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Bill Mahr dropping N-Bombs on live TV

80sBaby

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Re: Bill Mahr dropping N-Bombs on live TV
« Reply #60 on: June 15, 2017, 04:57:38 PM »
Quote
I'm not saying other races don't have their own issues its just that historically Blacks and Natives have had it the worst.

He's purposely missing this point, which was brought up twice now. He's also downplaying how far reaching the effects of what was done to African Americans can have on the psyche, which affects social issues, even current ones.

NeoGreenLantern

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Re: Bill Mahr dropping N-Bombs on live TV
« Reply #61 on: June 15, 2017, 05:41:29 PM »
Close I've had my ethnicity questioned by authorities before  and had almost the exact same conversation Travis had. Sadly it did not end in a pit fight.

NeoGreenLantern

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Re: Bill Mahr dropping N-Bombs on live TV
« Reply #62 on: June 15, 2017, 06:05:56 PM »
A few years back I was coming back from Mexico with my wife. Customs grilled the shit out of me asking me questions for like 15 minutes. They asked my wife one question, "Are you with this man under duress?"

I've also gotten my bags randomly searched almost every time I've been on a flight. I think I'm rocking a 75%. People seem to get thrown off by a brown person with a very white name.

Toilet Bunny

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Re: Bill Mahr dropping N-Bombs on live TV
« Reply #63 on: June 15, 2017, 06:18:58 PM »
I've also gotten my bags randomly searched almost every time I've been on a flight. I think I'm rocking a 75%. People seem to get thrown off by a brown person with a very white name.

Blame your parents for naming you Preston.

Pillow Biter

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Re: Bill Mahr dropping N-Bombs on live TV
« Reply #64 on: June 16, 2017, 06:07:00 AM »
A problem I have with political correctness is it assumes that all races and populations are essentially the same under the skin. So while individuals may vary, the law of large numbers suggests, under the PC Creed, that if a group or race is underperforming it must be solely caused by discrimination. This makes it difficult to identify and address the problem.

I tend to be very humble in the face of the overwhelming complexity of human affairs. I have no preconceived notion that we are all the same. I honestly don't know why Blacks are having such difficulties, both in and outside of America. My suspicion is that just like genders, races do have, statistically, different characteristics under the hood, from personality traits to cognitive and physical abilities. And just as we are seeing with male underperformance in schools, different groups may be better or less adapted to specific environments. For example, while the modern education architecture (and even working world) were created by men for men, once women were freed from the chains of systemic discrimination in school, they quickly surged ahead of men. Girls are clearly better suited to the current schooling environment. They may also be better suited to the majority of modern work environments. It could be that some races are genetically and/or culturally better suited to the modern world.

I should be clear that it seems likely that genetic and cultural elements are both at play. And discrimination. It's likely a complex stew with many ingredients.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2017, 06:19:43 AM by Pillow Biter »

scourge

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Re: Bill Mahr dropping N-Bombs on live TV
« Reply #65 on: June 16, 2017, 08:06:23 AM »
Seems reasonable, but possibly a slippery slope. So the theory has external plausability but in order to make sense of it, you have to test these components, tease them apart. And how would you? Say you did a study that one race performs better academically-- how do you element cultural elements? You can control of socio-economic status perhaps, but that's not really the major issue. Say you did find evidence to support the hypothesis, people would take that ball and run with it in some terrible directions. This is much more likely than someone using those findings in a constructive way. So at the end of the day I think the issue is too fraught with very prevalent societal constructs that will get either upset at the study or use it as a justification. How do you not create a lose/lose from this? Just seems like a hornets nest.

80sBaby

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Re: Bill Mahr dropping N-Bombs on live TV
« Reply #66 on: June 16, 2017, 08:12:21 AM »
Seems reasonable, but possibly a slippery slope. So the theory has external plausability but in order to make sense of it, you have to test these components, tease them apart. And how would you? Say you did a study that one race performs better academically-- how do you element cultural elements? You can control of socio-economic status perhaps, but that's not really the major issue. Say you did find evidence to support the hypothesis, people would take that ball and run with it in some terrible directions. This is much more likely than someone using those findings in a constructive way. So at the end of the day I think the issue is too fraught with very prevalent societal constructs that will get either upset at the study or use it as a justification. How do you not create a lose/lose from this? Just seems like a hornets nest.

Agreed. You'd never be able to separate things enough to get a clear idea of what is based on genetics, as opposed to all the other factors involved.

Pillow Biter

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Re: Bill Mahr dropping N-Bombs on live TV
« Reply #67 on: June 16, 2017, 09:37:40 AM »
Agreed that much may be untestable. We'll see.

However, I think you have things backwards. In a situation where it's difficult to know what's what, the natural posture to adopt is of being open to all possibilities. It's the PC crowd who are assuming they know what is nature and what is nurture--despite professing the opposite--by basically saying our assumption should be that all factors are societal, and none genetic. I'm open to the possibility that it all environmental, just as I'm open to the possibility that it is a mix of factors, or that it is primarily genetic. Right now, the best guess given what we know is that it's a mix of both genetic and environmental factors, with at least significant elements of both. But it is important to always keep in mind that this is just the best guess, and to be aware of the limitations, in general, of the current science.

80sBaby

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Re: Bill Mahr dropping N-Bombs on live TV
« Reply #68 on: June 16, 2017, 09:51:32 AM »
Humans don't work like that, though. It'd be nice if everyone could be completely logical and dethatched from things, as you suggest, but it isn't going to happen. Ever.

And it's not just the "PC crowd" but folks on the other side who would totally use any findings to fuel their own hatred of others. They've already proven they will do so by past actions so, moving forward, it makes sense to be a little more careful when speaking about inherent inferiority/superiority of different races.

Pillow Biter

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Re: Bill Mahr dropping N-Bombs on live TV
« Reply #69 on: June 16, 2017, 09:54:43 AM »
I am not one who believes in absolutes, including in absolute truth. There may have been a case for adopting a form of Plato's Noble Lie and simply assuming all racial differences were caused by controllable, environmental factors. Lies always have costs, but that price may have been worth it to promote fairness and racial harmony. It's logical to take into account human limitations, and we know what damage many people will do exaggerating and misconstruing any kind of admission of genetic racial differences.

However, there's no point paying the price of such a lie when the lie won't work anymore. I think we are approaching that point. Science is advancing rapidly in these areas, and the internet ensures that this kind of information eventually surfaces, in one form or another. The case that genetics is at the root of many differences is likely going to keep growing stronger and stronger in coming years, though we will likely remain far from knowing exactly what causes what, or the exact interplay between the environment and our genetic heritage in determining what kind of person one becomes.

It seems to me that we are going to have to find and adopt a new approach for dealing with the science. We can't keep putting our heads in the sand, or demanding absolute certainty before modifying any of our best estimates about things. We have to get to the point where we simply don't really care, intrinsically, about what group differences science unearths. We only care insofar as it is useful. We have to get to a point where it doesn't change our ability to treat someone as both and individual and a member of a given community. And no differences in intelligence, emotional tendencies, or any other characteristics should alter the basic human requirement to be kind, just, and charitable--after all, in the end, that's more about ourselves than others. Kindness really is its own reward.

therock

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Re: Bill Mahr dropping N-Bombs on live TV
« Reply #70 on: June 16, 2017, 11:33:23 PM »
Agreed that much may be untestable. We'll see.

However, I think you have things backwards. In a situation where it's difficult to know what's what, the natural posture to adopt is of being open to all possibilities. It's the PC crowd who are assuming they know what is nature and what is nurture--despite professing the opposite--by basically saying our assumption should be that all factors are societal, and none genetic. I'm open to the possibility that it all environmental, just as I'm open to the possibility that it is a mix of factors, or that it is primarily genetic. Right now, the best guess given what we know is that it's a mix of both genetic and environmental factors, with at least significant elements of both. But it is important to always keep in mind that this is just the best guess, and to be aware of the limitations, in general, of the current science.

It all depends on how you read a science. There were a lot of racist shit in genetic science about the negro heads been shape different making thier brain inferior..that wasnt that long ago in the grand sceme of things. So can see how people mistrust it. Also it basicly sayings it a bar you cant reach over

Also always question IQ test. Because the generation now have the some of the highest IQ. Making millinials truly the greatest generation. Did the genetics change to make them that smart that quickly. Or is the current generation have greater access to information. That thus make them smarter..which means access to info really..realy helps. And the fact you can improve your IQ with practice. It make me question the genetic compodent. There might be some but it harder to measure then say your tendacy for heart disease

That not to say we should ingore the difference. we should look at the pro and cons of each group and see what works

To men Asian do well because they really push thier kids and have a strong family bond. Generations live with each other and its a strong community.
Also notice they someime push the kids into some sort of music..which maybe important to learning

But not that much in innovation coming out of that Area of the world as it is here, even thoguh they may be smart. Not many Japanease bill gate, or Steve Jobs. So maybe they need to broaden how they teach.  Then you look at happiness in countrieds..why are they happy, what are they faults

When it come to the black communitu. They came pretty far consider in the recent decades the boot only just startinhg to ease of thier throats. But some people take those obstacles as a reason to give up. Others take it as a excuse. I take it as knowing the obstacles ahead and how to deal with them

like playing an old school video game.  If you know the obstalce and patterns you can speed run through it with enough. Sure it helps to have extra live, and be on cheat mode. But if you may shit out it be better.  Like if you think cops will be racist to you. Look at cops in your area and maybe be nice and say Hi. Get to know them. I driver for uber got a camera in the car, in case shit goes sourth. All about knowing the road map

Panthergod

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Re: Bill Mahr dropping N-Bombs on live TV
« Reply #71 on: June 17, 2017, 04:10:51 PM »
This situation is mainstream white liberalism unmasking itself. Nothing more.You'd think facilitating mass slaughter of blacks globally to this second would be the indicator for most but hey...