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Author Topic: MCU Defenders vs MCU Captain America.  (Read 1244 times)

TURBODERP

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Re: MCU Defenders vs MCU Captain America.
« Reply #75 on: May 12, 2017, 08:51:40 PM »

The pro-Cap side seems to imply that the Defenders are going to line up and fight Cap one at a time. This isn't a gauntlet; it's a 1-vs-4. And these aren't the elevator jabroneys from WS.

Well, the pro-Defenders side is implying that Cap will stand and brawl with them instead of using his superior agility to scramble and spread them out.

It depends on the situation. In a locked room, it's tough. If Cap has room to move around, I think he does well. If he's not holding back he's going to KO Matt with one hit. JJ can't fight for shit and a solid shield strike is going to daze her. Luke's is the definition of slow and lumbering, and Cap can play keep-away while he deals with the others. Danny is the closest in skill but he's still not at Cap's level and Cap is strong enough to KO him as well.

In a wide open city-esque area, Cap can split them up and take them down 1 by 1 most likely, but in a closed room, I think the odds heavily favor the Defenders.

I think the best chance for the Defenders is to get Cap into a position where Daredevil or Cage can catch/take away the shield (Daredevil can likely catch it? Luke is strong enough to pull it off Cap if someone else is helping) and to chuck it away from the fight. Without the shield, Cap gets overwhelmed. The team is smart enough to focus on this, but the arena really makes a big difference, especially at this stage where we don't know the level of teamwork they have.


If Cap's shield is chucked he can just recall it, as seen in Avengers 2.

Quote
Tony Stark created for the Avengers many new gadgets to fight HYDRA. One of them was Captain America's new uniform, that possessed strong, electromagnetic panels on each of the glove that allows Captain America to retrieve his shield more easily.

I don't remember, but what was the range on that? I figure Luke could chuck it away pretty damn far, but that's a good point-as long as Cap has the shield, he's solidly in this fight.

Detective AP

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Re: MCU Defenders vs MCU Captain America.
« Reply #76 on: May 12, 2017, 09:19:34 PM »

The shield came back to him from the ground.  It didn't have a huge range, it seems.
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Detective AP

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Re: MCU Defenders vs MCU Captain America.
« Reply #77 on: May 12, 2017, 09:20:17 PM »

DD's armor is better suited to stop a blade but it's not going to do much to prevent a supersoldier punch to the noggin or breadbasket.

True.  Punisher was able to stun him with a punch, after all.
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JookDukem

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Re: MCU Defenders vs MCU Captain America.
« Reply #78 on: May 12, 2017, 10:53:43 PM »

1 Death Guard Marine throws a rad grenade and kills everyone, then laughs as he walks through a pile of bitch-made corpses.

Cry about it.
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Red Exodus

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Re: MCU Defenders vs MCU Captain America.
« Reply #79 on: May 13, 2017, 09:56:18 PM »

The pro-Cap side seems to imply that the Defenders are going to line up and fight Cap one at a time. This isn't a gauntlet; it's a 1-vs-4. And these aren't the elevator jabroneys from WS.

Of course not, but the problem is this :

The pro-Defenders side is implying that Cap will stand and brawl with them instead of using his superior agility to scramble and spread them out.

Pretty much. You think Cap is going to fight on their terms? That he's going to just fight like a goon and not try and use his tactical skill and quick thinking?
That he isn't going to use his superior speed and agility, as well as his competitive strength? And again, his shield?

Its as if the Pro-Defenders purposely imagine a rookie-Steve Rogers, and not the current "been through several battles against more varied and powerful
opponents than any of these guys put together," or something.
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80sBaby

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Re: MCU Defenders vs MCU Captain America.
« Reply #80 on: May 13, 2017, 11:33:18 PM »

The pro-Cap side seems to imply that the Defenders are going to line up and fight Cap one at a time. This isn't a gauntlet; it's a 1-vs-4. And these aren't the elevator jabroneys from WS.

Of course not, but the problem is this :

The pro-Defenders side is implying that Cap will stand and brawl with them instead of using his superior agility to scramble and spread them out.

Pretty much. You think Cap is going to fight on their terms? That he's going to just fight like a goon and not try and use his tactical skill and quick thinking?
That he isn't going to use his superior speed and agility, as well as his competitive strength? And again, his shield?

Its as if the Pro-Defenders purposely imagine a rookie-Steve Rogers, and not the current "been through several battles against more varied and powerful
opponents than any of these guys put together," or something.

All of this.
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GeneralPresidentSkeletor

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Re: MCU Defenders vs MCU Captain America.
« Reply #81 on: May 15, 2017, 03:49:19 PM »

I don't know what I was thinking LOL. It'd be a decent scrap, but MCU Cap is more than good enough to beat this group.

- Danny's a better MA, but Batroc probably was too and it didn't matter in the end. Danny might get an IF attack in, but Cap would probably block with the shield and plan accordingly.

- Daredevil is probably a better fighter based on pure skills, too, but he'll get his ass kicked. Too much of a stat advantage and Cap isn't some goon throwing haymakers.

- Luke? Cap might not be able to truly hurt him with his bare hands, but shield strikes would probably do enough. And in the end, Cap will find a way.

The only real question is whether or not he'd hit Jessica if they squared up. I don't think he would, initially. I think she'd catch him with one, send him flying and he'd show he's all about equality when he knocks her out.

The Defenders have a "punchers chance", but they'd have to overwhelm him immediately and have the perfect plan of attack, which I doubt will happen.
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Red Exodus

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Re: MCU Defenders vs MCU Captain America.
« Reply #82 on: May 17, 2017, 03:22:31 PM »

Skel has seen the light!
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Hulk Power

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Re: MCU Defenders vs MCU Captain America.
« Reply #83 on: May 19, 2017, 09:51:43 PM »

I have to ask: where is all of this evidence that MCU Captain America is a highly skilled fighter coming from? He's a brawler with stats that make him look highly skilled, but in reality I don't think he actually is. He's fast, strong, agile and clever...but skilled? I'm not certain you can say that.
Nonsense
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Hulk Power

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Re: MCU Defenders vs MCU Captain America.
« Reply #84 on: May 19, 2017, 10:27:08 PM »

Hmmm. We've done threads with Cap vs all of them individually and we tend to agree Steve would have an easy time one-on-one.  I thought a team fight would be interesting.
I doubt Steve has an easy time with Cage.
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Hulk Power

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Re: MCU Defenders vs MCU Captain America.
« Reply #85 on: May 19, 2017, 10:30:12 PM »

I actually think Cap is being undersold here. Only Danny might be on Steve's skill level. But none of them are as fast. He's knocking DD and IF out. He's proven he can take a beating, too. He'll feel their hits and be hurt, but he'll take it.
Pretty much. I actually think Cap takes this fight a fuck lot more then the team does.
For one thing, Cap has greater strength feats then either Jessica or Luke. Based on what Cap has done, I absolutely see Steve being able to not only
affect Luke or Jessica with his punches/kicks, but he could also take their shots as well. Keep in mind that Cap has taken hits from Loki, Ultron, Iron
Man, Winter Soldier, Spider-Man, etc. Luke isn't bringing anything to the table that Cap hasn't fought already. Same for Jessica.
The next thing is speed. Cap can run and move a fuck of a lot faster and better than either of them. Whatever agility Matt or Danny can do, Steve
has out done by leaps and bounds. The only person in the team that does something Cap can't do is Jessica, and that's her super jump. Not that it
will do her much here.
Fighting skill wise, I'm going on a limb and saying Steve is better. He has fought "better" opponents then either of the group has, including Matt or
Danny.
The thing the team doesn't realize here is they're facing a master combat tactician & fighter. Cap knows how to fight multiple opponents at once.
Both against the Chitauri, various heavily armed opponents (in fact, better armed opponents then either of the Defenders have ever dealt with),
and he's already been in a battle royale against super-powered opponents.
Daredevil doesn't make a difference here. Cap so badly outclasses him that he's not even a threat. Luke is waaaaay too slow. I don't see Luke
ever Luke is waaaaay too slow. I don't see Luke
ever tagging Steve. Jessica is faster, but she doesn't have Luke's toughness, nor does she have the skill to match Steve. Danny doesn't last
long either. Barring a very lucky Iron Fist, which I do see Steve tanking given everything else he's tanked, he doesn't have the physical stats
to beat him out in the long run.
If anything, I can see Steve running circles around them, knowing that this is not a group that trains together (unlike the Avengers), and can
map out how to best take them out well before any of them can take him down. And given how fast and hard Steve can hit, DD goes first
without question. Next is either Danny or Jessica. Luke is the last one standing, but again, he is nowhere near fast enough to tag Cap.
You think Cap is going to fight on their terms? That he's going to just fight like a goon and not try and use his tactical skill and quick thinking?
That he isn't going to use his superior speed and agility, as well as his competitive strength? And again, his shield?Its as if the Pro-Defenders purposely imagine a rookie-Steve Rogers, and not the current "been through several battles against more varied and powerful
opponents than any of these guys put together," or something.
Well, the pro-Defenders side is implying that Cap will stand and brawl with them instead of using his superior agility to scramble and spread them out. It depends on the situation. In a locked room, it's tough. If Cap has room to move around, I think he does well. If he's not holding back he's going to KO Matt with one hit. JJ can't fight for shit and a solid shield strike is going to daze her. Luke's is the definition of slow and Luke's is the definition of slow and lumbering, and Cap can play keep-away while he deals with the others. Danny is the closest in skill but he's still not at Cap's level and Cap is strong enough to KO him as well.
And based off of durability showings I believe can tank at least one IF, based off of what we've seen. Also, judging by the Defenders trailer, it isn't Danny's go to move, which may get him seriously hurt against Cap.
If Danny's all out IF connects, Cap's finished. Cap's never tanked anything that powerful head on
Cap stronger than Luke?
There is no way Cap (sans shield) is replicating Luke's feat of stopping that car just by bracing and having the car crumple around him while not being budged.
The helicopter feat is impressive but it was described as a "mother lifting car to save baby" adrenaline powered feat. It's Cap's max.
Yeah and Luke also has that dumpster crumpling feat and having the bike one handed thrown at him by Diamondback bounce off.
And that's Cap's max only for CW. Just wait for the next movie.
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