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Has it ever been outright stated that Marvel magic is all based on Nordic magic?

-K-M-

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Based on Eternity himself, not just "gods" assumptions. It was fact.

Riv1

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Based on Eternity himself, not just "gods" assumptions. It was fact.
Eternity's not infallible.

-K-M-

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So now we're approaching "I don't like it so I'm going to ignore it" territory.

Can't take ANY on-panel statements as fact using this logic 

MTL76

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No, but we're also not at the point of "It was stated in one story arc and so must be considered the absolute truth, even though it contradicts with events that preceded and follow it and was never referenced again."


Minority Shareholder, Combine Honnete Ober Advancer Mercantiles (CHOAM)

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-K-M-

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Didn't say it was standard (previous page). He is arguing statements are not fact and not fealible which is completely different. When the story went out of its way to hammer the point home through multiple issues not just a one off. In that story it was a fact. He says nope...can't trust statements and basicslly ignoring the entire point of the story. He said it was an assumption talisman and MI13 ("Some guy thinks and Talisman theorizes") which again if you read the stories it wasn't an assumption

Also let's see some contradictions for the sake of this thread. MI13 is a recent story and has anything come after that contradicts it? Alpha Flight story can totally buy more recent stuff retconned it as came out ages ago. However, again at the time it was fact

.....

Talisman is wearing the Talisman of Power which has the wisdom of the Gods and connected to Eternity. She would know. In MI13 they made several references and statements that it was the source of all magic. Not theory either

Now not saying this is the standard, but posting scans which refered to britian being the source of magic and Canada being source of dark magic. Things can get retconned and ignored. Such as the origins of man....every Marvel god says their responsible for creating mankind
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 11:43:32 AM by -K-M- »

Riv1

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So now we're approaching "I don't like it so I'm going to ignore it" territory.

Can't take ANY on-panel statements as fact using this logic
Not at all, i'm just not convinced from what you've put forth.
Just because ot was stated in one story, as theory, doesnt make it true.
MTL76 said it better, though.

-K-M-

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Which I said earlier it wasn't standard, but merely posted the scans that stated it. Now the issue is your comment saying it was "ambiguous" and  "Some guy thinks and Talisman theorizes" when again if you read the stories know it was fact. That is what I'm debating. Now has it been retconned? No clue. I have yet to see anything posted then my scans. Wouldn't be surprised about AF being since it was so long ago, but can't recall anything that takes precedent over MI13 unless you guys have something?

Again though I still don't get your guys logic. Superman lifted a planet for 5 days straight...ONCE. Does that mean its not factual and shall be ignored since it was stated and shown once? No. It has substance, and haven't seen much to rebuff with evidence other then nuh uh. So new rule a comment or feat has to be done three times or won't be fact?
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 06:10:35 PM by -K-M- »

Riv1

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Not a great analogy, or even accurate, as Supes was on a machine that sinulated the weight.
Anyhow, i've said mine, you've said yours, nothing more to be gained as fad as i can see.
Respect, man.

-K-M-

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You do realize in the stories Skrulls actually stole ALL the magic and llan entered through the dark magic nexus right? Wasn't just statements it was backed up by on panel showings. Just like the superman feat which was based on statements and on panel showing...but that only happened once

As I said if you read the stories you would know they were fact. Wasn't ambiguous at all. That's all I will say
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 06:14:39 PM by -K-M- »

MTL76

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Which I said earlier it wasn't standard, but merely posted the scans that stated it. Now the issue is your comment saying it was "ambiguous" and  "Some guy thinks and Talisman theorizes" when again if you read the stories know it was fact. That is what I'm debating. Now has it been retconned? No clue. I have yet to see anything posted then my scans. Wouldn't be surprised about AF being since it was so long ago, but can't recall anything that takes precedent over MI13 unless you guys have something?

Again though I still don't get your guys logic. Superman lifted a planet for 5 days straight...ONCE. Does that mean its not factual and shall be ignored since it was stated and shown once? No. It has substance, and haven't seen much to rebuff with evidence other then nuh uh. So new rule a comment or feat has to be done three times or won't be fact?

Good example. I would look at the following factors:

-Is it consistent with Superman's power set?
-Does Superman have other similar strength feats, or, as this was a relatively new version, was it consistent with previous versions of Superman?
-Have there been instances before or after this event that would contradict it or make it look like an outlier?
-Was there anything related to this feat that would suggest Superman was artificially augmented?
-Does it radically diverge with previous well-established canon, i.e. are Kryptonians generally strong under the rays of a yellow sun?

And so on.

You are referencing a story that states a fact that:

a) seems to conflict with how magic has been presented in the MU previously
b) does not align with how magic has been presented in the MU subsequently
c) has not been referenced since

So while I'm not shitting on your scans, they also don't hold too much weight in terms of being the be-all, end-all source of how magic in the MU works, and which you seemed to suggest in your original post.


Minority Shareholder, Combine Honnete Ober Advancer Mercantiles (CHOAM)

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-K-M-

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Concerning Superman no he hasn't replicated that feat (Brianiac ship would be closest feat). Has anyone referenced it again? No. Yes there have been many showings that contradict that showing. This was his first biggest strength feat of the new 52. However, no one simply dismisses it because it happened once.

again where are the contradictions or more current showings? As I'm sure AF retconned there must be something more recent, but can't recall anything. MI13 is a recent story and has anything contradicted it? Again it's well established Merlin and Otherworld is a HUGE magic hub in the Marvel universe and been in many stories. Concerning AF Talisman provided several examples and the odds of all these magical beings constantly coming out of Canada so you can literally look at the entire AF vol 1 as evidence to support Canada being a dark magic nexus...again that was then. Is there anything recent that contradicts it? I wouldn't be shocked since it's been decades. Again NEVER SAID IT WAS THE BE ALL end-all source of how magic in the MU works but merely posted the scans that stated it. I was debating the fact it was said to be a theory or ambiguous...when it wasn't. At the time that was the standard. Is it now? No clue. Then also asked for the thread sake to provide evidence that contradicts them *shrugs*
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 06:56:31 PM by -K-M- »

Riv1

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You do realize in the stories Skrulls actually stole ALL the magic and llan entered through the dark magic nexus right? Wasn't just statements it was backed up by on panel showings. Just like the superman feat which was based on statements and on panel showing...but that only happened once

As I said if you read the stories you would know they were fact. Wasn't ambiguous at all. That's all I will say
You keep repeating that last like it makes a difference.
I read the AF issue (i have the whole series mothballed). Aaaanyhow, you argued your point well, i just dont agree with it.

Red Exodus

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The reason why I call bullshit on those two statements -KM-, is that there are various sources of magic in Marvel that are not from Avalon
and its been shown, stated, etc. throughout the course of Marvel's history. By the statement of "ALL" that means that the scene you're showing
from Alpha Flight contradicts the MI13 comic, because Dark Magic is still "magic", and if Avalon is the source of "ALL" magic, it means Dark
Magic must come from there too, which multiple other sources show otherwise.

Keep in mind that in Uncanny X-Men, its said that "Otherworld" is the source of all magic. So...yeah. I wouldn't take what's said in the comic
to heart.

Multiple characters grab magic from external sources (The Dark Dimension, Hell, Limbo, Heaven, Asgard), as well as beings (Dormammu,
Mephisto, Agamotto, Cytorak, The Great Evil Beasts) etc.), and mystical objects themselves (Norn Stones, Mjolnir, Soulsword, etc.)

Gree

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Nice thread and discussion here

-K-M-

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Sorry crazy day. Boss just quit.

@red. I agree with most of what you said. Again said the scans wernt standard more debated the fact they were ambiguous or theory. Also don't agree with the assertion if it's said only once it doesn't hold much weight. Again didn't say they were gospel

I'll go in more depth reply tomorrow. It's been a hectic long day
« Last Edit: June 28, 2017, 07:24:56 AM by -K-M- »