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The Bret Hart Categories thread!

Jabroniville

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The Bret Hart Categories thread!
« on: January 11, 2015, 03:04:54 AM »
Figured I would give assessments of each guy, especially having watched the show for a year and a half by this point. Though MY GOD I'm basically down to just reading recaps and seeing the parts I wanna see these days...

I'll do a handful of guys each time.

KOFI KINGSTON
Look: 5.5 (small-ish, but toned and athletic)
Skill: 6.5 (flashy and athletic, but slots his moves into the Generic WWE Match Template style way too much. I've yet to see his infamous botches)
Charisma: 4 (Generic Happy Smiling Babyface)
Overall: 16
Prospects: I think Kofi is doomed. Maybe another bullshit IC run or something, but he's clearly done being pushed, and nobody on top seems to like him. I haven't seen him cut a single promo, nor get a meaningful win. The New Day is terrible and doomed to failure, which in modern terms means they'll be Tag Champs for a month or two after their heel turn in a few weeks.

DOLPH ZIGGLER
Look: 6.5 (athletic and big enough, but Jobbery)
Skill: 7 (good enough, but boring)
Charisma: 5 (zzzzzzzzzzzz)
Overall: 19.5
-Dolph still bores the living shit out of me. And his whole weird Shawn Michaels/Billy Gunn combo act is weird and just not doing it for me either. He cuts these generic "I'm gonna TRY HARD!" promos, sells overly-much (like he cartoonishly flops around like every match is Shawn Michaels vs. Hulk Hogan), and he just kind of fits in as some filler guy. And his name is SO FUCKING STUPID that I can't get into him. The crowds like him as much as any Cena-level dude, but people on top actively dislike him so he's basically Daniel Bryan without the "pull" of crowd reactions to side with him. I don't see him ever becoming World Champion the way things are now.

ALBERTO DEL RIO
Look: 5.5 (tall and studly, but not really physical looking)
Skill: 5.5 (zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz... technically-gifted, but watching him wrestle is like watching flies fuck!)
Charisma: 2 (zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz)
Overall: 13 (move over, Jeff Jarrett- there is a NEW Least Interesting Wrestler in the World)
-Well he was fired, and it's hilarious because absolutely NOBODY seems to miss him. Actually wait, there are a couple of apologists who sprout up, and I find them bizarre- this guy's technical offense is some of the most mind-numbingly boring stuff I've ever seen in the ring. It's like... he's more technically-competent than Cena, Sheamus or even Ziggler, but he just does everything so SLOWLY and METHODICALLY that you can't even get into the psychology as a fan. It's a textbook example of why technical wizards like Dean Malenko had troubles getting over, but it even extends to "Workrate Fans" like me. Thank Christ he's gone.

SHEAMUS
Look: 8.5 (a muscular giant, but he's just so OFF-PUTTING physically. Like an alabaster Super Saiyan)
Skill: 5.5 (BLURGH. Same old Cookie Cutter pseudo-Main Eventer shit with the same couple moves slotted into random parts of the match. Every Sheamus match is absolutely identical)
Charisma: 6 (he says FELLA, and that's it)
Overall: 18
-Sheamus is a huge casualty of the "Cookie Cutter Development System", effectively formulating this by-the-numbers offense with by-the-numbers comebacks, falling into the Bret Hart/Macho Man Lazy Template of selling for a whole match and then coming back with the same moves. Aside from his distinctive skin & hair, he's got the Developmental Look, too. And now that he's no longer Triple-H's pal, it looks like he's on that gravy train to nowheresville, and they've completely given up on him. I see a lot of US/IC Title reigns in his future, but I can't imagine they'll ever bother bringing him back to the top tiers since he was such a disaster on top last time (and it's unfair, because he was so new then that he was OBVIOUSLY going to fail).

DAMIEN SANDOW
Look: 7.5 (he's pretty big, isn't he? I find him boring so I often don't watch him closely enough. Buff, but not much definition)
Skill: 4 (as Generic as it's possible to get)
Charisma: 5.5 (somehow got over doing the stupidest shit)
Overall: 17 (almost seems too high)
-Sandow became one of the weirder modern guys, in that he got over doing some insanely stupid thing (mimicking Miz's moves from outside the ring?... and it got over?). I see him going the Snitzky Route- they give him a big push owing to his popularity (Miz will turn on him and he'll win a low-end Title), then grow bored with him, then rapidly de-push him and treat him like a joke again. He fails to stand out as a worker in any way whatsoever, but that's not too strange in this company now.

BIG E LANGSTON
Look: 8.5 (big, thick, breast-y physique. Looks tough, if not like a bodybuilder)
Skill: 3.5 (his moves look good, but he's limited. Pretty much because he's legitimately killing guys out there, but I don't penalize for stiffness)
Charisma: 3.5 (Generic Angry Heel or Happy Babyface)
Overall: 15.5
-Just awful. A terrible worker with no charisma who failed to get over in any way, and now he's a nobody. And his name is stupid. And he's a Smiling Dancing Negro, because Vince thinks it's still the 1970s.

LOS MATADORES
Look: 3 (they look puny)
Skill: 5 (dull for guys who are so small. They look trained from the Brian Christopher School of wrestling like a heavyweight even if you're tiny)
Charisma: 2 (in about five seconds their midget got more over than either of them)
Overall: 10
-They're just a filler Jobber Duo- they didn't even get a Token Tag Title reign with those worthless belts! They pretty much exist only to have El Torito come out and do some silly bull stuff. Though I guess as modern-day Comedy Jobbers they're alright.

BLACK CENA (aka Darren Young):
Look: 7.5 (handsome young man with some good size)
Skill: 5 (flavourless modern Cookie Cutter Guy)
Charisma: 3.5 (he has that dance... and that was it)
Overall: 16
-Fell off the face of the Earth, right when he was getting noticed for coming out of the closet. Not that it's the best foundation for a PUSH (they'd obviously fuck it up if they tried), but I guess he needed more seasoning or something. He hasn't even come back from getting beaten up by his partner!

TITUS O'NEIL
Look: 8.5 (big ripped guy, but on the lean side for a hardbody type)
Skill: 3 (I don't think he's shown jack shit)
Charisma: 3.5 (he acted sick one time. And frowned a lot when he did his heel turn)
Overall: 15 (he's going to break their heart if they try to turn his heel turn into a big push)
-Did a big turn on his partner, and ended up going nowhere. I actually dislike this guy intensely, and only for that stupid fucking "Urrah! Urrah! Urrah!" call with his head bouncing around. It looks like he's about to puke, and sounds stupid. And what the fuck is with using a guy who's basically More Ripped Ahmed Johnson and using him as a JOBBER? Sure he sucks, but come on.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2016, 03:43:48 AM by Wyntyr »

Imperial

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Re: Jab Assesses all the modern wrestlers
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2015, 04:35:28 AM »
Being that we had this on the old forum, I was thinking of a thread like this myself. I'm glad someone less lazy decided to put it up instead.  :D

Sad but true about Kofi. I used to mark for him here and in general years ago. But it is over and has been for some time.

I think Ziggs merits a bit more than a seven in skill atm. Admitted overselling and all he has had a top year in the ring.

Sheamus is more skillful than charismatic/good speaking imo.

I'd rate Sandow lower in look but higher in charisma.
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Jabroniville

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Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2015, 05:54:39 AM »
Sandow is hard to judge, because I'm pretty sure he's huge. Like, really big. He just gets into the wrong contests sometimes. He's a bit flabby, though. Also the Charisma thing is difficult because he's currently over doing something goofy, but he was DYING doing a year's worth of bad material before that.

Yeah, Ziggler could maybe be higher in Skill. But I usually just see him flying all over the ring, not actually controlling offense or anything.

Imperial

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Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2015, 07:23:53 AM »
Sandow seems around Edge size to me, but without Edge's rock star look. 
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Not BAMF

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Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2015, 09:48:01 AM »
I always get a kick out of doing this, and it changes enough that it's worth re-doing every year or so. I'll do the guys Jab has touched on first>

Kofi Kingston
LOOK - 4.5 (He is small and nondescript, but he has.... hair, I guess?)
SKILL - 6 (He's all right, if a lot botchy. For being a big spot guy, though, he's not THAT amazing)
CHARISMA - 3.5 (He's had one memorable promo in his entire career, which has to be about 6 years old or so by now. It's time to admit that Randy Orton promo was either a huge fluke or lightning in a bottle)
TOTAL - 14 (He's not very good, and he peaked in the midcard where he belongs)

Dolph Ziggler 
LOOK - 6 (He's built well, and he just has a good smug face that displays ranges of emotion well. Small, though)
SKILL - 8.5 (He's an amazing seller, which everyone knows. He suffers from having his moveset WWE-ized a great deal because you know he can do a lot more than he gets to show. His stuff looks crisp and impactful)
CHARISMA - 8 (Not legendary or anything, but he's a great talker when given the chance. Unfortunately, like his moveset, his personality is hindered by WWE not giving him as much to work with as they were even two years ago or so)
TOTAL - 22.5 (Dolph's really changed my opinion of him in the last few years. For a while, I really thought he was Overrated Midcard Guy, but I don't think many people work as hard as Dolph)

Alberto Del Rio (why are we rating people who are gone?)
LOOK - 5 (Tall and lanky, with a goofy, albeit villainous, face)
SKILL - 7 (Definitely Del Rio's hardest aspect to judge. He's a great WRESTLER whose matches tell a good story. And I love the way he works the arm consistently like an old-school Flair used to work the knee. But his matches are so boring. So, so boring. Good psychology, but bad on action)
CHARISMA - 3 (Just awful, and he was really exposed when he lost Ricardo Rodriguez as his lightning rod/speaker)
TOTAL - 15 (Midcard talent who was always pushed WAY too hard)

Sheamus
LOOK - 9 (Not a monster, but large. And very distinctive and memorable looking)
SKILL - 7 (He's eminently carryable to really good heights with the right opponents--Bryan and Morrison had GREAT matches with the guy--but he can slum it if he's in there with a slug)
CHARISMA - 6.5 (He seems really comfortable in a speaking role, and he feels natural and not forced. That said, he never seems to have much to say, and he gets repetitive often)
TOTAL - 22.5 (higher than I'd have thought for Sheamus, but he does have a great look)

Damien Mizdow
LOOK - 6 (He's tall, but not imposingly so. His beard is unique and memorable, I guess)
SKILL - 5 (I've never ever gotten anything more than "average wrestler" out of Mizdow in the ring)
CHARISMA - 7.5 (He's entertaing as hell, but then, he's been given really good characters to work with. His work with Miz is one of the few bright sides to WWE these days)
TOTAL - 18.5 (Higher-end midcard potential... which he, sadly, has yet to live up to)

Big E Langston (Look, I'm not even bothering to do those other non-entities you listed, Jab)
LOOK - 7 (It's a 7 AT BEST. He's meaty, but stout and short)
SKILL - 2.5 (A good match for Big E is one where he doesn't injure the guy he's working with)
CHARISMA - 2.5 (LOLno)
TOTAL - 12 (Wow. I didn't think he'd be this low, but... there you have it)

HalloweenJack

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Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2015, 09:49:18 AM »
I saw some old YouTube clip of him doing a handsome lech gimmick with no beard. One of the women in it was Edge's wife Beth Phoenix...

and the other was Shelley Martinez

Not BAMF

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Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2015, 10:26:58 AM »
Moving on to some of the guys Jab didn't get to yet...

The Miz
LOOK - 5.5 ("Just A Guy" at BEST, but as you can tell, I lump the ability to emote facially in with look, and Miz is pretty great at that)
SKILL - 5.5 (He's barely more than "Just A Wrestler", but I give him credit for having worked his butt off to get to that point)
CHARISMA - 8.5 (Miz is a natural, fluid talker. He's gotten a few catchphrases CRAZY over, and I think people tend to downplay how hard he is currently working to help the Mizdow gimmick get over)
TOTAL - 19.5 (Low-end main eventer or king of the midcard range, which feels right for Miz. At this point, even though he is young, it feels like Miz has already accomplished all that he's going to, and is just going to be a body for years to come, which is sad)

Bad News Barrett
LOOK - 7.5 (He's tall and well-built, but he's not Hogan or Savage by any means. Good smug look, and he genuinely looks like he's amusing the hell out of himself)
SKILL - 4.5 (He isn't bad, but he's entirely average. His moves look crisp and impactful, but his matches themselves are not memorable. He loses a full point for having one of the stupidest finishers in WWE these days)
CHARISMA - 7.5 (He's GREATLY improved with the BNB gimmick, as he was barely Just A Guy when he was Wade Barrett. Very distinctive, inimitable catchphrase, but sometimes everything that comes after it is forgettable)
TOTAL - 19.5 (19.5 and still improving. I'm not sure what Barrett's ceiling might be, but he seems like he could eventually belong as a main eventer if he keeps building)

The Usos
LOOK - 5.5 (Just A Guy's... but with FACEPAINT!)
SKILL - 6 (Jump, dive, Superkick. Repeat ad nauseam until match ends)
CHARISMA - 4.5 (the fans are somewhat into them, but their entire shtick is based around a super dated hip-hop routine with the "We say U, you say SO!" thing.
TOTAL - 16 (Adequate at best, which still makes them one of the best tag teams of the last several years!)

Cody Rhodes/Stardust
LOOK - 4 (A guy who manages to look both small AND lanky. He's never managed to look like he should be a REAL THREAT to a heavyweight guy. As Stardust, his costume is relatively goofy)
SKILL - 8 (He's a good hand in the ring, and his moves are fluid. Good psychology in his matches, and his finisher is awesome)
CHARISMA - 8 (Cody is really underrated here. I've seen very few guys get so many gimmicks that are so different from each other, and still give 100% effort and commitment to each one. Cody has managed to get really over at points in his career in spite of WWE's clear lack of desire for him to do so)
TOTAL - 20 (If guys like Rey Mysterio and Eddie Guerrero and Chris Benoit and The Miz can work their way to the top of the card--even if briefly--Cody should be able to, as well. Unfortunately, it's pretty easy to see Cody is a guy WWE actively wants to hold down for whatever reason)

Rusev
LOOK - 7 (It's an odd era we live in where RUSEV is supposed to be a "monster". He's stocky and looks strong, but the guy ain't exactly Vader)
SKILL - 8 (He is a truly magnificent seller for a "monster" character, and he really makes his opponents look strong while ALSO managing to come across as somewhat unstoppable with a devastating, high-impact offense. A Camel Clutch is a laaaammmme finisher in 2000-friggin'-15, so minus at least half a point)
CHARISMA - 2? (More of like "INCOMPLETE", but what can you do? He doesn't speak, is entirely forgettable when he does try, and is saddled with a mouthpiece for now. His in-ring charisma is a lot of raising his arms)
TOTAL - 17 (It's 17 with a bigger upside if he can develop any ability to speak for himself or emote. For now, he's what I've said he is for months: Umaga 2.0)

Adam Rose
LOOK - 6.5 (He's tall, but not imposing. He emotes well enough and has a distinctive enough look with the eyeliner and hair and lollipop)
SKILL - 3.5 (I haven't seen much out of him, but I don't think he's even had a WWE match longer than 5 minutes)
CHARISMA - 6 (With a decent upside. I feel like they abandoned his fun-loving party guy character in favor of a jealous heel turn WAY too quickly, but he's played both roles well so far)
TOTAL - 16 (Lower-tier midcard guy so far, and it seems like he'll be as vanished as Bo Dallas within 2 months. It's a shame... Rose is a guy I'd like to see more of to see what he can do)

Cesaro
LOOK - 6 (He's built well, and he appears to be compact and tight. Not much memorable or intimidating about him, though)
SKILL - 9.5 (I hesitate to give him a 10, but he's the closest to a 10 that WWE has outside of Daniel Bryan in this category. His matches are an absolute treat, his moves look punishingly real while also completely protecting his opponent, and the fans pop for his offense)
CHARISMA - 3 (The sad fact about Cesaro is not only is his speaking/promo ability AWFUL, but he's been around long enough that if it was going to improve, you'd think it would have by now. The odd thing is that OUTSIDE of the ring--when he's used as a talking head on videos or WWE Network programming--Cesaro seems incredibly funny and personable)
TOTAL 18.5 (A HIGH 18.5, though, given that he is a borderline 10 in one category. I will watch Cesaro matches all damn day, but I dread an era where he's a main eventer having to give promos on a regular basis. I remember some promis he gave as the US champ, and they were atrocious; his recent "these four ropes" promo shows he hasn't developed from there)
« Last Edit: January 11, 2015, 09:47:58 PM by Not BAMF »

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Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2015, 11:48:30 AM »
Roman Reigns

LOOK 9 (Tall, Samoan, cool tats, handsome face no homo)
SKILL 6 (Better spear then Goldberg's by virtue of not legit killing people with it. I do penalize for stiffness.)
CHARISMA 3 (has potential but can't cut a promo without slipping up.)
TOTAL - 18 (hopefully this will rise as hes getting pushed as a top guy)

Not BAMF

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Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2015, 01:38:28 PM »
I was saving The Shield guys for a while, but since Reigns was brought up...

Roman Reigns
LOOK - 9 (He is tall and imposing, but not massive. And yeah, he is actually a really good looking guy while also managing to have a very intimidating look, too. He'd be a 10 if he was more classically large. It reminds me of Rusev in that... several years ago, Reigns is not a guy we'd all view as a monster)
SKILL - 5 (As a solo guy, he's been exposed as not having too much inherent ability, but he's not awful, either. He has never really HAD to wrestle a "classic", so it's hard to say how a match like that might go for him)
CHARISMA - 5.5 (Not a good speaker at all; we all know that. But I think he's a little better than he gets credit for--he isn't Cesaro-bad, but the IWC doesn't bash Cesaro over it--He has good in-ring charisma, too, with the Superman Punch theatrics that got over and his general excitement and intensity)
TOTAL - 19.5 (Still developing, and none of his scores are "bad", per se, so he could totally make it as a potential main eventer. Likely to get stale quickly, though)

Seth Rollins
LOOK - 7.5 (Since John Morrison is gone, Seth Rollins is my wife's new favorite wrestler. He's well-defined, as a distinctive look, and isn't as small as some others that have gotten over)
SKILL - 8.5 (It's a shame that his moveset and style have been reduced since he's been working as a heel, but Seth has some dynamic ringwork, and he is a great big spot guy, too. He sells really well, has decent moves, and is overall a lot of fun to watch)
CHARISMA - 8 (I never would have thought Seth would play Sniveling Heel so damn well, but he's really been hitting weekly home runs in this role. People talk about WWE being formulaic and predictable, but everyone "knew" that Ambrose would be the heel and Rollins the babyface when The Shield broke up; WWE saw the right way to go about it)
TOTAL - 24 (Yeah, he's properly being established as the Future of the company for years to come)

Dean Ambrose
LOOK - 4.5 (He's kind of goofy looking and still has some baby fat in his cheeks. It'd be lower based on his actual entire appearance, but he emotes REALLY well--though he sometimes creeps into Randy Orton territory of expressing so hard that he looks like an idiot)
SKILL - 8 (He's really good, but not great. His matches are high-paced with some good intensity, and Ambrose's matches are fun to watch)
CHARISMA - 9 (The whole "Ambrose is the new Stone Cold" is WAY overblown, but Ambrose is very charismatic in a chaotic sort of way. He really puts every bit of himself into his promos and speaking opportunities)
TOTAL - 21.5 (A really high score in the modern era. Dean SHOULD have a bright future if they'd quit burying him)

Necro

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Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2015, 01:48:03 PM »
Huh, I'm completely agreeing with Not Bamf and his opinions about the various wrestlers.
I'd give Dean Ambrose a slightly better score in looks, because he is actually a pretty big guy, it's just hard to see on TV, and I think he does really good with his look, but that's pretty much it.

Hey, Not Bamf, do the Wyatts, please.
I really want to see your thoughts about them.

herochat

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Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2015, 03:05:32 PM »
Imo, Adam Rose deserves at least a 7 in skill for that ridiculously sick spinebuster he's been breaking out lately. It's way better than HHH's, and if he keeps improving it he'll start creeping up on Arn (although no one will ever have a better spinebuster than Arn).


And I definitely agree with Not Bamf about the whole monster thing. And pushing Reigns as an unstoppable Superman powerhouse is fairly laughable. He and Seth Rollins are the same height, and Roman has maybe 25 pounds on him and a worse physique
The tree grows high but the oxygen fails to reach all the branches.


herochat

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Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2015, 03:06:05 PM »
And Big E looks like a fat retarded 6 year old and I hate him
The tree grows high but the oxygen fails to reach all the branches.


Imperial

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Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2015, 03:35:00 PM »
I like those writeups, agree with most and understand where the majority of the rest are coming from. But Barrett should be higher in skill.    ;D

Mediocre finisher and all, look at the roster. He's not on low side of average there and this is a workrate heavy era.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2015, 03:36:42 PM by Stratus »
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Imperial

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Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2015, 03:51:49 PM »
By the way, I think this is quite a fine writeup about Miz.

The Miz
LOOK - 5.5 ("Just A Guy" at BEST, but as you can tell, I lump the ability to emote facially in with look, and Miz is pretty great at that)
SKILL - 5.5 (He's barely more than "Just A Wrestler", but I give him credit for having worked his butt off to get to that point)
CHARISMA - 8.5 (Miz is a natural, fluid talker. He's gotten a few catchphrases CRAZY over, and I think people tend to downplay how hard he is currently working to help the Mizdow gimmick get over)
TOTAL - 19.5 (Low-end main eventer or king of the midcard range, which feels right for Miz. At this point, even though he is young, it feels like Miz has already accomplished all that he's going to, and is just going to be a body for years to come, which is sad)

I think that sums him up nicely. While I would never say Miz is a great wrestler, it's cool that you recognize he has worked hard and improved as such. Too many on the net still stick to the "He's an in ring fail reality star from a decade ago."
Thom Hartmann : "How can you have a functioning nation when you don't believe in science or education?"


Not BAMF

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Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2015, 06:18:33 PM »
By the way, I think this is quite a fine writeup about Miz.

The Miz
LOOK - 5.5 ("Just A Guy" at BEST, but as you can tell, I lump the ability to emote facially in with look, and Miz is pretty great at that)
SKILL - 5.5 (He's barely more than "Just A Wrestler", but I give him credit for having worked his butt off to get to that point)
CHARISMA - 8.5 (Miz is a natural, fluid talker. He's gotten a few catchphrases CRAZY over, and I think people tend to downplay how hard he is currently working to help the Mizdow gimmick get over)
TOTAL - 19.5 (Low-end main eventer or king of the midcard range, which feels right for Miz. At this point, even though he is young, it feels like Miz has already accomplished all that he's going to, and is just going to be a body for years to come, which is sad)

I think that sums him up nicely. While I would never say Miz is a great wrestler, it's cool that you recognize he has worked hard and improved as such. Too many on the net still stick to the "He's an in ring fail reality star from a decade ago."

I've heard too many other wrestlers say glowing things about Miz' work ethic and drive to not believe it's true. From all reports, he's got to be one of the 5 hardest workers on the roster, and you can't deny that drive to improve.


Huh, I'm completely agreeing with Not Bamf and his opinions about the various wrestlers.
I'd give Dean Ambrose a slightly better score in looks, because he is actually a pretty big guy, it's just hard to see on TV, and I think he does really good with his look, but that's pretty much it.

Hey, Not Bamf, do the Wyatts, please.
I really want to see your thoughts about them.

Sure thing; I'll do them next. I'll get back to this probably after the Colts/Broncos game is over.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2015, 06:27:46 PM by Not BAMF »