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Bill Mahr dropping N-Bombs on live TV

NeoGreenLantern

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Re: Bill Mahr dropping N-Bombs on live TV
« Reply #60 on: June 15, 2017, 12:06:30 PM »
First of all, Native American reservations tend to be in even worse shape than black neighborhoods.  They just don't get the coverage.

Secondly, most blacks were brought over as slaves whereas most Asians, Hispanics, etc. came over as cheap labor.  They were still oppressed and everything, but at least they were able to make a living and save up for their families.  It's hard to save up if the first few generations of your family were slaves.

To add onto that there was instances where the government actively held back black people. Voters rights, segregation, the connection between the CIA and rise of crack in African American communities, Tuskegee, Cancer irradiation experiments, etc, etc, etc. You really don't see this kind of stuff with other races except, like you said, Natives Americans.

None of that matters Neo. Apparently, Black people in this country just didn't work hard enough. Period.

80% of black people in the US are middle class and up.

To think of Black People as "needing saving" is kind of the bizarro-verse liberal version of conservatives who think Black People are all "Ghetto-Thugs".

Majority of black people got their shit together and live normal lives.

Sure some problems with crime but could probably break it down to a few specific cities, chicago, atlanta, new york and whatever.

If you can narrow the crime focus to just 4 cities, starts to look like....."why does the specific cultures of black people in those specific cities be so crime prone?" versus black people as a whole.

Black people might not "need saving" but that doesn't change the fact their has been a lot more shit tossed on the black community than other communities in this country. The fact that 80% of African Americans are middle class and up is a testament to Black people and not a sign they don't really have it that bad. I wouldn't be surprised if every person in that 80% has at least one story where they were treated as a second class because they are black.

80sBaby

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Re: Bill Mahr dropping N-Bombs on live TV
« Reply #61 on: June 15, 2017, 12:21:30 PM »
First of all, Native American reservations tend to be in even worse shape than black neighborhoods.  They just don't get the coverage.

Secondly, most blacks were brought over as slaves whereas most Asians, Hispanics, etc. came over as cheap labor.  They were still oppressed and everything, but at least they were able to make a living and save up for their families.  It's hard to save up if the first few generations of your family were slaves.

To add onto that there was instances where the government actively held back black people. Voters rights, segregation, the connection between the CIA and rise of crack in African American communities, Tuskegee, Cancer irradiation experiments, etc, etc, etc. You really don't see this kind of stuff with other races except, like you said, Natives Americans.

None of that matters Neo. Apparently, Black people in this country just didn't work hard enough. Period.

80% of black people in the US are middle class and up.

To think of Black People as "needing saving" is kind of the bizarro-verse liberal version of conservatives who think Black People are all "Ghetto-Thugs".

Majority of black people got their shit together and live normal lives.

Sure some problems with crime but could probably break it down to a few specific cities, chicago, atlanta, new york and whatever.

If you can narrow the crime focus to just 4 cities, starts to look like....."why does the specific cultures of black people in those specific cities be so crime prone?" versus black people as a whole.

Nobody claimed we "needed saving" so spare me the strawman. The question asked was why are African-Americans "unable to succeed"? Which I don't think is a good question since we have achieved a good amount of success, in spite of the obstacles in our path. Now, if PB meant "Why has it been harder for African-Americans to succeed than other races?" then the answer is what Neo said.

80sBaby

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Re: Bill Mahr dropping N-Bombs on live TV
« Reply #62 on: June 15, 2017, 12:22:59 PM »
The fallacy that needs to stop is that other races had it just as bad as African-Americans. This simply isn't true (with the exception of Native Americans and that's been addressed.)

Pillow Biter

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Re: Bill Mahr dropping N-Bombs on live TV
« Reply #63 on: June 15, 2017, 12:25:20 PM »
I could have phrased it better than "unable to succeed". But you get what I mean. I do think that at least in terms of relative performance to other ethnic groups, some may have been taking a bit of an overly rosy view of things.

80sBaby

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Re: Bill Mahr dropping N-Bombs on live TV
« Reply #64 on: June 15, 2017, 12:28:53 PM »
I could have phrased it better than "unable to succeed". But you get what I mean. I do think that at least in terms of relative performance to other ethnic groups, some may have been taking a bit of an overly rosy view of things.


Yeah I figured what your point actually was, which is why I clarified it in my comment.

Pillow Biter

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Re: Bill Mahr dropping N-Bombs on live TV
« Reply #65 on: June 15, 2017, 12:36:13 PM »
The fallacy that needs to stop is that other races had it just as bad as African-Americans. This simply isn't true (with the exception of Native Americans and that's been addressed.)

That seems obvious to me. I agree. Though it's unclear exactly how much that affects the current situation. I wonder how much it matters that most other ethnic groups come from fully developed cultures unique to their community. And those groups also have a connection to countries where they are a majority to help reinforce the cultural elements they want to maintain in America.

Blacks, on the other hand, have at best a semi-culture built upon White culture. What connection they have to Africa has long since been severed; and even if the connection had been maintained, Africa is, unfortunately, so dysfunctional as to provide little inspiration.

Success for immigrant groups requires unnatural levels of sacrifice. To some degree, you often have to make your own life suck to advance the group's cause, leaving a better future for the next generation. It is not easy--it's very unnatural--to be Moses and lead the next group to the land of milk and honey while you remain just short of that goal. It needs a strong culture that you really feel comfortable with to push people to the point where they can sacrifice for future generations like this. I'm talking broadly and statistically here. Of course there are many individual exceptions. 

g-train

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Re: Bill Mahr dropping N-Bombs on live TV
« Reply #66 on: June 15, 2017, 02:01:50 PM »
First of all, Native American reservations tend to be in even worse shape than black neighborhoods.  They just don't get the coverage.

Secondly, most blacks were brought over as slaves whereas most Asians, Hispanics, etc. came over as cheap labor.  They were still oppressed and everything, but at least they were able to make a living and save up for their families.  It's hard to save up if the first few generations of your family were slaves.

To add onto that there was instances where the government actively held back black people. Voters rights, segregation, the connection between the CIA and rise of crack in African American communities, Tuskegee, Cancer irradiation experiments, etc, etc, etc. You really don't see this kind of stuff with other races except, like you said, Natives Americans.

None of that matters Neo. Apparently, Black people in this country just didn't work hard enough. Period.

80% of black people in the US are middle class and up.

To think of Black People as "needing saving" is kind of the bizarro-verse liberal version of conservatives who think Black People are all "Ghetto-Thugs".

Majority of black people got their shit together and live normal lives.

Sure some problems with crime but could probably break it down to a few specific cities, chicago, atlanta, new york and whatever.

If you can narrow the crime focus to just 4 cities, starts to look like....."why does the specific cultures of black people in those specific cities be so crime prone?" versus black people as a whole.

Black people might not "need saving" but that doesn't change the fact their has been a lot more shit tossed on the black community than other communities in this country. The fact that 80% of African Americans are middle class and up is a testament to Black people and not a sign they don't really have it that bad. I wouldn't be surprised if every person in that 80% has at least one story where they were treated as a second class because they are black.

Really?

People were bombing Asian restaurants and lynching them too if you've forgotten and even had a state that was approaching Asian majority until white people got tired of it.

Kind of disingenuous to say other communities haven't gotten the same amount when for a lot of US history they practically didn't exist for all intents and purposes.

Don't forgot Polynesians; 3% of all hate crimes go towards them and there's only around 800, 000 of those guys even in our country.

Which is maybe 1/3rd of one percent of the US population?

So that puts them at what 13x over represented versus black people's 3x or so?

The only other even mainstream population for most of US history outside of black people "was" Native Americans.

Have to imagine that nowadays Arabs don't get it so good either.

g-train

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Re: Bill Mahr dropping N-Bombs on live TV
« Reply #67 on: June 15, 2017, 02:04:19 PM »
First of all, Native American reservations tend to be in even worse shape than black neighborhoods.  They just don't get the coverage.

Secondly, most blacks were brought over as slaves whereas most Asians, Hispanics, etc. came over as cheap labor.  They were still oppressed and everything, but at least they were able to make a living and save up for their families.  It's hard to save up if the first few generations of your family were slaves.

To add onto that there was instances where the government actively held back black people. Voters rights, segregation, the connection between the CIA and rise of crack in African American communities, Tuskegee, Cancer irradiation experiments, etc, etc, etc. You really don't see this kind of stuff with other races except, like you said, Natives Americans.

None of that matters Neo. Apparently, Black people in this country just didn't work hard enough. Period.

80% of black people in the US are middle class and up.

To think of Black People as "needing saving" is kind of the bizarro-verse liberal version of conservatives who think Black People are all "Ghetto-Thugs".

Majority of black people got their shit together and live normal lives.

Sure some problems with crime but could probably break it down to a few specific cities, chicago, atlanta, new york and whatever.

If you can narrow the crime focus to just 4 cities, starts to look like....."why does the specific cultures of black people in those specific cities be so crime prone?" versus black people as a whole.

Nobody claimed we "needed saving" so spare me the strawman. The question asked was why are African-Americans "unable to succeed"? Which I don't think is a good question since we have achieved a good amount of success, in spite of the obstacles in our path. Now, if PB meant "Why has it been harder for African-Americans to succeed than other races?" then the answer is what Neo said.

It's pretty implicit in the question itself; saying "why are they unable to succeed" kind of implies as a group that's an issue.

Not as a minority.

By comparison white people are 9/10 vs Black People's 8/10; but no one would even think to ask "why are white people unable to succeed" despite having extremely similar levels of economic success.

Considering that land and housing often cost less in black neighborhoods and a lot of the black population exists in the south (65%) that one extra 1/10 may not mean anything at all.

Just an indication of liberal racism; but instead of hating they pity.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2017, 02:09:04 PM by g-train »

g-train

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Re: Bill Mahr dropping N-Bombs on live TV
« Reply #68 on: June 15, 2017, 02:05:27 PM »
The fallacy that needs to stop is that other races had it just as bad as African-Americans. This simply isn't true (with the exception of Native Americans and that's been addressed.)

"Had it" just as bad; main thing is we aren't talking about the distant past or even 50 years ago.

Talking about today; the last few decades.

The old reasons don't apply anymore.

NeoGreenLantern

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Re: Bill Mahr dropping N-Bombs on live TV
« Reply #69 on: June 15, 2017, 04:52:02 PM »
First of all, Native American reservations tend to be in even worse shape than black neighborhoods.  They just don't get the coverage.

Secondly, most blacks were brought over as slaves whereas most Asians, Hispanics, etc. came over as cheap labor.  They were still oppressed and everything, but at least they were able to make a living and save up for their families.  It's hard to save up if the first few generations of your family were slaves.

To add onto that there was instances where the government actively held back black people. Voters rights, segregation, the connection between the CIA and rise of crack in African American communities, Tuskegee, Cancer irradiation experiments, etc, etc, etc. You really don't see this kind of stuff with other races except, like you said, Natives Americans.

None of that matters Neo. Apparently, Black people in this country just didn't work hard enough. Period.

80% of black people in the US are middle class and up.

To think of Black People as "needing saving" is kind of the bizarro-verse liberal version of conservatives who think Black People are all "Ghetto-Thugs".

Majority of black people got their shit together and live normal lives.

Sure some problems with crime but could probably break it down to a few specific cities, chicago, atlanta, new york and whatever.

If you can narrow the crime focus to just 4 cities, starts to look like....."why does the specific cultures of black people in those specific cities be so crime prone?" versus black people as a whole.

Black people might not "need saving" but that doesn't change the fact their has been a lot more shit tossed on the black community than other communities in this country. The fact that 80% of African Americans are middle class and up is a testament to Black people and not a sign they don't really have it that bad. I wouldn't be surprised if every person in that 80% has at least one story where they were treated as a second class because they are black.

Really?

People were bombing Asian restaurants and lynching them too if you've forgotten and even had a state that was approaching Asian majority until white people got tired of it.

Kind of disingenuous to say other communities haven't gotten the same amount when for a lot of US history they practically didn't exist for all intents and purposes.

Don't forgot Polynesians; 3% of all hate crimes go towards them and there's only around 800, 000 of those guys even in our country.

Which is maybe 1/3rd of one percent of the US population?

So that puts them at what 13x over represented versus black people's 3x or so?

The only other even mainstream population for most of US history outside of black people "was" Native Americans.

Have to imagine that nowadays Arabs don't get it so good either.

I'm not saying other races don't have their own issues its just that historically Blacks and Natives have had it the worst. Japanese next. Now Mexicans and Middle Easterners are the new hot shit to hate on.

And you really don't need to explain to me the negative treatment of the Polynesian people get. As a spam lover who's country is probably going to disappear due to climate change I'm pretty sure I have an grasp on it.

NeoGreenLantern

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Re: Bill Mahr dropping N-Bombs on live TV
« Reply #70 on: June 15, 2017, 04:54:45 PM »
Speaking of which did anyone watch the season opener for Fear the Walking Dead? That shit hit so close to home for me it gave me a bit of anxiety.

80sBaby

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Re: Bill Mahr dropping N-Bombs on live TV
« Reply #71 on: June 15, 2017, 04:57:38 PM »
Quote
I'm not saying other races don't have their own issues its just that historically Blacks and Natives have had it the worst.

He's purposely missing this point, which was brought up twice now. He's also downplaying how far reaching the effects of what was done to African Americans can have on the psyche, which affects social issues, even current ones.

NeoGreenLantern

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Re: Bill Mahr dropping N-Bombs on live TV
« Reply #72 on: June 15, 2017, 05:41:29 PM »
Close I've had my ethnicity questioned by authorities before  and had almost the exact same conversation Travis had. Sadly it did not end in a pit fight.

NeoGreenLantern

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Re: Bill Mahr dropping N-Bombs on live TV
« Reply #73 on: June 15, 2017, 06:05:56 PM »
A few years back I was coming back from Mexico with my wife. Customs grilled the shit out of me asking me questions for like 15 minutes. They asked my wife one question, "Are you with this man under duress?"

I've also gotten my bags randomly searched almost every time I've been on a flight. I think I'm rocking a 75%. People seem to get thrown off by a brown person with a very white name.

AP

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Re: Bill Mahr dropping N-Bombs on live TV
« Reply #74 on: June 15, 2017, 06:18:58 PM »
I've also gotten my bags randomly searched almost every time I've been on a flight. I think I'm rocking a 75%. People seem to get thrown off by a brown person with a very white name.

Blame your parents for naming you Preston.