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Julian Assange(& new Ralph Nadar thoughts) : Why the Dem Party is doomed

Imperial

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http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1spvr6n?ref=patrick.net  (I did some snipping for space sake)

The Democratic establishment has vortexed the party's narrative energy into hysteria about Russia (a state with a lower GDP than South Korea). It is starkly obvious that were it not for this hysteria insurgent narratives of the type promoted by Bernie Sanders would rapidly dominate the party's base and its relationship with the public. Without the "We didn't lose--Russia won" narrative the party's elite and those who exist under its patronage would be purged for being electorally incompetent and ideologically passé. Unlike other industrialized countries US male real wages (all ethnic groups combined) have not increased since 1973.

The Democrat establishment needs the support of the security sector and media barons to push this diversionary conspiracy agenda, so they ingratiate themselves with these two classes leading to further perceptions that the Democrats act on behalf of an entrenched power elite.

The twin result is to place the primary self-interest concerns of most Americans, class competition, freedom from crime and ill health and the empowerment of their children, into the shadows and project the Democrats as close to DC and media elites. This has further cemented Trump's anti-establishment positioning and fettered attacks on Trump's run away embrace of robber barons, dictators and gravitas-free buffoons like the CIA's Mike Pompeo.

GOP/Trump has open goals everywhere: broken promises, inequality, economy, healthcare, militarization, Goldman Sachs, Saudi Arabia & cronyism, but the Democrat establishment can't kick these goals since the Russian collusion narrative has consumed all its energy and it is entangled with many of the same groups behind Trump's policies.   
« Last Edit: July 06, 2017, 08:24:09 PM by Imperial »


Thom Hartmann : "How can you have a functioning nation when you don't believe in science or education?"

therock

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Re: Julian Assange : Why the Democratic party is doomed
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2017, 11:18:43 PM »
Here the thing. Russia is imporanty but it shouldnt be the ONLY story

One can multi task. People say let the case conclunde natural..dont scream about it. But if they didnt scream about it would the case be as far as it was

Would Session still be on. Would Flynn have gotten in trouble. Would Nunes be part of the investigation.  If the Dems just simply shut the fuck up throughout this whole ordeal. Would we be hearing about Kunish stuff..which if not collusion...a clear conflict of interest. And a lot are talking about trump economic policies and heatlh care

Is there some Dems playing this for Poltiical reasons.  Yea Sure
Does that automaticl means the story is crap..no.  I mean it went from Russia didnt hack  the DNC there no proof..to ok but it wasnt Putin..to Ok...if it was Putin..to ok but none of Trump members were connected to it.  Ok lot of people have Russia conneciton but trump HIMSELF not under investigation. Now to Trump guys saying..even if he did it..its legal..somehow.


Republican have a couple of following edges.  Note not saying these edge are good things..but this is simply why they hard to beat

1) There people are consitent when it comes to coming out for the midterms.  Left dont. Reather it for Dems..or the 3rd parties they always say they want to build up

2) Dems tends to be stuck in cities..less spread out..which hurt them electorially

3) Conservative easier to win over then progressive. Sure they may primary someone..but when it comes to a Democrat vs Republican they tend to come out. So thus..they republicans plays to that group. Also because of that  Republicans in blue states can pivoito a little more. They have more flexibillity

While they dem in say a redder state has less of an option to do that without being called neoliberal. Not doesnt mean you always got to voter for a lesser of two evil.  Like not voting for a munich makes since. Or hell even a booker..or go one step further and pick someone people here dont like a Hillary.

But if It say a a Paul Ryan...running against Say a Warren..and your still mad she didnt back Bernie..maybe it time to let that shit go. Because it simply not enough Tulsa or Bernie to take up all the seats they need in 2018. People who check all the proegressive check list simply not enough of them..even if they primary the dems.  Now one could vote 3rd part..but then that goes back to point 1. Not to say all progressive voters like this. But enough where it gives The right the edge

4)  The nation generla more progressive then media thinks. But they not progressive on EVERY issue. Namley where it counts. So are for Free Health, free college but not so hot on immigration.  Some all for for immigration, free health care, but not so hot on raising the minum wage. A lot for the pipeline and and fracking. A lot for the banned. So it some case a purity test can kill you. What most doesnt seem to like is paying for it

The Affordable care act, has a lot of popular stuff. The only part is the mandate..the one thing that causes us to pay for it. People HATE taxes on themselves.  So dems NEED to start downplay Taxes = bad.  and stop pretending thois shit wont cost money. Yea healthy people may have to pay taxes to go to sick people. single childless people may have to pay for family leave. We need to sale that to people somehow

5) Republicans arent called out for SJW and idnenity politics as much as Dems are. Which is hard because some inddenity politics overlap with economic politics

6) The bar for compromise is very LOW for Republicans.  Remember when they said Obama need to reach out to the Republicans more. That the Health care bill need to be bi partisan.  Is trump or the republican being bi partisan with thier health care Bill..fuckes not even TRYING to be. The republican never demanded to comrpomise.  So to counter

7) Dems need to stop being pussies. They tried the olive brance only to get it shoved up their ass.

8) Lot of republican plans are short term benifits with long term consquences. Ending tons of regulaitons, fracking, the pipeline, Tax cuts for the rich..that actully MIGHT create some Jobs.  Maybe even put some money in people pockets. Long term it going to fuck up a planet

Well dems stuff like clean energy may take a bit. Solar enegy not as cheap as other forms of energy the same reason A horse used to more efficent then a Car used to be. Its new.  If we get single payer..for the first year or so it might be a mess. Becuase any new and large program will be a mess. But as years go on will love it

We might lose so coal Jobs in the process..but that going to go anyway...we HAVE to retrained those guys. Pretending life wont change it dooming them for generations.   Investment in free college is a costly..but the benifits will come out in a long term. Yes raising minium wage may raise the price of your taco..but in a long run it will be good

But it harder to sale LONG term sollutin where the first thing you will see is the cost

Uhtceare

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Re: Julian Assange : Why the Democratic party is doomed
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2017, 11:46:54 PM »
I was surprised to hear that many of these coal jobs, even at low levels, are extremely profitable, paying far, far more than comparable jobs in other industries. I didn't understand the reluctance to let the coal industry die before hearing that. Why not just get a job doing anything else, even working in a McDonalds? Uh-uh, coal is insanely more profitable than a McJob. These people aren't trying to survive. They are trying to preserve one of the few jobs out there that pays really well for uneducated labor.

Toilet Bunny

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Re: Julian Assange : Why the Democratic party is doomed
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2017, 11:49:10 PM »
The crazy part is that if we moved from coal to a cleaner energy source, not only would that be better for the environment but it would create even more jobs, but the 1% doesn't want to make that transition and the coal workers often don't realize they're being played.

As for the Dems, yeah, they're fucked.  The Russian narrative wasn't what they wanted it to be and most people see through them now.

therock

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Re: Julian Assange : Why the Democratic party is doomed
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2017, 12:12:30 AM »
one thing the Russian narrative doing is halting Trump progress on trumps horrible..horrible Bills. Because Republicans less scared of him..since dude may be impeach  and they perfer pence anyway

So it harder to force some moderate holds out on say the Health Care Bill..because they have no fear of him. Note I mean moderate in  a since..they dont want be OBVIOUSLY evil about it.


But one bad thing about Russia is..they not pay attention other BLANTANT crimes..like his conflict of interest and buisness dealings. Which seem pretty blatant..like what ivnak and kutchner up to. The hotel deal for one seem obvious.

Now one bad thing is impeachment that leads to Pence.  But that only happens if he guilty. And if he guilty..dont you kind of have to pence or no pence. Now the answer might be NO. But if more and more stuff come out in and blanetant manner...how much can one let slide.

nu-safado

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Re: Julian Assange : Why the Democratic party is doomed
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2017, 12:43:35 AM »
Trump is guilty.

Mueller has already assigned financial investigators to the cae and over time, the obvious truth will come out

Trump has defaulted so frequently and so badly that he couldn't secure financing in the US anymore. He went to shady Russian financiers and foreign investments to gain capital and build

He ran for President thinking he'd gt a lot of attention for whatever it was he planned next, surprised himself and the whole planet and won. Now he's stuck doing a job he doesn't like but that affords hi the status he's dreamed of his whole life and which is he is wholly unqualified for. Eventually financial transactions with Trump and Russia, Turkey or Saudi Arabia will be found and depending on how evil the Republicans feel that week he will be removed or not - but it will take some time.

The Dems and leftist parties around the world are seeing a disconnect between becoming a party that mainly champions social ideals while failing to have a viable plan for the lower and middle classes who likely care about social issues, but care about jobs a lot more. The longer the Dems rail against social isues and moral corruption the more disconnected they will be from the fact that if they offer financial guarantees or prospects, they'll win the Republican base back in a heartbeat

Panthergod

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Re: Julian Assange : Why the Democratic party is doomed
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2017, 12:22:59 PM »
Trump is guilty.

Mueller has already assigned financial investigators to the cae and over time, the obvious truth will come out

Trump has defaulted so frequently and so badly that he couldn't secure financing in the US anymore. He went to shady Russian financiers and foreign investments to gain capital and build

He ran for President thinking he'd gt a lot of attention for whatever it was he planned next, surprised himself and the whole planet and won. Now he's stuck doing a job he doesn't like but that affords hi the status he's dreamed of his whole life and which is he is wholly unqualified for. Eventually financial transactions with Trump and Russia, Turkey or Saudi Arabia will be found and depending on how evil the Republicans feel that week he will be removed or not - but it will take some time.

The Dems and leftist parties around the world are seeing a disconnect between becoming a party that mainly champions social ideals while failing to have a viable plan for the lower and middle classes who likely care about social issues, but care about jobs a lot more. The longer the Dems rail against social isues and moral corruption the more disconnected they will be from the fact that if they offer financial guarantees or prospects, they'll win the Republican base back in a heartbeat
Where's the info the FBI couldn't get access to that you can?

therock

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Re: Julian Assange : Why the Democratic party is doomed
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2017, 12:55:21 PM »
he at the least guilty of obstruction of Justice. Now he might of not been if he didnt openly admit to it multiple times. Sure it would still be a sense "Yea he kind of obstruction" but it would of been most Trump said, Comey Said at that point

Now it up to reather to let that slide.

superlurker

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Re: Julian Assange : Why the Democratic party is doomed
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2017, 02:02:38 PM »
Assange isn't wrong in his assertion that the Democratic Party ought to change its priorities to focus more on issues of economic equality.

However, he's an asshole and posting about this clearly looks self-interested. During the election, he was deliberately releasing leaks timed to harm the Clinton campaign. It's also very possible that he may have received material which to leak from the Russians. If that is the case, and were to be revealed from these investigations, he would look pretty bad. Even if it isn't the case, he clearly has a hate-boner for Clinton.

More in general, because of the extremely high level of partisanship in the U.S. now, a case like this would almost inevitably be a massive political focus even if the party had other priorities in general. It acts both as a way to score points against the opposing party and to shore up their own support. In a way, this goes back to the political environment engineered in large part by Newt Gingrich and Fox News, and not least to Trump himself where "winning" is more important than the content of the "win".

And, of course, to the Russians, this keeps being a very low-cost win.

Panthergod

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Re: Julian Assange : Why the Democratic party is doomed
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2017, 02:21:59 PM »
Assanges personality is irrelevant,  not his him being opposed to a known proven corrupt state sponsor of terrorism like Clinton who specifically sought for him to be kidnapped under false charges unreasonable. All sane people despise Clinton.

nu-safado

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Re: Julian Assange : Why the Democratic party is doomed
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2017, 04:49:21 PM »
Quote
Where's the info the FBI couldn't get access to that you can?

What info?

There's a Trump Towers in Turkey.

Trump was warned by the Obama administration that Flynn is a liability exactly because of his involvement with Turkey and possibly lobbying against Kurdish interests for Turkey. That alone should have disqualified him from the National Security Council

Also, even if you don't think it's fair to outright say Trump is guilty, he certainly ACTS guilty.

Why hide tax returns?
Why fire the FBI director?
Perhaps because he went on tv and said it was because of Russia?
Even if it wasn't election collusion, whch I honestly think is the least of it - of course the Russians wanted Trump to win, they're still benefitting from some minor disinoformation.

How could anyone see all of this and NOT think that something was up.

Common sense - Trump has bankrupted 4 times and left the major investment banks with significant losses because he flat-out refused to pay them back. He's kept on building though so where is the money coming come.

I doubt it's Deutshe Bank.

Smart money is on Russian financing or other governments as Trump Towers, golf courses and other projects were greenlit and made after his bakruptcy

Toilet Bunny

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Re: Julian Assange : Why the Democratic party is doomed
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2017, 06:18:47 PM »
Trump is probably guilty of conflict of interests.  It's bad, but the Dems are being ridiculous by acting as if we're in the second Cold War and the media has picked up on it for ratings.

I'd rather the Dems focus on cleaner water or police brutality.

LiquidSailor

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Re: Julian Assange : Why the Democratic party is doomed
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2017, 06:29:04 PM »
Without a majority, Dems can't do shit about clean water.  It will be polluted straight to Ganges status with Pruitt heading the EPA and Trump undoing those evil regulations.

DIGUSTING

Toilet Bunny

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Re: Julian Assange : Why the Democratic party is doomed
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2017, 07:14:41 PM »
I know there isn't much they can do but I think it was ups restore people's faith in the party if they focused on that.  A lot of people care about their day to day lives than if Trump did business with Russians.

LiquidSailor

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Re: Julian Assange : Why the Democratic party is doomed
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2017, 07:20:23 PM »
A lot of people are also morons and think that polluting streams and such is a great idea, until it directly affects them.

DIGUSTING