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movie Thor vs comicbook Captain America

80sBaby

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Re: movie Thor vs comicbook Captain America
« Reply #345 on: April 29, 2017, 12:30:56 AM »
Thank you!!

Ok, let's say Thor isn't Class 50, whatever. What level is he? He's, at least, a high-end Midtier with Top Tier EP/AoE attacks. Are we saying Cap is the favorite against this type? If so then Steve is no longer a street-leveler.
Thor, the whole package considered, is about mid tier.

He's not mid tier strength + top tier EP

Jesus fuck you guys

Ok. So you think comics Cap wins a majority against all midtier characters then?

Re: movie Thor vs comicbook Captain America
« Reply #346 on: April 29, 2017, 12:35:15 AM »
We've given reasons why Cap won't win:

1 - Thor is substantially stronger.  Regardless of what class you put him in, he has proven to be stronger than Cap by a wide margin.

2 - Thor is also substantially more durable.

3 - Thor has ranged weapons including lightning and hammer throws.

4 - Thor can fly.

5 - Thor can do area attacks such as whipping up tornadoes, zapping the ground, hammer strikes, or just calling down a lot of lightning from the sky.

6 - Thor is also a very skilled and agile fighter.  Not on Cap's level, for sure, but if a mortal Thor can fight his way through a SHIELD base, he can at least hang enough to land a clean blow or two.
Okay now this we can get into. I think the crux of what Gree is getting at is that points 1 and 2 (I added numbers to your post to make this more efficient) aren't really coming in at great enough numbers to stop Cap from pulling comic BS to stop Thor at least sometimes, as Cap's shield strikes can definitely harm higher class individuals and he can certainly block attacks from them, not to mention the HUGE difference between the way street level skill/speed are portrayed in movies vs. how it's portrayed in comics and 3-5 aren't necessarily the standard MO especially against weaker opponents (I could try to count his overall number of fight scenes and compare them to the number of times he uses those if you'd like).

I would add that for me personally, I don't care who's saying it, movie Thor is not getting a clean hit on comic Cap. Like ever. Comic book streets make a career out of not getting hit by stronger opponents and that's not even factoring in Cap having one of the greatest defensive weapons in the entire medium. Bluntly, movie Cap seems faster than movie Thor and his combat speed is nothing compared to the way comic street levelers like Cap, Daredevil and Spider-Man are often portrayed with some of their BS. I have zero issue with the likelihood that movie Thor takes a clear majority but come on.

Mightily Oats

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Re: movie Thor vs comicbook Captain America
« Reply #347 on: April 29, 2017, 01:30:35 AM »
Thank you!!

Ok, let's say Thor isn't Class 50, whatever. What level is he? He's, at least, a high-end Midtier with Top Tier EP/AoE attacks. Are we saying Cap is the favorite against this type? If so then Steve is no longer a street-leveler.
Thor, the whole package considered, is about mid tier.

He's not mid tier strength + top tier EP

Jesus fuck you guys

Ok. So you think comics Cap wins a majority against all midtier characters then?
In a physical dust up and he has his shield? He's got good odds

And I'm not talking about "all mid tier characters" because that's as fucking stupid as movie Thor being class 50 in strength and having COMIC BOOK top tier EP

XerxesTWD

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Re: movie Thor vs comicbook Captain America
« Reply #348 on: April 29, 2017, 01:33:11 AM »
Nobody with a brain is saying that. Just Gree, furious about the Shadowcat vs Midnighter verdict!

This is worse, which doesn't seem like it should be possible.
It's a separate thread, but her specific powerset and skills are tailored to fuck with his advantages.

JookDukem

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Re: movie Thor vs comicbook Captain America
« Reply #349 on: April 29, 2017, 01:35:49 AM »
I feel it, I read the thread. Gree just didn't meltdown as hard in that thread as he has in this one.

Gree

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Re: movie Thor vs comicbook Captain America
« Reply #350 on: April 29, 2017, 02:14:32 AM »
We've given reasons why Cap won't win:

1 - Thor is substantially stronger.  Regardless of what class you put him in, he has proven to be stronger than Cap by a wide margin.

2 - Thor is also substantially more durable.

3 - Thor has ranged weapons including lightning and hammer throws.

4 - Thor can fly.

5 - Thor can do area attacks such as whipping up tornadoes, zapping the ground, hammer strikes, or just calling down a lot of lightning from the sky.

6 - Thor is also a very skilled and agile fighter.  Not on Cap's level, for sure, but if a mortal Thor can fight his way through a SHIELD base, he can at least hang enough to land a clean blow or two.
Okay now this we can get into. I think the crux of what Gree is getting at is that points 1 and 2 (I added numbers to your post to make this more efficient) aren't really coming in at great enough numbers to stop Cap from pulling comic BS to stop Thor at least sometimes, as Cap's shield strikes can definitely harm higher class individuals and he can certainly block attacks from them, not to mention the HUGE difference between the way street level skill/speed are portrayed in movies vs. how it's portrayed in comics and 3-5 aren't necessarily the standard MO especially against weaker opponents (I could try to count his overall number of fight scenes and compare them to the number of times he uses those if you'd like).

I would add that for me personally, I don't care who's saying it, movie Thor is not getting a clean hit on comic Cap. Like ever. Comic book streets make a career out of not getting hit by stronger opponents and that's not even factoring in Cap having one of the greatest defensive weapons in the entire medium. Bluntly, movie Cap seems faster than movie Thor and his combat speed is nothing compared to the way comic street levelers like Cap, Daredevil and Spider-Man are often portrayed with some of their BS. I have zero issue with the likelihood that movie Thor takes a clear majority but come on.

Agreed

Gree

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Re: movie Thor vs comicbook Captain America
« Reply #351 on: April 29, 2017, 02:14:56 AM »
Thank you!!

Ok, let's say Thor isn't Class 50, whatever. What level is he? He's, at least, a high-end Midtier with Top Tier EP/AoE attacks. Are we saying Cap is the favorite against this type? If so then Steve is no longer a street-leveler.
Thor, the whole package considered, is about mid tier.

He's not mid tier strength + top tier EP

Jesus fuck you guys

Ok. So you think comics Cap wins a majority against all midtier characters then?
In a physical dust up and he has his shield? He's got good odds

And I'm not talking about "all mid tier characters" because that's as fucking stupid as movie Thor being class 50 in strength and having COMIC BOOK top tier EP

Yep, agreed here as well

Gree

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Re: movie Thor vs comicbook Captain America
« Reply #352 on: April 29, 2017, 02:17:38 AM »
Flying forward would nullify his momentum

Le sigh...He only flew forward a few feet. How much do you think that nullified the impact? Give a percentage (guestimate.)

Hard to say, im not pulling out vectors and physics. But think about it, he burst out of the shell in a complete opposite direction, nullifying a fair share of the impact.

Even comic Cap, a street leveler has fallen out of planes and survived. Batman has fallen from a sky scraper and caught himself with one arm, and he's another street leveler, for example.

Thor is not where you guys think he is

Gree

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Re: movie Thor vs comicbook Captain America
« Reply #353 on: April 29, 2017, 02:18:52 AM »
Thank you!!

Ok, let's say Thor isn't Class 50, whatever. What level is he? He's, at least, a high-end Midtier with Top Tier EP/AoE attacks. Are we saying Cap is the favorite against this type? If so then Steve is no longer a street-leveler.
Thor, the whole package considered, is about mid tier.

He's not mid tier strength + top tier EP

Jesus fuck you guys

Ok. So you think comics Cap wins a majority against all midtier characters then?

Mistier characters he is more agile, faster, more experienced, significantly more skilled andncan damage with punches and hits?

Sure

Toilet Bunny

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Re: movie Thor vs comicbook Captain America
« Reply #354 on: April 29, 2017, 02:32:12 AM »
More experienced?  Even movie Thor is thousands of years old.

Mightily Oats

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Re: movie Thor vs comicbook Captain America
« Reply #355 on: April 29, 2017, 07:28:39 AM »
Oats, where you at?  This is your wheelhouse.
I completely by accident clicked on Page 6, and saw this post purely by coincidence.

WHAT WAS THIS ABOUT

Master

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Re: movie Thor vs comicbook Captain America
« Reply #356 on: April 29, 2017, 08:23:30 AM »
Nobody with a brain is saying that. Just Gree, furious about the Shadowcat vs Midnighter verdict!

I chuckled.
9 outta 10 Masters are Master.

Gree

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Re: movie Thor vs comicbook Captain America
« Reply #357 on: April 29, 2017, 09:57:39 AM »
More experienced?  Even movie Thor is thousands of years old.

Oh Jesus Christ man

Gree

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Re: movie Thor vs comicbook Captain America
« Reply #358 on: April 29, 2017, 09:58:26 AM »
Oats, where you at?  This is your wheelhouse.
I completely by accident clicked on Page 6, and saw this post purely by coincidence.

WHAT WAS THIS ABOUT

Grasping the fundamental difference in power levels between fictional universes particularly comics is your thing

Gree

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Re: movie Thor vs comicbook Captain America
« Reply #359 on: April 29, 2017, 10:04:18 AM »
I've been following this thread for a few days now, and I really agree with Skeletor. The anti-Thor/Pro-Cap side's entire argument seems to be "Well Thor isn't Superman... so he can't beat Cap".

Is that really the criteria here?

I actually think the points both sides are making are fine, and this has been an enjoyable read, but the pro-Cap side doesn't seem to have any argument that Cap can win. They just have that... he might not lose? Is that the same thing? Because Thor isn't top-tier?

Maybe the goalposts got shifted on the entire argument, but I'd like to see conversation come around to how Cap can WIN.

I think you might've read a different thread.

The pro-Cap side is arguing fundamentally that Thor is not as powerful as the pro-Thor side believes. He's a solid mid tier in my opinion overall he's NOT comic Top tier, and it can not be proven that he is. They are also saying that Cap has experience in battling and having victories against vastly more powerful foes. He's more skilled by a long shot, a better fighter, has the best defensive weapon in comics, and is strong enough to hurt him pretty badly. He makes a living out of hurting people outside of his weight class, and this Thor isn't so far above him as being stated. He's nowhere near as powerful as comic Wonder Woman or Extremist Iron Man, or Thing.
Also that comics are a vastly more powerful medium than movie MCU

The pro Thor side is arguing that Cap can't win because movie Thor is comic top tier and Cap is street level and he can't beat someone Outside his "level" for a majority.