal on the last page of the fight, but it was a competitive fight until then. And Superman added, "I'd hate to feel how hard you hit when you're in your right mind," implying that Hal may not have been at 100% due to the mind control.

Superman looks more powerful than Hal, but the gap looks significantly smaller in this fight than in their first Nu 52 encounter.
What? Superman casually takes all all of Hal's attacks who is now more powerful than ever and gave him a concussion while holding back in fear of breaking his neck.

Superman looked a whole level above Hal. He overpowered Hal in energy projection which he has never done and even a total suckerpunch in New 52 didn't give Hal a concussion.


In what way did Superman "casually" take Hal's attacks? The facial expressions of the non-existent Parallax-Superman were an optical illusion that only Hal could see. All we know is that Superman was knocked down and there's at least a panel of Hal standing over him and lecturing him. 


He isn't bloodied or anything.

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In the Nu 52 encounter, Superman easily broke Hal's chains and immediately had him in retreat. Hal was worried that he could be killed in that encounter.


That was a less powerful and less experienced Hal. Wonder Woman broke his constructs as well.

Also Superman didn't give him a concussion essentially holding back and did not fear for killing him with one full power punch.

Quote


Here, Superman ran into Hal at high speed and failed to overpower him. He then grappled with Hal and failed to overpower him. The grapple was broken by Hal restraining him and beating him to the ground.  Those moments of the fight were direct power exchanges that look much better for Hal than any moment in their Nu 52 encounter.


That is merely Hal hallucinating. Superman was trying to calm him down and when he had enough, he essentially oneshots Hal and gives him a concussion.

There was nothing of the sort of overpowering or did you think Superman was giving off yellow light as well?

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You seem to be inferring far too much from Superman using X-Ray vision to see if Hal had head injuries *after* the mind control was broken. That comment does not logically say anything about whether Superman was holding back more than he usually does usual *before* throwing the punch that broke the mind control.


This is such an ass backward logic only you could use it. Superman feared that he could break Hal's neck with one punch and gave him a concussion by equivalent of a love tap.

But you are totally ignoring what happened in actual sense and going by Hal's illusions?

Only you Jimmy, only you.

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And you seem to be ignoring Superman's view that Hal would've hit harder if he hadn't been mind controlled.


That was a simple maybe. Hal wasn't mindcontrolled, he was seeing a hallucination.

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The only way this could be better for Superman than the Nu 52 fight is if you take the view that doing well against *this* Hal is more impressive in general. Which might be the case. I haven't been reading the comics.
You're just an idiot as always. Superman essentially oneshotting Hal isn't better than Superman not oneshotting Hal?

Get out of here idiot.

Abhilegend

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Re: Re: New comic stuff worth talking about but not worth its own thread
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2017, 05:17:20 PM »
So......basically it was a Hal who thinks he's fighting Parallax (and we're seeing this through his POV) vs. a surprised Superman who doesn't really want to hurt Hal as he's not sure what's going on.............
Yeah. Jimmy here thinks Hal was actually overpowering Superman who was trying to beat down Hal or something.

Fucking idiot.

NeoGreenLantern

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Re: Re: New comic stuff worth talking about but not worth its own thread
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2017, 05:23:43 PM »
We actually don't know what happened. Who hit who, what powers we're used, etc, since we only see  the hallucination.

NeoGreenLantern

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Re: Re: New comic stuff worth talking about but not worth its own thread
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2017, 05:24:27 PM »
Except the final punch. We get confirmation on that.

NeoGreenLantern

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Re: Re: New comic stuff worth talking about but not worth its own thread
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2017, 05:26:33 PM »
Also Superman says "I would hate to feel how hard you hit in your right mind." Implying Hal's hits we're not as good as Superman would expect from him.

The Captain

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Re: Re: New comic stuff worth talking about but not worth its own thread
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2017, 07:25:32 PM »
I don't give any credit to Wonder Woman beating Superman when he's fighting like he thinks it's Doomsday. I don't give credit to Superman when Hal's fighting like he thinks it's Parallax.

Rufio

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Re: Re: New comic stuff worth talking about but not worth its own thread
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2017, 07:36:21 PM »
So......basically it was a Hal who thinks he's fighting Parallax (and we're seeing this through his POV) vs. a surprised Superman who doesn't really want to hurt Hal as he's not sure what's going on.............
Yeah. Jimmy here thinks Hal was actually overpowering Superman who was trying to beat down Hal or something.

Fucking idiot.

Please point out where I said "Hal was overpowering Superman" and that "Superman was trying to beat down Hal."

Or admit that you're a liar.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 08:24:34 PM by Rufio »