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Is SHIELD being overdone?

MTL76

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Is SHIELD being overdone?
« on: June 12, 2017, 08:24:21 PM »
As the title asks, is SHIELD being used too often in current Marvel?

I remember way back when I was a kid, SHIELD was a true spy organization. Outside of a miniseries dedicated to them (the Nick Fury, Agent of SHIELD one comes to mind), it felt like they were rarely seen or heard from. That meant that when they did show up, it was noteworthy. When SHIELD was hunting down Alex in the Amazing Spider-Man #130, it felt like A Big Deal. When the Helicarrier (not a helicarrier, THE Helicarrier) showed up, it was A Big Deal. They would appear in some monthlies more than others, but they were usually depicted as being a covert group.

Nowadays, says Grandpa MTL76, SHIELD is fucking everywhere. They show up every single month, in multiple titles. It seems like the Avengers are on their payroll, and they have every major superhero on their speed dial. They know every hero's secret identity. If a superhero fucks up, or needs someone to pick up a defeated bad guy, all they have to do is whistle and one of dozens of SHIELD helicarriers descends from the heavens in seconds. I can't remember a major battle in which SHIELD didn't show up at the end to lead the bad guys off to the Vault, or the Raft, or the Armoire.

It's fucking annoying and I don't like it.


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AP

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Re: Is SHIELD being overdone?
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2017, 09:18:38 PM »
I think it makes sense.  An organization like that would likely be all up in peoples' biz.

MTL76

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Re: Is SHIELD being overdone?
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2017, 09:56:44 PM »
See, I don't like all the different titles being tied together so closely. I like them seperate... but equal. This way when they do cross over it's special.

SHIELD ruins that by sticking their damn noses in everything. Fuck 'em. Give me Henry Gyrich or Valerie Cooper any day.


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Gree

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Re: Is SHIELD being overdone?
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2017, 10:51:42 PM »
I agree with MTL

Thanos6

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Re: Is SHIELD being overdone?
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2017, 06:29:26 AM »
Personally, I think SHIELD is best used outside of their own titles in two ways:

1) Hint-droppers.  Let's say Spider-Man or somebody is investigating a crime, but is out of clues; or tracking a villain, but has lost the trail.  Nick Fury, or some other SHIELD agent, "coincidentally" runs into them and gives them just enough of a nudge in the right direction to get things going again. "Last time we heard of something like this happening, Lightmaster was involved. That's not saying he is now, but..." Or "Killer Shrike, huh? You know, our last information had him hiding out around Pier 38. That's off-the-record, of course."  Nothing so big they steal the hero's spotlight, just enough to establish that they know pretty much everything and will use that information discreetly and benevolently.  Sort of like a session of D&D when the players are stumped, the DM has an NPC wander by who just happens to drop off something that gets them realizing what the solution is.

2) Villain pick-up and base clean-up.  When the hero has beaten the villain, but has no particular way to get them safely to prison or the Vault or whatever, that's a good time for the hero to dial SHIELD up.  Likewise if the villain's high-tech base needs to be secured and dismantled so the villain can't use it again in his next scheme.
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Clownprince23

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Re: Is SHIELD being overdone?
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2017, 06:58:17 AM »
They've become a deus ex machina. An easy way out for a writer to either push a story along or tidy things up afterwards.

The problem then becomes that if they have that much reach and influence then it doesn't make sense for them to not show up in some stories. I re read the Bendis/Brubaker Daredevil, and SHIELD not interfering more then they did seemed out of place. If there is such huge over reaching organization then why would you go into  situations alone? Or allow huge battles to take place in the middle of the street?
Makes it harder to tell a single solo story.

Reminds me of every time I played a super hero rpg. There was always some kind organization there to keep the characters moving a certain way. To either provide missions, drop hints to nudge the players, or tidy things up afterwards.

Whiskeyclone

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Re: Is SHIELD being overdone?
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2017, 11:00:26 AM »
It makes sense, and, if anything, they seem to mostly get portrayed as screw-ups to borderline villains these days. They defintely were the last two times I read them (New Avengers, the Pleasant Hill thing).

MTL76

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Re: Is SHIELD being overdone?
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2017, 05:40:51 PM »
The ubiquity of SHIELD and their authority over superheroes gives the Marvel universe a darker feel.


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g-train

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Re: Is SHIELD being overdone?
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2017, 10:45:59 PM »
Well they did pop up from time to time but before they were all pretty much kept busy by having to deal with the "evil" versions of SHIELD, Hydra, Secret Empire, Klaw and the other super tech. terrorists that pop up from time to time to have a lot of time for every day super villainy.

But I can understand the feel; like Spider-Man and Wolverine in the Avengers.

It's like; considering how well everybody knows everybody now.

Kind of hard to justify them ever running alone, at the very least when they are hanging out inside of New York.

Thanos6

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Re: Is SHIELD being overdone?
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2017, 11:15:43 PM »
Its no worse than Waller and all the smaller organizations st DC.
Comics really cant be written nowadays without that kind of presence in the books.

That's one thing I appreciate about indy comics. They're not afraid to change the world outside the window.

So if the government tries to force superheroes to work for them, the heroes might rebel by destroying the NSA (or whatever), or even flat-out overthrowing the government if they get too nasty. Which Marvel or DC would never do in their main continuities.

I mean, when Maria Hill tried to arrest Cap for refusing to follow a law that HADN'T EVEN BEEN PASSED YET, can you imagine if the Avengers had replied by taking out SHIELD? It would have been glorious.
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g-train

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Re: Is SHIELD being overdone?
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2017, 12:16:41 AM »
Its no worse than Waller and all the smaller organizations st DC.
Comics really cant be written nowadays without that kind of presence in the books.

That's one thing I appreciate about indy comics. They're not afraid to change the world outside the window.

So if the government tries to force superheroes to work for them, the heroes might rebel by destroying the NSA (or whatever), or even flat-out overthrowing the government if they get too nasty. Which Marvel or DC would never do in their main continuities.

I mean, when Maria Hill tried to arrest Cap for refusing to follow a law that HADN'T EVEN BEEN PASSED YET, can you imagine if the Avengers had replied by taking out SHIELD? It would have been glorious.

When have been a good way to kick off the Civil War and maybe even justify Cap's position in it as a character I mean, essentially getting forced into leadership of a role he didn't quite want.

shadowknight

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Re: Is SHIELD being overdone?
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2017, 09:10:48 AM »
Its no worse than Waller and all the smaller organizations st DC.
Comics really cant be written nowadays without that kind of presence in the books.

That's one thing I appreciate about indy comics. They're not afraid to change the world outside the window.

So if the government tries to force superheroes to work for them, the heroes might rebel by destroying the NSA (or whatever), or even flat-out overthrowing the government if they get too nasty. Which Marvel or DC would never do in their main continuities.

I mean, when Maria Hill tried to arrest Cap for refusing to follow a law that HADN'T EVEN BEEN PASSED YET, can you imagine if the Avengers had replied by taking out SHIELD? It would have been glorious.
That storyline was explored briefly in DCU yrs ago. Outside of where SM became a stooge for the gov't in the DKU the Gov't came to the conclusion they didn't have the power to force the JL to do it's bidding and dropped  the  idea.

Thanos6

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Re: Is SHIELD being overdone?
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2017, 02:32:37 AM »
They should have had the guts to go full-on SQUADRON SUPREME.  "All right, you idiots have shown you have no idea how to run things. We're taking over now."
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g-train

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Re: Is SHIELD being overdone?
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2017, 02:14:46 PM »
Only problem with Marvel & DC doing that in maistream books, is that they cease to be 'the world outside your window'.

I'm perfectly happy just seeing these ideas explored out of continuity.

Honestly; having the mainstream guys do it at this point almost seems out of character.

Have no group pop up under "The Order" moniker again or some such thing.

MTL76

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Re: Is SHIELD being overdone?
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2017, 09:57:00 PM »
Basically, SHIELD seems like a bunch of supercops instead of a covert espionage organization.


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