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trump revokes trangeders protections

therock

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trump revokes trangeders protections
« on: February 23, 2017, 09:16:06 PM »
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-lgbt-idUSKBN161243

remember would people would worry that it was the dems focusing on indenity politics. Nice to see where the priority lies.

g-train

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Re: trump revokes trangeders protections
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2017, 10:48:55 PM »
Nice to know I don't have to worry about dudes in wigs going into the bathroom while my daughters in there anymore.

therock

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Re: trump revokes trangeders protections
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2017, 11:44:03 PM »
Nice to know I don't have to worry about dudes in wigs going into the bathroom while my daughters in there anymore.

Was that an issue before. Let be honest a lot of people who against this wont be happy with dudes with wigs going into bathroom with their sons. So where is a dude with a wig to go if they want to take a shit.

MTL76

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Re: trump revokes trangeders protections
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2017, 12:09:48 AM »
It's amazing that a group that is 0.3% of the population in America gets the country so fired up, in every group along the political spectrum.

It's as if trans people never used a public bathroom before Obama's presidency. Obviously, they did. They just did it on the sly. If they looked like a woman, they used the woman's bathroom. If they looked like a man, ditto. But, to paraphrase Don Draper, they were discrete. And the world turned on.

Obama did a disservice to them by making this an issue and ramming it down the collective throat of America. This led to some states writing silly reactionary laws that they never would have done in the first place. Now it's an issue for the courts to decide, which it should have been originally anyway.




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therock

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Re: trump revokes trangeders protections
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2017, 12:37:37 AM »
It's amazing that a group that is 0.3% of the population in America gets the country so fired up, in every group along the political spectrum.

It's as if trans people never used a public bathroom before Obama's presidency. Obviously, they did. They just did it on the sly. If they looked like a woman, they used the woman's bathroom. If they looked like a man, ditto. But, to paraphrase Don Draper, they were discrete. And the world turned on.

Obama did a disservice to them by making this an issue and ramming it down the collective throat of America. This led to some states writing silly reactionary laws that they never would have done in the first place. Now it's an issue for the courts to decide, which it should have been originally anyway.

Well lets look at the history of what happen.  The right was the ones that made laws against it.  That happen FIRST. Remember whole bunches of companies boycouted it. Because it could mean Jail time.  Then they tallk people could get money for snitching out people who use the bathroom that not thier gender. It only then the president decided to make laws to protect them

Trump before was right..leave things as is. But now he doing something different.

therock

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Re: trump revokes trangeders protections
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2017, 12:57:26 AM »
actully that similar to a lot of thing when people compalin about the left focusing on social issues


The right passed perosnahood ammenemnt, try to defund plant parenthood, make you shove a camera up your cooch in aborting clincs, and abitray rules to abortion clincis

Then when the left say WTF..their like why you focusing so much on fringe SJW issues.

Not BAMF

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Re: trump revokes trangeders protections
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2017, 10:13:28 AM »
Nice to know I don't have to worry about dudes in wigs going into the bathroom while my daughters in there anymore.

Wait, this is the Debate forum. I can't say what I really think about this comment.

Are criminals notorious for following the law? Isn't this often the argument AGAINST gun control by the same political party? "Why bother with laws? Criminals will do what they want anyway". This law doesn't help or hurt perverts from donning a disguise and doing pervy things. It changes literally NOTHING in regards to that. That's what a DISGUISE is.

g-train

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Re: trump revokes trangeders protections
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2017, 03:57:47 PM »
Nice to know I don't have to worry about dudes in wigs going into the bathroom while my daughters in there anymore.

Was that an issue before. Let be honest a lot of people who against this wont be happy with dudes with wigs going into bathroom with their sons. So where is a dude with a wig to go if they want to take a shit.

Maybe; it's not like I have a daughter so I wouldn't really no one way or the other.

Hulkster

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Re: trump revokes trangeders protections
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2017, 02:01:04 PM »
Nice to know I don't have to worry about dudes in wigs going into the bathroom while my daughters in there anymore.

Wait, this is the Debate forum. I can't say what I really think about this comment.

Are criminals notorious for following the law? Isn't this often the argument AGAINST gun control by the same political party? "Why bother with laws? Criminals will do what they want anyway". This law doesn't help or hurt perverts from donning a disguise and doing pervy things. It changes literally NOTHING in regards to that. That's what a DISGUISE is.

To be fair, he doesn't say "disguise", whether that is what he meant or not.  A man who makes the effort to successfully disguise himself as a woman is not doing so strictly to gain access to woman's restroom and is probably legit.  On the other hand, a wig could simply be a means of validating a man's assertion that he identifies as a woman, even if it is still apparent that he is a man.  The comparison to a criminal carrying a gun only works with regard to the convincing disguises.  Successfully hiding your gender would be the equivalent of successfully hiding a gun.     

Not BAMF

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Re: trump revokes trangeders protections
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2017, 02:16:53 PM »
I'm not sure what you're saying. Here are all the situations I can think of in, like, a minute:

1) An actual transgender person who was born male and has transitioned to female wants to use the men's room. This law stops them. So now we someone who is essentially biologically female being forced to use a male restroom. Though this person will still be using the women's room because you can't fucking tell. They go to the bathroom and leave to go about their day, and no one is bothered.

2) A transsexual person who is male but considers himself female wants to use the women's restroom. He is dressed as a woman because that's how he associates, but has had no surgeries. This law stops them. Though this person may be able to use the women's room based on how well they pass as a woman. They go to the bathroom and leave to continue their day, and no one is bothered.

3) A criminal dresses as a women to use the women's room to assault/peep/commit crime. He shouldn't ever be allowed to, but again... he may be able to if he passes well. He goes into the bathroom and COMMITS A CRIME. This is already illegal and he should be prosecuted! This law about who can use what restroom should stop him, but it doesn't come into play because he roll a 20 stealth anyway and just walked in to commit his crime. We should stop these people, but this law doesn't do a damn thing about them; they are already going to do it, regardless.

4) A guy puts on a wig to use the women's restroom. He doesn't consider himself trans in any way. He also doesn't commit a crime (for whatever reason... it's your example, I guess). He just pees in a women's toilet and leaves to go about his day. This law should stop him! But if it didn't... who was hurt? All the guy did was pee. He didn't peep or assault anyone or take photos or anything. He just has a weird toilet preference, I suppose.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 02:22:37 PM by Not BAMF »

Not BAMF

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Re: trump revokes trangeders protections
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2017, 02:25:33 PM »
As far as what I meant about guns... how often do you hear "Gun laws won't work because criminals don't respect the law. If they want to shoot someone, they'll get a gun whether they're legal or not! So why stop good guy gun owners from being able to buy one?"

I mean... you can make the EXACT SAME ARGUMENT in this case. "Bathroom laws won't work because criminals don't respect the law. If they want to assault someone, they'll walk into the women's room whether it's legal or not! So why stop good guy trans citizens from being able to use one?"

But generally the people that believe the first statement direly oppose the second because SUDDENLY criminals will stop to consider the law, I suppose.

Hulkster

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Re: trump revokes trangeders protections
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2017, 03:13:13 PM »
As far as what I meant about guns... how often do you hear "Gun laws won't work because criminals don't respect the law. If they want to shoot someone, they'll get a gun whether they're legal or not! So why stop good guy gun owners from being able to buy one?"

I mean... you can make the EXACT SAME ARGUMENT in this case. "Bathroom laws won't work because criminals don't respect the law. If they want to assault someone, they'll walk into the women's room whether it's legal or not! So why stop good guy trans citizens from being able to use one?"

But generally the people that believe the first statement direly oppose the second because SUDDENLY criminals will stop to consider the law, I suppose.

But that comparison doesn't work.  The argument against gun laws is based on the idea that criminals will not follow the law and have guns while law abiding citizens will follow the law and not have guns.  Thus you will have a bunch of law abiding citizens who are at the mercy of criminals in a violent confrontation due to being unarmed.  This idea has no application as it relates to restroom laws.

Not BAMF

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Re: trump revokes trangeders protections
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2017, 03:24:50 PM »
It's a loose comparison based on the implication being criminals will/won't follow some laws while law-abiding citizens are negatively affected by them (without turning this into a gun debate outta nowhere... the whole extrapolation you're going for leads to a debate as whether owning a gun actually helps you ward off crime or not).


Hulkster

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Re: trump revokes trangeders protections
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2017, 03:35:36 PM »
I'm not sure what you're saying. Here are all the situations I can think of in, like, a minute:

1) An actual transgender person who was born male and has transitioned to female wants to use the men's room. This law stops them. So now we someone who is essentially biologically female being forced to use a male restroom. Though this person will still be using the women's room because you can't fucking tell. They go to the bathroom and leave to go about their day, and no one is bothered.

2) A transsexual person who is male but considers himself female wants to use the women's restroom. He is dressed as a woman because that's how he associates, but has had no surgeries. This law stops them. Though this person may be able to use the women's room based on how well they pass as a woman. They go to the bathroom and leave to continue their day, and no one is bothered.

3) A criminal dresses as a women to use the women's room to assault/peep/commit crime. He shouldn't ever be allowed to, but again... he may be able to if he passes well. He goes into the bathroom and COMMITS A CRIME. This is already illegal and he should be prosecuted! This law about who can use what restroom should stop him, but it doesn't come into play because he roll a 20 stealth anyway and just walked in to commit his crime. We should stop these people, but this law doesn't do a damn thing about them; they are already going to do it, regardless.

4) A guy puts on a wig to use the women's restroom. He doesn't consider himself trans in any way. He also doesn't commit a crime (for whatever reason... it's your example, I guess). He just pees in a women's toilet and leaves to go about his day. This law should stop him! But if it didn't... who was hurt? All the guy did was pee. He didn't peep or assault anyone or take photos or anything. He just has a weird toilet preference, I suppose.

Well, there is another scenario where you have guy #4 with  the intentions of guy #3.  Also, the federal guideline standard for being transgendered is based simply on what a person "says and does".  Say you're a woman, act somewhat womanish, and you're in the door.  That includes locker rooms and showers.  Based on federal guidelines, if you identify as a woman, you can legally hop right into an open shower with the women and girls, dick swinging.

g-train

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Re: trump revokes trangeders protections
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2017, 08:27:30 PM »
I'm not sure what you're saying. Here are all the situations I can think of in, like, a minute:

1) An actual transgender person who was born male and has transitioned to female wants to use the men's room. This law stops them. So now we someone who is essentially biologically female being forced to use a male restroom. Though this person will still be using the women's room because you can't fucking tell. They go to the bathroom and leave to go about their day, and no one is bothered.

2) A transsexual person who is male but considers himself female wants to use the women's restroom. He is dressed as a woman because that's how he associates, but has had no surgeries. This law stops them. Though this person may be able to use the women's room based on how well they pass as a woman. They go to the bathroom and leave to continue their day, and no one is bothered.

3) A criminal dresses as a women to use the women's room to assault/peep/commit crime. He shouldn't ever be allowed to, but again... he may be able to if he passes well. He goes into the bathroom and COMMITS A CRIME. This is already illegal and he should be prosecuted! This law about who can use what restroom should stop him, but it doesn't come into play because he roll a 20 stealth anyway and just walked in to commit his crime. We should stop these people, but this law doesn't do a damn thing about them; they are already going to do it, regardless.

4) A guy puts on a wig to use the women's restroom. He doesn't consider himself trans in any way. He also doesn't commit a crime (for whatever reason... it's your example, I guess). He just pees in a women's toilet and leaves to go about his day. This law should stop him! But if it didn't... who was hurt? All the guy did was pee. He didn't peep or assault anyone or take photos or anything. He just has a weird toilet preference, I suppose.

Well, there is another scenario where you have guy #4 with  the intentions of guy #3.  Also, the federal guideline standard for being transgendered is based simply on what a person "says and does".  Say you're a woman, act somewhat womanish, and you're in the door.  That includes locker rooms and showers.  Based on federal guidelines, if you identify as a woman, you can legally hop right into an open shower with the women and girls, dick swinging.

That and cutting off your dick, taking some pills doesn't make you essentially "biologically female".

Like saying a guy who got into an accident, loses his genitals or gets it mutilated somehow, and his body starts producing crazy levels of estrogen, due to I don't know allergy to medicine or some scenario, is essentially "biologically female".