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The sadness of the Ultimate line

shadowknight

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The sadness of the Ultimate line
« on: October 08, 2014, 08:22:54 PM »
When Marvel created the Ultimate Universe about 10 yrs ago it was fresh and original take on Marvel heroes where death matters with a more realistic morality. While I never had a problem with making death matter, since outside of Uncle Ben and the Waynes every major comic book character has come back to life. That doesn't change the fact that the fat lady started singing on the Ultimate line with the death of Peter Parker. She's nearing her final note with the death of Ultimate Cap and the abomination  that calls itself  the Ultimates & Ultimate FF.  Anyway that's my rant anyone agree or disagree?

MTL76

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Re: The sadness of the Ultimate line
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2014, 08:24:28 PM »
Haven't read an Ultimate book in years. I never really got into them outside of the first two Ultimates runs.


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Mightily Oats

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Re: The sadness of the Ultimate line
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2014, 08:43:34 PM »
I read X-Men until Kirkman took over and did absolutely nothing with it, FF until Carey showed up (but not because of him, just a weird coincidence) and like most people only really read the first 2 series of the Ultimates

Dutchman

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Re: The sadness of the Ultimate line
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2014, 08:55:59 PM »
Actually, everything post Ultimatum has been great.
Honestly.

Post Ultimatum books don't require much continuity, the only thing you need to know is

shit happened
this is where the book is NOW:


Mind you they've done another Ultimatum with Galactus' recent visit to the planet, and did another soft reboot.
Everybody's got new lines, and new stories.

Except Miles.
WHICH IS GOOD BECAUSE MILES IS GOOD

Dutchman

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Re: The sadness of the Ultimate line
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2014, 08:58:02 PM »
Also, the death of Peter Parker is an excellent example why the Ultimate universe can still work. Characters can DIE.

As opposed to Batman-oh-dear-I-seem-to-be-stuck-in-time-oh-no-wait-I'm-back-again.

All of Utopia / Thian, all of Ultimate Spider-Man, and everything with President Captain America has been great.

If you disagree you're a shadowknight.

MTL76

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Re: The sadness of the Ultimate line
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2014, 09:01:40 PM »
I really don't care about the fact that major characters don't die or stay dead in mainstream comics. It's just part of the genre. Superhero comics are escapist fantasy entertainment. You either accept it or you don't. To me it's part of the fun. So the "permanent death" of the Ultimates universe doesn't hold much appeal to me.


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Dutchman

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Re: The sadness of the Ultimate line
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2014, 09:04:30 PM »
I really don't care about the fact that major characters don't die or stay dead in mainstream comics. It's just part of the genre. Superhero comics are escapist fantasy entertainment. You either accept it or you don't. To me it's part of the fun. So the "permanent death" of the Ultimates universe doesn't hold much appeal to me.
Well then, read the stories for their quality sake.

Again. Utopia versus Thian, President Cap, all of Miles.
DO IT DO IT NOW

Ramz

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Re: The sadness of the Ultimate line
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2014, 09:11:54 PM »
Cap is president? wot.

Dutchman

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Re: The sadness of the Ultimate line
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2014, 09:40:54 PM »
Yeah this religious nut became the new Master Mold  and then Hydra attacked with backup from Asgard, and Texas segregated from the rest of the USA (STAY SAFE, HALLOWEENJACK) and the president got killed and impromptu votes made Cap the president and he accepted and started punching politicians in the face.

rpgmaker3

Re: The sadness of the Ultimate line
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2014, 09:42:01 PM »
i agree with the rant.

shadowknight

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Re: The sadness of the Ultimate line
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2014, 10:31:49 PM »
Yeah this religious nut became the new Master Mold  and then Hydra attacked with backup from Asgard, and Texas segregated from the rest of the USA (STAY SAFE, HALLOWEENJACK) and the president got killed and impromptu votes made Cap the president and he accepted and started punching politicians in the face.
There was nothing wrong with Pres Cap, in fact I could easily see a mini or maxy series staring Ultimate Cap struggles as he tries to do what is Presidential with what a Super hero would do. But that wasn't done his presidency barely lasted 4 mths before that storyline was thrown in waste paper basket and later Cap was killed off.

HalloweenJack

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Re: The sadness of the Ultimate line
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2014, 05:38:52 PM »
Yeah this religious nut became the new Master Mold  and then Hydra attacked with backup from Asgard, and Texas segregated from the rest of the USA (STAY SAFE, HALLOWEENJACK) and the president got killed and impromptu votes made Cap the president and he accepted and started punching politicians in the face.

I will old friend. i will.

Necro

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Re: The sadness of the Ultimate line
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2014, 05:55:49 PM »
Loeb.
After he did that mess, I just couldn't care anymore.

Dutchman

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Re: The sadness of the Ultimate line
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2014, 06:59:51 PM »
Loeb.
After he did that mess, I just couldn't care anymore.

YOU'RE A FOOL, NECRO COMMANDER

Astro

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Re: The sadness of the Ultimate line
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2014, 01:51:02 AM »
At this point even Marvel knows it. They're not even attempting to put interesting or successful talent on the books.

To be honest, I've always thought this line was kind of a piece of shit. Or, rather, only very rarely did I think it was doing anything very interesting or novel. I enjoyed Ellis' Fantastic Four, and then Hickman's Ultimates and that's pretty much it. Everything else I tried was just retarded gore porn or shock value incest babies 'n shit. Blech.

It ran into the problem that all of these 'everything goes!' spin off universe run into  -- they went to big and too stupid, they lost focus on the thing that drew people to the world in the first place (the characters) focusing too much on the notion of 'blowing up the status quo' until it was a generic post-apocalyptic landscape peopled with superheroes.

Current Ultimates is HORRIFICALLY bad and Fialkov's stuff was phoned in in the extreme.

Same thing happened to Wildstorm, same thing happened to New Universe and Valiant (ultraverse was always shit).

The real truth of it is that lines like this can't really exist anymore. Interesting, new talent doesn't want to create IP for anyone but themselves anymore, but so much of a line like this is predicated on doing new stuff, on experimenting. As the main lines become more open to formal experimentation and practical concerns make experimenting with new characters, ideas, or even set pieces prohibitive in a company owned environment.

Basically, let it die as an imprint and let Bendis keep doing Ultimate Spider Man because people still seem to enjoy that.