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Prof. Xavier Vs Batman

Riv1

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Prof. Xavier Vs Batman
« on: October 11, 2017, 12:11:57 AM »


Asking who has been the better mentor.
Keeping it to Xavier's original 5 students (Cyclops, Jean, Beast, Angel, Iceman) and Batman's 4 main Robins (Dick, Jason, Tim, Damien).
Who overall taught their charges best?
Who prepared them best for their missions?
Which of their charges has gone on to the better individual careers?
Which have fallen farthest?
Which have been the best team players?
Which are regarded most highly by their superhuman communities?
Stuff like that.

Thats not a bat. This...is a bat.

Mightily Oats

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Re: Prof. Xavier Vs Batman
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2017, 12:13:41 AM »
Bat training is probably the highest level of martial artists training between superheroes, and probably also the broadest for knowing at least a lot about everything

Riv1

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Re: Prof. Xavier Vs Batman
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2017, 12:19:20 AM »
Bat training is probably the highest level of martial artists training between superheroes, and probably also the broadest for knowing at least a lot about everything
True.

I realize these mentors have trained their charges in different ways for different things, in different circumstances, but i thought it'd be interesting to compare them this way, see what folks thought.
Thanks fir jumping in on this! -thumbs up-
Thats not a bat. This...is a bat.

shadowknight

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Re: Prof. Xavier Vs Batman
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2017, 10:45:01 AM »
Batman wins this hands down.

Batman charges have been in charge of every team out there outside of LSH & Doom Patrol
Batman charges are well thought out throughout the SH community
Batman charges are the best trained & are all omnipath to 1 degree or another

Riv1

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Re: Prof. Xavier Vs Batman
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2017, 12:40:42 AM »
Batman wins this hands down.

Batman charges have been in charge of every team out there outside of LSH & Doom Patrol
Batman charges are well thought out throughout the SH community
Batman charges are the best trained & are all omnipath to 1 degree or another
Neat.
How do you view Xavier?
Thats not a bat. This...is a bat.

shadowknight

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Re: Prof. Xavier Vs Batman
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2017, 09:11:33 AM »
Batman wins this hands down.

Batman charges have been in charge of every team out there outside of LSH & Doom Patrol
Batman charges are well thought out throughout the SH community
Batman charges are the best trained & are all omnipath to 1 degree or another
Neat.
How do you view Xavier?
Part of the problem with Prof X is Marvel has a built in reason to create failures or tragic characters in X-teams and X-characters. Having said that I view Prof X as a mid-lvl failure for the most part, while his student respect him very few has had successful lives outside of the team. Everyone of Batman charges can easily be successful in normal life. To me that's the determining factor as a father figure how well you prepare your children or adopted children for independence.

The Shuruku Demon

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Re: Prof. Xavier Vs Batman
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2017, 09:44:55 AM »
It's surely a hell of a lot easier to make a success out of intelligent, normal-looking guys like Dick Grayson and Tim Drake than it is to do the same with outcasts and freaks like the X-Men, most of whom aren't as smart as those two. Batman's students also usually had the benefit of one-to-one tutoring, whereas Xavier never really had less than five pupils at any one time. Not saying you're wrong to pick Bruce, I just don't think it was remotely a level playing field.

shadowknight

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Re: Prof. Xavier Vs Batman
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2017, 12:05:55 PM »
It's surely a hell of a lot easier to make a success out of intelligent, normal-looking guys like Dick Grayson and Tim Drake than it is to do the same with outcasts and freaks like the X-Men, most of whom aren't as smart as those two. Batman's students also usually had the benefit of one-to-one tutoring, whereas Xavier never really had less than five pupils at any one time. Not saying you're wrong to pick Bruce, I just don't think it was remotely a level playing field.
While you do  have a valid point. Last time I checked Prof X has had yrs more experience than Bruce in teaching & molding his students, plus he also has a PHD in Psychology and is 1 of the best Psychics in the MU. This should neutralize Bruce advantage, finally for the past 12 odd yrs he's had plenty of help from the X-men first class so everything isn't on his shoulders. Yet he has very few success stories, like I said b4 some is done by design due to Marvel  insistence on creating flawed individuals, yet a great deal is based on his poor choices, leadership and precepts.

MTL76

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Re: Prof. Xavier Vs Batman
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2017, 03:31:11 PM »
Xavier teaches superpowered people how to control their powers and use squad tactics.

Batman teaches his trainees a hell of a lot more than that.


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The Shuruku Demon

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Re: Prof. Xavier Vs Batman
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2017, 10:52:08 AM »
While you do  have a valid point. Last time I checked Prof X has had yrs more experience than Bruce in teaching & molding his students, plus he also has a PHD in Psychology and is 1 of the best Psychics in the MU. This should neutralize Bruce advantage,

They're not operating on a remotely level playing field in terms of producing students who can be successful in normal life, and none of Xavier's qualifications and background can change that. It's not as if Bruce is unqualified in the fields he instructs his students in either. Whether it's officially documented on not, he does effectively have doctorates in martial arts, criminology, psychology, etc -- in fact, the instruction he's received from various experts around the world is more wide-ranging than that Xavier would have received, and no lower in quality, since Bruce would only have sought out the best teachers he could find.

finally for the past 12 odd yrs he's had plenty of help from the X-men first class so everything isn't on his shoulders.

The past 12 odd years aren't relevant to this debate, since the OP said this was primarily focused on Xavier's original five students. Not to mention that 12-odd years in real world time is only about 2 or 3 years at most in comic time, too short a period to have much impact on a comparison like this one way or the other. Any new students enrolled during that time wouldn't even have "graduated" yet.

Yet he has very few success stories, like I said b4 some is done by design due to Marvel  insistence on creating flawed individuals, yet a great deal is based on his poor choices, leadership and precepts.

What do you mean by success stories? Students who can go on to succeed in normal life? Is that what Chuck and Bruce were primarily aiming for with their instruction...? I thought Bruce's primary goal was to turn his students into effective crime-fighters -- Dick and Tim don't seem like guys who were likely to become failures in normal life with or without Bruce's tuition. And Xavier's primary goal was to provide a sanctuary for mutants, and help them to come to terms with themselves and their powers, something he's been very effective at. So in terms of what they set out to do, neither Chuck nor Bruce are failiures.

I think you're framing this comparison all wrong in several ways. Number one, you're giving Bruce credit for things Dick and Tim likely would have achieved without him. Two, you're basing the standard of success for Chuck and Bruce on something that likely wasn't the primary goal of their instruction. And three, you're acting like the final product is the measure of success, when a better measure of success for a teacher is how far they progressed their student in the direction they intended.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 11:11:07 AM by The Shuruku Demon »

Almighty Tallest

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Re: Prof. Xavier Vs Batman
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2017, 04:07:00 PM »
Don't most of Bruce's people end up hating or resenting him in some way? Or he fails them spectacularly in some way? Or just treats them like shit?


Mightily Oats

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Re: Prof. Xavier Vs Batman
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2017, 04:15:54 PM »
Don't most of Bruce's people end up hating or resenting him in some way? Or he fails them spectacularly in some way? Or just treats them like shit?
About as often as that story arc resolves itself and everyone is cool again

Nowadays is just about the only time they’ve enacted and stuck to “Batman needs and cares about his allies”

MTL76

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Re: Prof. Xavier Vs Batman
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2017, 05:40:48 PM »
Don't most of Bruce's people end up hating or resenting him in some way? Or he fails them spectacularly in some way? Or just treats them like shit?

Who were you thinking of specifically? Even Jason Todd is on good terms and working with him.


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