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Author Topic: Manhunt in Cleveland! This fat fuck murdered a 74 yr old for no reason.  (Read 965 times)

80sBaby

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Re: Manhunt in Cleveland! This fat fuck murdered a 74 yr old for no reason.
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2017, 05:02:43 PM »

That thats why people are against the DP.
Its a silly reason.

Ok, so why do you think that? Do you not believe innocent people are convicted of capital crimes?
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80sBaby

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Re: Manhunt in Cleveland! This fat fuck murdered a 74 yr old for no reason.
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2017, 05:48:12 PM »

I do.
But i dont hear people saying no one should go to jail.

If you (in general not you in particular) want to be against the DP, have at it.
Just have a better reason than 'innocent people might get excecuted'.
I guarantee there are more innocent people in jail you dont give a second thought to than have ever been executed.

Well, the difference between going to jail and executing someone should be obvious. With jail, while still horrible and tragic, there's at least the possibility of correcting the mistake. Death is kind of permanent so they aren't actually comparable.

And, you'd lose that bet as I think a miscarriage of justice and being wrongfully convicted is one of the worst things imaginable. Killing them would make it even worse.
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Dlbiininja

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Re: Manhunt in Cleveland! This fat fuck murdered a 74 yr old for no reason.
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2017, 12:13:00 AM »

Hm, don't forget there's many obvious issues with the death penalty and just how far back you want to go with it.  www.deathpenaltyinfo.org.
The innocence project and other orgs which have been finding and getting people off with Dna evidence.  And recently the woman who was silent for all these years even admitted that  Emmet till hadn't done anything

Here's some info on possible wrongful executions.  http://time.com/79572/more-innocent-people-on-death-row-than-estimated-study/

http://www.nytimes.com/1985/11/14/us/25-wrongfully-executed-in-us-study-finds.html

A new study on capital punishment in the United States asserts that in this century 343 people were wrongly convicted of offenses punishable by death and that 25 were actually executed.

The study was done in part to rebut assertions that the problem of wrongful execution is at best theoretical, the authors said. The American Civil Liberties Union, which opposes the death penalty, is circulating the report.

''Regardless of our position on capital punishment,'' the authors wrote, ''a criminal justice system culminating in the death penalty is fallible, and the gravest errors in its administration are inevitable.''

« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 12:23:11 AM by Dlbiininja »
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Dlbiininja

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Re: Manhunt in Cleveland! This fat fuck murdered a 74 yr old for no reason.
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2017, 03:06:12 AM »

^^^your post is very interesting to me. It speaks to my point about considering
Quote
The only reason I'm against the death penalty is the chance of getting it wrong and executing someone innocent.
A silly reason.
The above is a very simplistic view of a topic thats anything but.
I'm sure it sounds stupid to you if i say:
'Innocent people die every day in traffic accidents, so i'm against driving/riding in cars.'
'Innocent people die every day from botched surgeries, misdiagnoses, and mistakes in prescriptions, so i'm against the medical profession.'
Well thats how 'The only reason I'm against the death penalty is the chance of getting it wrong and executing someone innocent.' sounds to me.
-shrug-
If you're gonna take a position, do it for a better reason.

Check it out man.  I'll point you into the direction of other things as well.  Like the fact that there's a racial disparity when it comes to sentencing and how drugs use is perceived in case comparisons in comparisons to whites vs minorities. 
Lisa Ling did a doc on the issue between black and white drug users For her show This is Life.    I'm like shit you consider the failure of the drug war and who it's affected more as well.  But, they avoided or ignored the drug issues in the suburbs or the rural areas or they just didn't do shit about it. But, then when you have the financial resources to fight, pay off, or whatever to keep from going to jail.  And even now with more whites being affected by addiction you see spots popping up that allows for clean needles for drug use.  And they even allow for Dr. Oversight to prevent overdoses.  Like the ones they have here in Seattle.  Now, they want to be more compassionate to those users. 

Ah, found it,"The black and white of heroin" is the name of the ep.

https://youtu.be/T-OvId3XQ5g
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Strange

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Re: Manhunt in Cleveland! This fat fuck murdered a 74 yr old for no reason.
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2017, 04:47:51 AM »

^^^your post is very interesting to me. It speaks to my point about considering
Quote
The only reason I'm against the death penalty is the chance of getting it wrong and executing someone innocent.
A silly reason.
The above is a very simplistic view of a topic thats anything but.
I'm sure it sounds stupid to you if i say:
'Innocent people die every day in traffic accidents, so i'm against driving/riding in cars.'
'Innocent people die every day from botched surgeries, misdiagnoses, and mistakes in prescriptions, so i'm against the medical profession.'
Well thats how 'The only reason I'm against the death penalty is the chance of getting it wrong and executing someone innocent.' sounds to me.
-shrug-
If you're gonna take a position, do it for a better reason.

Those really are not comparable arguments though.... You provide two where there is a massive leap in logic while the original argument is a fairly solid with a natural logical flow. The reason is incredibly good too. I mean, how much of a better reason could there be?

Snake-eyes

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Re: Manhunt in Cleveland! This fat fuck murdered a 74 yr old for no reason.
« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2017, 05:09:22 AM »

I'm against the Death Penalty because it's too easy on the criminals, I think they should get life w/o parole and that hard labor should be brought back.
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MTL76

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Re: Manhunt in Cleveland! This fat fuck murdered a 74 yr old for no reason.
« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2017, 06:07:46 AM »

^^^your post is very interesting to me. It speaks to my point about considering
Quote
The only reason I'm against the death penalty is the chance of getting it wrong and executing someone innocent.
A silly reason.
The above is a very simplistic view of a topic thats anything but.
I'm sure it sounds stupid to you if i say:
'Innocent people die every day in traffic accidents, so i'm against driving/riding in cars.'
'Innocent people die every day from botched surgeries, misdiagnoses, and mistakes in prescriptions, so i'm against the medical profession.'
Well thats how 'The only reason I'm against the death penalty is the chance of getting it wrong and executing someone innocent.' sounds to me.
-shrug-
If you're gonna take a position, do it for a better reason.

Traffic accidents are accidents, not really comparable to the willful killing of another person.

Botched and unnecessary surgeries are actually excellent reasons to avoid doctors!  ;D

There have just been too many falsely accused people on death row who were later released for me to be comfortable with it in America as of now. Especially since there's an alternative - life in jail w/o parole. In the future, if we could someone make it foolproof, it would be a different story.
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80sBaby

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Re: Manhunt in Cleveland! This fat fuck murdered a 74 yr old for no reason.
« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2017, 08:29:19 AM »

Yes but their reasons for finding your examples "stupid" are logical, while yours isn't. I mean, everyone is entitled to an opinion but yours doesn't track with logic.

It's like saying "In my opinion, the sun is made of cheese because it's yellow."
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Strange

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Re: Manhunt in Cleveland! This fat fuck murdered a 74 yr old for no reason.
« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2017, 08:47:45 AM »

I'm against the Death Penalty because it's too easy on the criminals, I think they should get life w/o parole and that hard labor should be brought back.
I could live with that.

@strange & MTL76
I told you you'd find those statements stupid.
I find the statement i've quoted several times already just as stupid...
...because none of these things is that simple.

It is that simple though... It is an actual very solid reason to be against it. I'm not even saying I agree with that argument either but your logic behind your stance makes no sense. It is like you are calling it "silly" as a way to deflect from you not really having a counterargument on it despite being against it.

There is a jump in logic with the two examples you presented. So, you can find those to be ridiculous. It isn't really an opinion based matter here. You moved it more to fact when you did that. 

JookDukem

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Re: Manhunt in Cleveland! This fat fuck murdered a 74 yr old for no reason.
« Reply #24 on: April 21, 2017, 09:37:39 AM »

I do.
But i dont hear people saying no one should go to jail.

If you (in general not you in particular) want to be against the DP, have at it.
Just have a better reason than 'innocent people might get excecuted'.
I guarantee there are more innocent people in jail you dont give a second thought to than have ever been executed.

Well, the difference between going to jail and executing someone should be obvious. With jail, while still horrible and tragic, there's at least the possibility of correcting the mistake. Death is kind of permanent so they aren't actually comparable.

And, you'd lose that bet as I think a miscarriage of justice and being wrongfully convicted is one of the worst things imaginable. Killing them would make it even worse.

You might want to use a better word than "correcting" the mistake of taking years off of a persons life for a crime they didn't committ.

You can't correct that or make it right. No amount of money, which is often the case, fixes the issue. We can try to make up for it but there's nothing that can erase the damage or take away the abject horror that person is subjected to by sending an innocent person to prison.
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80sBaby

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Re: Manhunt in Cleveland! This fat fuck murdered a 74 yr old for no reason.
« Reply #25 on: April 21, 2017, 09:43:49 AM »

Agreed.

Semantics aside, you do get my point as to the difference between the two though, right?
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JookDukem

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Re: Manhunt in Cleveland! This fat fuck murdered a 74 yr old for no reason.
« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2017, 11:08:07 AM »

Yeah most definitely. I agree with it even.
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Dlbiininja

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Re: Manhunt in Cleveland! This fat fuck murdered a 74 yr old for no reason.
« Reply #27 on: April 21, 2017, 02:56:11 PM »

Cool.

Me, i'd respect (though still not agree with) an actual well thought out, or moral, or religious objection to the DP. 'A mistake might be made' doesnt cut it for me.
Thanks to everyone though, this was a lot more civil than the last time the subject came up here.

If you have netflix check out 13th. 
You can listen to her interview on NPR here.
http://www.npr.org/2016/12/17/505996792/documentary-13th-argues-mass-incarceration-is-an-extension-of-slavery

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g-train

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Re: Manhunt in Cleveland! This fat fuck murdered a 74 yr old for no reason.
« Reply #28 on: April 22, 2017, 07:00:29 PM »

That seems really interesting, thanks man.

Well supposedly PoC are over-represented for death sentences and such.

So you could argue one reason we shouldn't do it is because racism getting people executed who wouldn't otherwise be if they were white.

Or ever see that study where when told about that most people rethought their stance, whether white or PoC on being pro-execution except for.....three guesses.

Pro-Execution types who were white in the south, they actually supported it "more" after learning that PoC got executed at higher unjustified rates.
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