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Jabroniville

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Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
« Reply #30 on: January 12, 2015, 07:34:35 AM »
Yeah, we're all pretty much on the same page with Reigns- great Look, mid-range at everything else. We're also all very close on Ambrose- I'm at 19.5 and others are at 21.

Imperial

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Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
« Reply #31 on: January 12, 2015, 08:43:56 AM »
Jack Swagger
Look: 7.5 (Legit six and a half footer and not far off 300 pounds. Athletic though kind of bland.)
Skill: 6.5 (Varies wildly depending upon motivation. He can be anything from a solid top ten worker to just average like.
Charisma: 4 (Was actually talking more and better in recent times. The Soaring Eagle era though was his high interest point.
Overall: 18 (Jack is a good talent that they missed on and then doghoused after the dui and pot.)

Kofi Kingston:
Look: 5 (Different but smallish and not all that developed.)
Skill: 6 (Good for spots and excitement. Had a run where he was actually doing substantial work a few years back. But that died with his better IC pushes.)
Charisma: 4 (Needed a character remake long ago. Now it is too late.)
Overall: 15 (A former favorite of mine that is probably on his last legs in the E.)

Heath Slater
Look: 3 (Smallish, puny, and not good looking.)
Skill: 4 (He has a small cult following who swear he is good but I just don't see anything special.)
Charisma: 3.5 (Is occasionally amusing but only for a second and has no presence whatsosver.)
Overall : 10.5 (At the bottom of the card where he belongs.)

Sheamus
Look: 8.5 (Solid and unique. You are not going to forget him.)
Skill: 7 (Underrated sometimes but a solid all around ring performer.)
Charisma: 4.5 (Bingo, we've reached his weakness. Doesn't talk all that well and his character is staler than month old bread.)
Overall : 20 (A solid all around hand that lacks that something extra to make him special.)
« Last Edit: January 12, 2015, 08:49:51 AM by Stratus »
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Not BAMF

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Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
« Reply #32 on: January 12, 2015, 10:09:34 AM »
I haven't done Swagger yet, but when I do later today, I'm going to get killed for it; I just know. I've always been SUPER high on him, and I think every aspect of him says Main Event Guy. I have just gotten used to his misuse by now, but I think the guy's solid gold.

Not BAMF

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Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
« Reply #33 on: January 12, 2015, 08:07:30 PM »
Jack Swagger
LOOK - 7.5 (Jack is a BIG GUY without seeming like a monster. He's in shape, but not chiseled)
SKILL - 7.5 (Swagger can put on some really good matches, and he's very technically sound. He moves around the ring really fluidly, too. Match psychology is a weak spot for him, even in the current era where everyone suffers there)
CHARISMA - 7.5 (I've always thought Swagger was pretty good here. His run as World Champ was very entertaining, as his his solo run with Coulter before they picked up Cesaro. He and Coulter had some great back-and-forth stuff, with Swagger being unappreciatedly funny)
TOTAL - 22.5 (Yeah, super high. I knew it. I think Swagger should be a shoo-in main event talent, but I also see that he is just well-rounded and doesn't excel in any one area, so maybe that--and his own vices--are what is holding him back)

Brock Lesnar
LOOK - 10 (Yeah. Obvs)
SKILL - 5 (He has fallen off DRAMATICALLY from his first WWE run. Has he even had a GOOD match in 2014? I know he hasn't had MANY, but they haven't been good. His most memorable match was the massacre of Cena, but it wasn't memorable because it was a classic)
CHARISMA - 4 (He's saddled with Heyman for a reason. He's a guy who is much more charismatic as HIMSELF than he is as a WWE character/superstar)
TOTAL - 19 (YEAH. Jack Swagger IS 3.5 better than Brock Lesnar. ...... Well, Brock does have that glaring TEN, which is always a big deal. A solid ten in any one era is a big deal, and it can rocket people even if they aren't great in the other areas. And he's adequate enough in other categories to not be held back by them, so...)

Tyson Kidd
LOOK - 5 (Scrawny dude, but he has such a punchable face)
SKILL - 8 (He's good, but overrated by the IWC at large)
CHARISMA - 5 (He basically just jumps around and acts obnoxious. It's fun, and he's doing it well enough, but a pretty easy role to play)
TOTAL - 18 (Way higher than I personally think of Kidd. I'm not a fan, personally)
« Last Edit: January 12, 2015, 08:18:21 PM by Not BAMF »

herochat

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Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
« Reply #34 on: January 12, 2015, 09:48:42 PM »
I think one of the bigger things holding Swagger back is his Kurt Angle/ barrel-chest/ tiny-arms body. The dude is huge and has an incredible athletic build, but not that typical body builder body that Vince creams over
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Jabroniville

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Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
« Reply #35 on: January 12, 2015, 10:55:31 PM »
Cock Chestnar is a bit tough, but has an advantage not shown via the ratings system- credibility. As the former UFC Champion, Brock is instantly credible in his matches. There is absolutely no doubt that if be wanted, he could hold John Cena down and fuck him up the ass.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2015, 10:57:06 PM by Jabroniville »

Jabroniville

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Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
« Reply #36 on: January 13, 2015, 02:18:55 AM »
Some bigger names:

-An issue I'm having with the Skill rating is that I hate the modern Main Event style- it's just not entertaining to me, and so I'm penalizing a lot of major guys. Plus I haven't watched any PPVs, so I'm missing guys at their peak.

GOLDUST
Look: 7 (always interesting, and he's not as chubby as he used to be)
Skill: 7 (he's actually gotten BETTER with age, even popping out new moves well into his 40s!)
Charisma: 8 (a really top-notch dude and a great actor)
Overall: 22 (really, really high)
-Goldust is one of the most-depressing stories of last year. The guy comes back to the company over the "Cody is Fired!" angle, tries to win "the good son"s job back, but fails against Orton and is dumped, too. But THEN the Dust Brothers come back, WIN their jobs back triumphantly, and even become Tag Team champions, unseating the top-tier Shield stable! And then they job to The Old Age Outlaws, get a brutal de-push, then fuck off and die. One meaningless heel turn later, and you have a forgettable Tag Team duo that doesn't even get a push. And Goldust is the best he's EVER BEEN, too!

THE BIG SHOW
Look: 10 (yeah, just too huge to not be a credible fighter)
Skill: 2.5 (time has not been kind to the aging Showster. Not that he ever had GOOD matches...)
Charisma: 8 (really, really underrated. His run as the guy fighting the Authority featured Meryl Streep-level acting by wrestling standards)
Overall: 21 (Quite good, though he's been around too long to really cap it off)
-The Big Show is more or less being used right- a guy you can trot out for random Main Event pushes every year or so, put against any opponent, and make him put over your future top-tier acts. His current feud against Roman Reigns may not be ideal for testing Reigns' workrate, but he's doing wonders for the guy's cred by selling his ass off for that Superman Punch. I was really into his "I just need to feed my family" angle, though of course it was a disaster to try and have him be a legit World Title contender (the ratings SUCKED for the PPV), and the fans didn't care for his attempts at taking over the "YES!" chants. He shouldn't be a World Title contender anymore, and he's turned face & heel too many times in his INSANELY long career (and almost all of it spent on a national stage) for him to have any more meaning, but he's fine as a Main Event Jobber.

KANE
Look: 8.5 (getting flabby and old-looking)
Skill: 1.5 (holy fuckfarts is he bad. He's like Sid-level bad, now, but without having well-executed finishers like Sid did)
Charisma: 7 (His monster act is tired, and his Corporate Kane thing does nothing for anybody)
Overall: 17 (the worst he's ever been)
-Kane just really needs to go. His age is holding him back, as he's not a physical specimen, his act is BEYOND tired, and he's turning into one of those Jeff Jarrett-level Charisma Black Holes that can make any segment worse just by having him around. His best role now is a Big Show-like Main Event Jobber, not messing around endlessly. Sticking Daniel Bryan with him was one of the worst booking decisions of last year, especially now that Kane's cred means almost nothing.

BO DALLAS
Look: 3.5 (short and flabby-looking)
Skill: 5 (I haven't seen much good or bad from him)
Charisma: 5.5 (almost kinda-sorta was getting over with his act)
Overall: 14 (bad. Jobber Bad)
-Bo's also turned out to be nothing- they seemed to be almost going somewhere with him, but they gave up REALLY, REALLY FAST. Suddenly he jobbed out to low-tier acts and taken off TV. What a weird mess. Sure he didn't seem any good, but what was the harm in trying?

RANDY ORTON
Look: 9 (a great physique, and probably the most beautiful man in wrestling. A bit lanky for an intimidating look, though)
Skill: 6.5 (has plenty of decent-to-fine matches, but struggles against weaker opponents or making anyone else look good)
Charisma: 7.5 (I think he really struggles here. He plays "intense" well, but doesn't have any memorable Main Event Promos)
Overall: 22 (really high overall, but not what he should be)
-Orton's had an awful year, which is odd, because he was Champion for a lot of it. He's basically played the Butt-Monkey of The Authority for most of it, and was made to look foolish, requiring help almost constantly. And then he was taken off TV, JUST when the "RKO- OUT OF NOWHERE!" thing became an internet meme! Other workers speak to his working ability (saying he's like a dream to work with), but as a fan, I don't find it actually reflecting on the quality of his matches. The fact that he's been around as long as Cena, but jumped around Big Show-like with his allegiances, doesn't help.

BOOTISTA
Look: 8.5 (has not aged well. He's muscular, but looks like an old lesbian)
Skill: 2 (oh JESUS what happened? He was always Botchtista, but he just shrivelled up)
Charisma: 6.5 (just didn't seem to give a fuck, and it showed)
Overall: 17 (nowhere near what he should have been)
-The return of Batista should have worked fine, but they utterly buggered the whole push. Giving him a WORLD TITLE SHOT IMMEDIATELY just soured fans on him right out of the gate, and then the BRYAN thing snowballed, resulting in a massive backlash. And he didn't do a single thing to fix it (or even capitalize on the Heel Heat), as you can see it took the wind out of his sails, and made him start half-assing it even worse. Just a massive disaster.

C.M. PUNK
Look: 5.5 (very small and flabby, but the ladies love him, and his tattoos look decent enough)
Skill: 8.5 (he's looked injured as fuck all year, but is one of their best guys)
Charisma: 10 (probably the best in the company for the past SEVERAL years- the best since Rocky)
Overall: 24 (probably the best overall guy)
-Punk's had an awful year, but mainly because he quit so early. The Lesnar feud was alright, and produced some of the best moments that didn't involve Daniel Bryan, but Punk was suffering physically, and then took his ball and went home. He's also funny because he's got the reverse problem Cena has- he's so awesome that he CAN'T BE A PROPER HEEL, as the fans automatically start cheering for him! This messes up a lot of his angles, as he can act like a major scumbag, but still get people behind him. It doesn't help that he seems like a bit of a selfish ass and a man-whore in real life (I have no doubt that he's an aggressive prick to a lot of people), yet is still smart and charismatic enough to make people take his side in debates in spite of it.

pittfox

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Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
« Reply #37 on: January 13, 2015, 04:15:24 AM »
Brock has very strong charisma. I would say at least a 7 and personally more like a 9. Something about being a legit badass. If you are using mic skill as a the main criteria then 4 is ok. His skill should be a bit higher to. The Punk match is one of my favorite matches ever.

Jabroniville

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Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
« Reply #38 on: January 14, 2015, 01:20:27 AM »
Here's the last batch of guys:

DANIEL BRYAN

Look: 5.5 (itty-bitty, but has a distinctive beard and a good wreslter-looking physique. This might be too high)
Skill: 9 (against a higher class of opponent, I can easily see him as a full "10", but not in the current WWE Main Event Style as it is now. I've actually never seen his ROH stuff, either. He's probably that good there)
Charisma: 9 (he actually struggles a bit with long promos- often just kinda mumbling or being a regular guy, but he has GREAT charisma that puts him over the top. Few other wrestlers could have gotten "YES!" that over)
Overall: 23.5 (a top-tier talent)
-Bryan is a great success story, but also horribly depressing- few would have given him a chance as a top-tier guy, but he eventually got SO OVER by virtue of his wrestling skill and his raw charisma (and catchphrase-ability, something most modern guys struggle with) that he basicall hijacked the shows and became the World Champion. This is a truly unique, once-in-a-lifetime thing, and was the most fascinating part of last year's wrestling. But alas, they stuck him in the worst feud ever with Kane The Liability, and then he got hurt and vanished, leaving his useless wife to kill the fuck out of every segment (remember when she was a virtuous babyface and being picked on by her evil sister? ME NEITHER BECAUSE THEY'RE TOTALLY JUST EVIL HEELS NOW). I REALLY hope he doesn't turn into another Edge- a guy with limitless capabilities, but an injury-prone body that can't hold up to the rigors of the business (his long time in the bump-heavy ROH probably did him no favors). It's almost a benefit that he was hurt, since he's the uncrowned Champion and would have just been gobbled up by Lesnar this year anyways.

SIN CARA
Look: 6 (whatever physique. Cool mask)
Skill: 6 (fine, I guess. Haven't seen him too much)
Charisma: 4 (kind of just stands there and does nothing. A complete blank)
Overall: 16 (barely there)
-This guy's been totally pointless all year. First they switch guys (apparently they've done that before), and now he's just a JTTS nobody. Very odd.

JOHN CENA
Look: 10 (basically Vince's wet dream, and looks like Matt Damon on HGH. Needs to lose the jorts)
Skill: 6 (meh, whatever. Totally "same old" in the ring, and a standard Main Event Brawler)
Charisma: 7 (actually gets some great fiery promos, but sucks ass at long promos, and often devolves into childish jokes. Can't appeal to half the audience)
Overall: 23 (upper-level guy)
-Cena's just tired. He was and is a perfectly-fine Main Eventer, but he's officially had one of the longest runs as The Ace in wrestling history, and he's just NOT good enough for it. Especially since he's been playing the same character. It's just... you stick a guy with Cena, he shows some ass for a while, then he bounces back and wins in the end. He's jobbed more than any Ace in wrestling history, but VERY few guys come out of his feuds looking any better or any stronger.

BROCK LESNAR
Look: 10 (not as great as he used to be, but I'll include his "Bad-Ass Aura" here- his credibility as UFC Heavyweight Champion basically means he's a Main Event-level threat no matter what)
Skill: 5.5 (I actually have no idea- he only wrestles on PPV, and I haven't seen any. Apparently did okay sometimes, but not great)
Charisma: 6 (rarely cuts effective promos, but is great when he wants to be)
Overall: 21.5 (not where a World Champion needs to be)
-He's also been a disaster this year- they killed The Streak for a guy who only shows up on TV a few times a year (thus tanking ratings), wrestles at only a couple of PPVs, and now looks to be dumping wrestling AGAIN for UFC.

REY MYSTERIO
Look: 5 (roided up and has an awesome mask for a look. Tiny, though)
Skill: 7 (a great seller, but he's slowed down a lot)
Charisma: 6 (great at getting sympathy heat, but his accent is awful and he can't do promos well)
Overall: 18 (no longer worthy of the Main Event, and better as a mid-tier guy)
-Rey's just floundered, especially since he's so hurt. Probably better off as a Special Attraction, but now THOSE GUYS are starting to outnumber the actual wrestlers.

MARK HENRY
Look: 8.5 (Big scary back man)
Skill: 2.5 (blurgh. Just terrible now that he's gotten old in addition to being fat)
Charisma: 8 (can still cut some AMAZING promos, but generally doesn't get to)
Overall: 18.5 (mid-tier guy)
-Henry cut one HELL of a promo when he threatened retirement, but then murdered Cena. It was AWESOME. But after that, he just segued right back to being a Happy Smiling Babyface, and disappeared down the card. He's fine as a Jobber to other top-level Monster Heels, and can basically be repackaged any time due to his Monster Aura and charisma, but he can't get it done in the ring.

R-TRUTH
Look: 8 (scary black man with an INTENSE physique. Black don't crack, man)
Skill: 5.5 (jump-y and fast, but never really blows your mind)
Charisma: 5.5 (raps and does stuff to pump up the crowd, but never leaves the "Jobber Area" with it)
Overall: 19 (woah- higher than I thought. That seems wrong)
-He's got a decent rating because he's not really BAD at anything, but he's so middling in most of it, in addition to being a tired act in the same old role, so it doesn't matter. He's just your standard Smiling Dancing Negro to jump around for Massa Vince's enjoyment.

CHRIS JERICHO
Look: 5 (getting chubby and older looking, but his squatness actually makes him a bit more "credible")
Skill: 7 (can still get it done, but not to his old level)
Charisma: 8 (still Chris Jericho, but doesn't care as much now that he's a permanent Midcarder)
Ovearll: 20 (still good)
-Jericho is now what Foley was five or six years ago- a guy who comes out to job, and everyone knows it. It's not the worst role for him (he's a bit long of tooth), but eventually the fans aren't going to care once they recognize that he's ONLY here to put over newer, younger acts. The Bray Wyatt feud was a mess for this reason, and it wasn't over.

TRIPLE-H
Look: 7.5 (he's aged a lot, but is still bulky)
Skill: 6 (age & roids are a bad combo- he's just a plodding brawler now)
Charisma: 6.5 (can occasionally get it done in big-time promos, but he's the same old Hunter- a long rambler with no real message or ability to get himself over. Often devolves to just smirking and blowing his opponents off, which is the WORST trait a heel could possibly have)
Overall: 20 (still good)
-Trips is in a weird role, where he's the Vince McMahon who doesn't show ass the way Vince did- Vince was CONSTANTLY being humiliated on TV, to the point where every time he got one over on Austin, he'd get a HUGE ass-kicking next week (or get pissed on or something) to make up for it. Hunter... just smirks at his opponents, runs roughshod over them, and makes them look like they're beneath him. He DESTROYS the Babyfaces who oppose him, and seems to get about 90% while his enemies get 10% (Vince was 50/50, and often looked WORSE). Moreover, The Authority no longer make sense- at least they could play off that Bryan wasn't "Marketable" (the rub being that he WAS, but his unconventiality made him a good Anti-Corporate type), but why are they feuding with fucking CENA if that's the case? He's the Merch Seller He-Man and everyone knows it! They've gone from the epitome of Corporate Marketing Villains to just Evil Heel Owners who hate everyone who's the babyface, so their feuds and their motivations make no sense.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2015, 05:38:28 AM by Jabroniville »

Necro

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Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
« Reply #39 on: January 14, 2015, 03:46:03 AM »
I'm really not sure why you gave Cena a 6 in skill.
Each of his matches are the very same.
1. Get beat upon by the bad guy for 15 mins
2. Suddenly get up, hit your 5 moves. If Interrupted in the middle, start from 1.
3. Overcome the odds in the last 5 seconds and win.

Charisma?
I think he is a Charisma BLACK HOLE!
I think he used to be good, because his MadTV stuff is gold, but nowadays it's a joke.
He can't act for the life of him, and the segments where he talks is the worst.

Speed of Zound

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Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
« Reply #40 on: January 14, 2015, 05:00:09 AM »
When Trips does finally sell a promo its always great though; I has never heard the name 'Cactus Jack' until Mankind announced he'd wrestle Trips under that name in their Street Fight and the sell Hunter did really made me think Jack was hot shit. When Jack challenged him to a Hell in a Cell was also good.

Jabroniville

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Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
« Reply #41 on: January 14, 2015, 05:41:00 AM »
I gave Cena a "6" in Skill to be nice :). He's had a few good matches over the years, can go to 10-15 minutes and not humiliate himself, has good cardio, and apparently still brings it in Main Events on PPV. I find all his matches skippable.

He's a "7" in Charisma because he's still ENORMOUSLY popular with at least one segment of the fanbase. Again, I'd put him closer to "5" if I was being biased against him, if not lower. But any Main Eventer who's on top for THAT length of time absolutely has to be in the upper segment of Charisma, even if I hate him.

Jabroniville

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Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
« Reply #42 on: January 14, 2015, 05:58:30 AM »
24 is the highest of any current guy. The highest I'd EVER go is 28, which is what Macho Man (8/10/10) and Kurt Angle (8/10/10) have. I think anyone with a "10" in look is just going to be too bulky to match their level of Skill, and likely spends too much time in the gym to develop a real personality. Nobody excelled at wrestling like those two did, on every level.

Imperial

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Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
« Reply #43 on: January 14, 2015, 08:42:26 AM »
Jab really is kinder with the ratings at the bottom than I am. When he thinks someone is lackluster, they seem to still find a way to get some dignifying points. When I do, not really so. Just look at our Sin Cara and Bo Dallas scores. I suspect it would be the same story with Heath. The Ascension would not even get into double digits in my scoring. Then again that act may even be too much for Jab to give salvation points to.
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Jabroniville

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Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
« Reply #44 on: January 14, 2015, 05:06:26 PM »
Heh - the Ascension seem awful, but it's too early for me to judge. They almost seem like a parody of 1980s tag teams, like they're trolling fans for complaining that they want another Monster Tag Team.