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Author Topic: Robert Downey Jr Sherlock vs Netflix Punisher  (Read 801 times)

g-train

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Re: Robert Downey Jr Sherlock vs Netflix Punisher
« Reply #30 on: May 16, 2017, 08:12:03 PM »

Wasn't Holmes usings his "predicto-vision" to avoid getting hit by bullets and mortar fire "and" fight soldiers all at the same time when he was running through the forest?

Not only is that not in the same area, that's "not even looking" at the guys doing the firing of the bullets or mortar shells.

Holmes's "predicto-vision" is not quite precog and takes "maybe" half a second or less for it to be useful.

Even sans using it he's still good enough to fight four guys all bigger than him, one strong enough to hold him against his will up against a wall with one hand.

Though before using it he ended up on the losing end here against those four.

Off-hand; did he even bother using it against that assassin guy?

Really; that's probably one of his exploitable flaws here, like against that boxer, he didn't bother using it until the end of the fight, sure he took him apart like a cheap watch but against someone like Net-Pun that's a pretty big chance to take.


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Master

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Re: Robert Downey Jr Sherlock vs Netflix Punisher
« Reply #31 on: May 16, 2017, 09:32:13 PM »

If we're talking about solving a crime, sure.  In a fistfight, Daredevil's senses are more beneficial.  When has Holmes plucked an arrow out of the air, dodged without having to turn around, or taken down zombie ninjas by listening to their breath?

This tangent we've gone off on was about how Punisher wouldn't be able to conceal a weapon against Holmes, even though he was able to do so against Daredevil. Which is pretty moot, since this is a H2H fight, but this this the Schweppervescence that make Herochat what it is.

As for Holmes vs. Daredevil in a H2H fight, that's a bull for another rodeo, kemosabe.

Yeah, the weapons thing is a moot point, but I think it's worth noting that Punisher can still hang with a guy like Daredevil and even surprise him in a fight.

Honestly; sounds more like a bad day for Daredevil.

If frank "knew" before hand that Daredevil had superhuman senses and had it hidden "extra" good I could buy it.

But he just "happened" to have a weapon hidden so well that a guy with Superhuman senses couldn't detect it?

Matt later commented he made a mistake.
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MTL76

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Re: Robert Downey Jr Sherlock vs Netflix Punisher
« Reply #32 on: May 16, 2017, 09:45:20 PM »

In Daredevil's defense, it's not like he ever claimed to be Batman.
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Re: Robert Downey Jr Sherlock vs Netflix Punisher
« Reply #33 on: May 16, 2017, 11:37:02 PM »

Wasn't Holmes usings his "predicto-vision" to avoid getting hit by bullets and mortar fire "and" fight soldiers all at the same time when he was running through the forest?

No.  That sequence was in slow motion, but he wasn't predicting gunshots or anything.

Quote
Even sans using it he's still good enough to fight four guys all bigger than him, one strong enough to hold him against his will up against a wall with one hand.

Though before using it he ended up on the losing end here against those four.

I think Punisher stabbing his way through a narrow corridor while locked in prison was more impressive than taking down four street thugs.

Quote
Off-hand; did he even bother using it against that assassin guy?

Yes.  He knew the guy was above and had a plan to yank him down and take him out.  Nomi Rapace's character hit the guy with a couple of knives, which surprised Holmes.  The assassin got up and led him through a prolonged chase/fight, which seems to show that Holmes' plans wouldn't quite have worked out as well he expected.
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Detective AP

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Re: Robert Downey Jr Sherlock vs Netflix Punisher
« Reply #34 on: May 16, 2017, 11:39:05 PM »

If we're talking about solving a crime, sure.  In a fistfight, Daredevil's senses are more beneficial.  When has Holmes plucked an arrow out of the air, dodged without having to turn around, or taken down zombie ninjas by listening to their breath?

This tangent we've gone off on was about how Punisher wouldn't be able to conceal a weapon against Holmes, even though he was able to do so against Daredevil. Which is pretty moot, since this is a H2H fight, but this this the Schweppervescence that make Herochat what it is.

As for Holmes vs. Daredevil in a H2H fight, that's a bull for another rodeo, kemosabe.

Yeah, the weapons thing is a moot point, but I think it's worth noting that Punisher can still hang with a guy like Daredevil and even surprise him in a fight.

Honestly; sounds more like a bad day for Daredevil.

If frank "knew" before hand that Daredevil had superhuman senses and had it hidden "extra" good I could buy it.

But he just "happened" to have a weapon hidden so well that a guy with Superhuman senses couldn't detect it?

Frank didn't know Matt had enhanced senses until a few episodes later.  My point is that Frank can be unpredictable to a person who has a particular powerset that makes them very hard to surprise.
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g-train

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Re: Robert Downey Jr Sherlock vs Netflix Punisher
« Reply #35 on: May 17, 2017, 03:25:02 PM »

If we're talking about solving a crime, sure.  In a fistfight, Daredevil's senses are more beneficial.  When has Holmes plucked an arrow out of the air, dodged without having to turn around, or taken down zombie ninjas by listening to their breath?

This tangent we've gone off on was about how Punisher wouldn't be able to conceal a weapon against Holmes, even though he was able to do so against Daredevil. Which is pretty moot, since this is a H2H fight, but this this the Schweppervescence that make Herochat what it is.

As for Holmes vs. Daredevil in a H2H fight, that's a bull for another rodeo, kemosabe.

Yeah, the weapons thing is a moot point, but I think it's worth noting that Punisher can still hang with a guy like Daredevil and even surprise him in a fight.

Honestly; sounds more like a bad day for Daredevil.

If frank "knew" before hand that Daredevil had superhuman senses and had it hidden "extra" good I could buy it.

But he just "happened" to have a weapon hidden so well that a guy with Superhuman senses couldn't detect it?

Frank didn't know Matt had enhanced senses until a few episodes later.  My point is that Frank can be unpredictable to a person who has a particular powerset that makes them very hard to surprise.

Well; sounds more like a bad day for DD than a good one for Frank.

Hell; even Daredevil admitted he made a mistake.
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Detective AP

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Re: Robert Downey Jr Sherlock vs Netflix Punisher
« Reply #36 on: May 17, 2017, 05:53:03 PM »

Well; sounds more like a bad day for DD than a good one for Frank.

Hell; even Daredevil admitted he made a mistake.

Frank was still able to give Daredevil a great deal of trouble every other time they fought and surprise him in some form or another, so not really.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLjHNJ0tyiY (surprises Matt with a concealed gun)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kN59PQvvWQE&t=7s (surprises Matt by taking his weapon and later, bodyslamming him through a skyline)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKKisCInbNQ (surprises Matt by setting up a fight with the biker gang and, while it's not in this clip, escapes while Matt is fighting the last bikers a few yards away)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PfDqMQ0Lms (surprises Matt by knocking over the side of the boat)
« Last Edit: May 17, 2017, 08:05:27 PM by AP »
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Re: Robert Downey Jr Sherlock vs Netflix Punisher
« Reply #37 on: May 17, 2017, 08:10:28 PM »

Also, Frank also had his own Big Guy to fight.  Like Holmes, he doesn't win the fight, but he gives Kingpin a better fistfight than Holmes gave the Frenchman (and I would put Fisk above the French guy for what it's worth).  Keep in mind, Punisher was handcuffed in this fight and had just gone through an entire hallway full of prisoners trying to stab him to death.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbXe_232NsM
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g-train

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Re: Robert Downey Jr Sherlock vs Netflix Punisher
« Reply #38 on: May 18, 2017, 01:28:34 PM »

Also, Frank also had his own Big Guy to fight.  Like Holmes, he doesn't win the fight, but he gives Kingpin a better fistfight than Holmes gave the Frenchman (and I would put Fisk above the French guy for what it's worth).  Keep in mind, Punisher was handcuffed in this fight and had just gone through an entire hallway full of prisoners trying to stab him to death.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbXe_232NsM

Yeah but Holmes's big guy was practically Superhuman, Holmes was basically unable to affect him without using weapons like an iron pipe/bar and that old school taser device that sent him flying.

And sure Netflix-Fisk was pretty up there himself but not quite on that level.

With Holmes it almost seemed like they were verging on going cartoony with it for a second.
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g-train

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Re: Robert Downey Jr Sherlock vs Netflix Punisher
« Reply #39 on: May 18, 2017, 01:29:36 PM »

Well; sounds more like a bad day for DD than a good one for Frank.

Hell; even Daredevil admitted he made a mistake.

Frank was still able to give Daredevil a great deal of trouble every other time they fought and surprise him in some form or another, so not really.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLjHNJ0tyiY (surprises Matt with a concealed gun)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kN59PQvvWQE&t=7s (surprises Matt by taking his weapon and later, bodyslamming him through a skyline)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKKisCInbNQ (surprises Matt by setting up a fight with the biker gang and, while it's not in this clip, escapes while Matt is fighting the last bikers a few yards away)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PfDqMQ0Lms (surprises Matt by knocking over the side of the boat)


So wait; Punisher was able to "surprise" DD with an entire biker gang?

This is just starting to seem like it's just not that hard to surprise Daredevil with stuff at this point.
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Re: Robert Downey Jr Sherlock vs Netflix Punisher
« Reply #40 on: May 18, 2017, 01:42:49 PM »

Well he is a hero with super senses... who got suckered in season one by a bad guy whispering, causing him to lean in closer to hear him.

That scene always bugged me.
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Detective AP

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Re: Robert Downey Jr Sherlock vs Netflix Punisher
« Reply #41 on: May 18, 2017, 05:55:21 PM »

Yeah but Holmes's big guy was practically Superhuman, Holmes was basically unable to affect him without using weapons like an iron pipe/bar and that old school taser device that sent him flying.

And sure Netflix-Fisk was pretty up there himself but not quite on that level.

With Holmes it almost seemed like they were verging on going cartoony with it for a second.

Kingpin wasn't quite as cartoony, but he made up for it with skill and viciousness.  In that scene, Frank was fighting a guy who decapitated someone with a car door.  And, once again, he was handcuffed and has just gone through a brutal prison fight.  Holmes was completely unrestrained in his fight with the Frenchman, was fresh, and had access to weird devices around the lab.

This is just starting to seem like it's just not that hard to surprise Daredevil with stuff at this point.

By season 2, it is (as Bamf pointed out, season 1 Matt was a noob at times).  The only other people who managed to give Matt this much trouble were Hand ninjas.  The fact that not only did Frank beat Daredevil in their first encounter, he still managed to escape every other time they fought says a lot about the guy's ability to allude someone who has superhuman senses.
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Re: Robert Downey Jr Sherlock vs Netflix Punisher
« Reply #42 on: May 18, 2017, 07:24:30 PM »

Holmes had trouble with Moriarty too, boxing champ Moriarty.

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Re: Robert Downey Jr Sherlock vs Netflix Punisher
« Reply #43 on: May 18, 2017, 07:53:24 PM »

Holmes had trouble with Moriarty too, boxing champ Moriarty.

To be fair, Holmes was wounded, but it seems that, even without the wound, a boxing champ could conceivably give him some trouble.
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g-train

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Re: Robert Downey Jr Sherlock vs Netflix Punisher
« Reply #44 on: May 18, 2017, 10:34:02 PM »

Holmes had trouble with Moriarty too, boxing champ Moriarty.

To be fair, Holmes was wounded, but it seems that, even without the wound, a boxing champ could conceivably give him some trouble.

That and Moriarity has the same kind of "predicto-vision" and genius Holmes did so he was hardly just a "boxing champion".

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