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ANTIFA: smash or trash?

therock

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Re: ANTIFA: smash or trash?
« Reply #45 on: September 02, 2017, 03:22:22 PM »
Steve Scalise's shooter was, to my knowledge, never labeled as Antifa. He was a lone wolf nutjob.

The driver who ran the woman over in Charlottesville is directly associated with far Roght/white supremacy groups. The guy in Portland who tried to stab some Muslims in Portland? Lone wolf nutjob.

Far Left agitators get labeled as Antifa when they assemble at events with other Antifa members, come dressed in black clothing and masks as other Antifa members do, and engage in acts of violence and mayhem that are routinely endorsed by Antifa websites and spokespeople. Is Antifa a formal organization with membership dues, rolls, and so on? No. That doesn't allow them to disavow anyone who engages in the activities listed above as not being "real" Antifa.

Do remember a lot of people getting tagged under the BLM banner who wasnt. Even though they on record for speaking out against such violence.

Like they guy who shot those cops. That why I said in this topic you can really only control yourself. Best you can do is yes speak out against when people who say they represent you does something bad. Speak out against them all..but still fight the other side as well

Which is why never took ... "Oh am not a nazi..just marching along side them as an excuse"

MTL76

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Re: ANTIFA: smash or trash?
« Reply #46 on: September 02, 2017, 03:27:26 PM »
So if someone shows up at an Antifa protest, is dressed in black and is wearing a mask, is marching alongside Antifa members, and engages in acts of violence endorsed by Antifa sources (such as they are)... is it acceptable to assume they are Antifa members until demonstrated otherwise?


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XerxesTWD

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Re: ANTIFA: smash or trash?
« Reply #47 on: September 02, 2017, 03:35:52 PM »
I think it is a reasonable assumption.

If they're NOT wearing a mask and/or engaging in violence, I also think it's safe to assume they're just a protestor wearing black.

therock

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Re: ANTIFA: smash or trash?
« Reply #48 on: September 02, 2017, 03:48:40 PM »
So if someone shows up at an Antifa protest, is dressed in black and is wearing a mask, is marching alongside Antifa members, and engages in acts of violence endorsed by Antifa sources (such as they are)... is it acceptable to assume they are Antifa members until demonstrated otherwise?


sure dont think anyone saying otherwise

But if you have a completley seperate incident of just some black dude beating up a white guy while yelling...wouldnt assume it Anifita either

And that not even saying Antifa good

Snake-eyes

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Re: ANTIFA: smash or trash?
« Reply #49 on: September 02, 2017, 06:18:36 PM »
The problem with committing violence against the white-nationalists/Nazis is that it gives them the legal right to use force to defend themselves, you're essentially giving them a get out of jail free card.

Master

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Re: ANTIFA: smash or trash?
« Reply #50 on: September 03, 2017, 08:39:15 AM »
My quick view point: the extreme right and extreme left are both dumb, angry idiots who lump everyone else together as an enemy. Anti-fa isn't as bad as the Neo-Nazis and White Supremecists... yet. But if violence is encouraged or supported because it against a group you don't like, the violence on both sides will continue to grow until maybe one day Anti-fa are the ones to really be worried about. Or until maybe one day the normal right joins the extremist right to "fight back" against the growing threat of violent extremists on the left.
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scourge

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Re: ANTIFA: smash or trash?
« Reply #51 on: September 04, 2017, 10:41:11 AM »
All good points, Master. What in your view is the best way to handle KkK, white-supremacists, neo-nazis, alt-right, etc.? As those groups, for the most part all have members who engage in violent acts, is non-violent resistance the only clear path? It makes sense that it would be.

...Though seeing a neo-Nazi blubber into a camera about how scared he is still scratches that itch. It sends him a message of "did you think you could go around doing this and not have anything bad happen?" Kind of like the kid who runs his mouth too much until someone finally shows him the consequences. I obviously don't want to escalate things and have concerns in that regard, but is there no benefit at all in someone putting the fear in these assholes?

scourge

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Re: ANTIFA: smash or trash?
« Reply #52 on: September 04, 2017, 01:47:29 PM »
Counter point:


MTL76

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Re: ANTIFA: smash or trash?
« Reply #53 on: September 04, 2017, 01:53:11 PM »
IRL, there are groups that can and do put fear into people who engage in violent acts against others: local and federal law enforcement agencies, which is as it should be. That blubbering neo-Nazi wasn't crying because of Antifa, he was crying because he was arrested by cops and is being prosecuted by the local DA. If someone wants to put fear into fascists, become a cop. Just be aware you'll have to put fear into violent Leftist groups as well. Which is, again, as it should be.


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scourge

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Re: ANTIFA: smash or trash?
« Reply #54 on: September 04, 2017, 02:02:18 PM »
Not the biggest legal scholar but does in incitement come into play at all during a "peaceful" neo-Nazi demonstration?
« Last Edit: September 05, 2017, 08:36:29 AM by scourge »

therock

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Re: ANTIFA: smash or trash?
« Reply #55 on: September 04, 2017, 03:19:05 PM »
IRL, there are groups that can and do put fear into people who engage in violent acts against others: local and federal law enforcement agencies, which is as it should be. That blubbering neo-Nazi wasn't crying because of Antifa, he was crying because he was arrested by cops and is being prosecuted by the local DA. If someone wants to put fear into fascists, become a cop. Just be aware you'll have to put fear into violent Leftist groups as well. Which is, again, as it should be.


True. But what happen when the cops become facist. I mean like with the Bundy thing cops dont always come at them when they do something wrong.

Which to me if where going to talk about what entrenches radical right wing groups...that shit entrenchs radical left wing groups.

MTL76

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Re: ANTIFA: smash or trash?
« Reply #56 on: September 04, 2017, 03:28:26 PM »
True. But what happen when the cops become facist. I mean like with the Bundy thing cops dont always come at them when they do something wrong.

That was certainly a fuck up. I'm not ready to tear down our current system because of it. It's a fairly robust system with several checks and balances, and which affords our citizenry a high level of freedom... as long as we're smart enough to stick with it.

But when our government becomes a Fascist state, I promise I'll sign up with the nearest group of Bolshevik freedom fighters. 

Quote
Which to me if where going to talk about what entrenches radical right wing groups...that shit entrenchs radical left wing groups.

Yes, which is why our laws need to be enforced regularly, consistently and objectively, for both Left and Right wing groups, as I've said multiple times in this thread.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2017, 03:31:08 PM by MTL76 »


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therock

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Re: ANTIFA: smash or trash?
« Reply #57 on: September 04, 2017, 03:55:13 PM »
True. But what happen when the cops become facist. I mean like with the Bundy thing cops dont always come at them when they do something wrong.

That was certainly a fuck up. I'm not ready to tear down our current system because of it. It's a fairly robust system with several checks and balances, and which affords our citizenry a high level of freedom... as long as we're smart enough to stick with it.

But when our government becomes a Fascist state, I promise I'll sign up with the nearest group of Bolshevik freedom fighters. 

Quote
Which to me if where going to talk about what entrenches radical right wing groups...that shit entrenchs radical left wing groups.

Yes, which is why our laws need to be enforced regularly, consistently and objectively, for both Left and Right wing groups, as I've said multiple times in this thread.

never said you didnt.  My point is the law NOT being enforce consitently

pointing out this because if we going to talk about avoiding entrenching right wing groups...driving people to racism..then something also can be said..what we can do not to drive the radical left to be more Radical. In order to do that then we got to figure out what causing the extreminisim

Stuff like the pardon of the judge and trump comments about cops kind of shows their certain groups that you can kind of do what ever the fuck you want to. Not only that but the law on your side.  And to me that what cause the extreme side of  Antifa. Because they go

"Well if they not going to play by the rules..why the fuck should we"


Now a simple answer to that. Well because the other side have more people and bigger guns and yes the law on their side. You lose if a war ever happen and lose badly. so it dumb to try to use violence. But I can see why that not satifying answer.  Then there the whole..its wrong to commit violence in general that I beleave.

To me the answer is protest. Non violent protest. Should never attack. But if a side effect is annoyance...that shouldnt be the goal...but so be it if its a side effect. Yea sometimes that mean callling racist shit racist.   If someone decided "FUCK  someone call me racist, then I am going to Join a hate group just to show them" then they were already pretty facist to begin with

That like me saying  "Oh They think this movement is a group of terriorst and thugs. I will show them (punches white guy)" It be just as dumb


To me the best way to fight it is show what you agree with

Be like

"Listen I am for things like medium wage, clean water, safe working condtions that would help rural American. I want to contiune the federal aid that comes to your state way more then mind.  If you have a Disaster I want to help. I will work hand to hand with you. I will also speak against when my groups does something fucked up. But on a flip side I may also speak about things like stop and frisk being bad. Or the birther thing being racist. I may fight for gay rights. Hell I may be gay. After I help you get food...I may go home and suck a dick or two. It up to you if those differences make you want to vote against your interest. EITHER way..I am going to fight for the things that will help you. Like if it if you work with me"


To me that the best my side can do

AP

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Re: ANTIFA: smash or trash?
« Reply #58 on: September 04, 2017, 05:53:22 PM »
At this point, we're discussing vigilante justice.

LiquidSailor

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Re: ANTIFA: smash or trash?
« Reply #59 on: September 05, 2017, 05:24:42 AM »
ANTIFA and BLM have to learn that committing crimes isn't going to help your cause against the alt right idiots.  Going out there and being a moron only gives the other side fuel and talking points, as well as making your own side look like shit.

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