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Author Topic: whatever happened with Captain America being a hydra agent?  (Read 1631 times)

MTL76

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Re: whatever happened with Captain America being a hydra agent?
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2017, 02:27:39 AM »

SPOILERS:

Shit like this is what they used to have "What If" stories for.
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Strawman Abridged

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Re: whatever happened with Captain America being a hydra agent?
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2017, 06:50:18 AM »

I'm guessing modern day Marvel creative retreats involve the top brass playing a custom version of Cards Against Humanity to come up with storyline ideas.


What if _____ turned into a ______

What if  _____ and _______ started fighting because of _______ but the main bad guy is __________  and _______ dies
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Red Exodus

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Re: whatever happened with Captain America being a hydra agent?
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2017, 05:24:41 AM »

"it is revealed that Captain America, Steve Rogers, was always Hydra…because originally Hydra (and thus, the Nazis) won World War II. The Allies, in a last ditch attempt, use a Cosmic Cube to alter reality so that Hydra and the Nazis lose, and that is the Marvel Universe we know. A world that was artificially fabricated by the Allies, including a truly Allies-loyal Cap (possibly because the Allies never learned of his deception?). And thus, when Kobik turned Cap to Hydra, she was actually awakening his true self from the original timeline before the Allies changed everything, and thus allowing Rogers to restore Hydra to its ‘rightful’ position."

Marvel Comics really is the fucking worst.

Like Jesus fucking Christ.

Whoever okayed and wrote this story needs to die of cancer right now.
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80sBaby

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Re: whatever happened with Captain America being a hydra agent?
« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2017, 01:13:35 PM »

Actually, I think it's an good idea and interesting premise. Hell, it's what Marvel said from the beginning, that Cap wasn't mind-controlled or anything.

People just like to complain about change. Most of them don't even read comics anymore.
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Kallor

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Re: whatever happened with Captain America being a hydra agent?
« Reply #19 on: March 30, 2017, 02:52:04 PM »

I'm along for the ride because I believe it won't last, and the nature of comics allows for these kinds of temporary deviations, but it shouldn't stick.  Cap represents something about the better aspects of humanity that is substantially tarnished if his hero persona comes about artificially. 

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Not BAMF

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Re: whatever happened with Captain America being a hydra agent?
« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2017, 03:14:25 PM »

"it is revealed that Captain America, Steve Rogers, was always Hydra…because originally Hydra (and thus, the Nazis) won World War II. The Allies, in a last ditch attempt, use a Cosmic Cube to alter reality so that Hydra and the Nazis lose, and that is the Marvel Universe we know. A world that was artificially fabricated by the Allies, including a truly Allies-loyal Cap (possibly because the Allies never learned of his deception?). And thus, when Kobik turned Cap to Hydra, she was actually awakening his true self from the original timeline before the Allies changed everything, and thus allowing Rogers to restore Hydra to its ‘rightful’ position."

It is actually interesting. Certainly no worse as a pure concept than "DOCTOR OCTOPUS IS SPIDER-MAN NOW", but there's something about Cap having ORIGINALLY been Hydra that is just... not right. After decades, he never had a typical comics moment of shaking off his programming? Seems weird.
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The Captain

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Re: whatever happened with Captain America being a hydra agent?
« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2017, 04:39:27 PM »

So I guess this explains why Cap didn't know what Myspace was, or never attended a NASCAR race, or logged onto Youtube to watch a video.........
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Panthergod

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Re: whatever happened with Captain America being a hydra agent?
« Reply #22 on: March 31, 2017, 02:20:47 AM »

This is Man in the High Castle. read the book then watch the series. it's blatant, and actually very interesting conceptually.
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Red Exodus

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Re: whatever happened with Captain America being a hydra agent?
« Reply #23 on: March 31, 2017, 05:27:19 PM »

Quote
People just like to complain about change. Most of them don't even read comics anymore.

Not necessarily. Some changes are fine, but others, namely the ones that take a massive shit on established
continuity, including things that have always been integral to the character : when those things are tampered
with, its completely justifiable for people to get upset and complain about them.

The whole, "After all this time, X is not really X but is in fact X all along!" is not an original concept, and hasn't
been ever since fiction started. Sometimes it can work (see Terra from Teen Titans), other times, it just can't
work (see The Maximoff Twins).

Mostly because once you do the "X is really X and not X", it raises a whole set of questions, and considering
how long its been, it massively contradicts the status quo, from back when it started to now. And moreso, it
ends up ruining the characters involved.

Mephisto will always be one of the most retarded villains in comics, because apparently, he has the ability to
warp history/reality on a massive scale, and used this ability...to nullify a marriage. Not to counter any loss
he's ever had, effectively making himself unbeatable. No, let me just stop one single marriage.

This crap is just as fucking bullshit as the whole "Tony Stark was not a real Stark" retardation story. Or that
Mjolnor is powered by a sentient thunderstorm from space (god it gets dumber and dumber every time I
am forced to hear it).

If this was a rebooted universe (which Marvel needs to seriously fucking do already), then fine. This is a new U,
they can do whatever they want with it. But since they keep bringing in these writers with their fan fiction garbage
and messing with established things that shouldn't be messed with, it is absolutely infuriating.

Pointless complaints are people who complained that the new Ms. Marvel is muslim. A justifiable complaint is
their changing the twins to having been inhumans all along.
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MTL76

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Re: whatever happened with Captain America being a hydra agent?
« Reply #24 on: March 31, 2017, 05:53:03 PM »

Professor X is really a human who gathered the X-Men together to keep mutants under control.

Black Panther is really Adolf Hitler, who used plastic surgery to make himself look like a member of the Wakandan royal family, knowing that the Allies would never look for him there.

Batman is secretly the true head of organized crime in Gotham. He conducts mob business as Bruce Wayne, using his companies as front for illegal activities, and uses his Batman identity to eliminate the competition.
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Panthergod

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Re: whatever happened with Captain America being a hydra agent?
« Reply #25 on: March 31, 2017, 08:34:22 PM »

Only an  idiot would think this is permanent.
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MTL76

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Re: whatever happened with Captain America being a hydra agent?
« Reply #26 on: March 31, 2017, 08:50:14 PM »

It's about the disrespect.
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Red Exodus

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Re: whatever happened with Captain America being a hydra agent?
« Reply #27 on: March 31, 2017, 09:24:04 PM »

It's about the disrespect.

Pretty much.

There have been plenty of comics since their run where the covers used to sensationalize what was
in the issue. Your comic covers that said, "Not a hoax! In this issue X will die!" Or "This will change
X forever!" Most of the time, they were never really true, it's what sold the issue.

So then how is this different?

Mostly because neither one of those instances took a shit on established continuity. None of them
ever did anything that was really outrageous. Not until much later years where the writers had
basically free reign to do whatever the fuck they wanted. Which is something you really REALLY
shouldn't give your writers.

So just doing whatever the fuck shit just to keep interest isn't exciting. Or creative. Or original.
It's just lazy, pathetic, and disrespectful to the creators & writers beforehand who treated the
material with respect.
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MTL76

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Re: whatever happened with Captain America being a hydra agent?
« Reply #28 on: April 01, 2017, 12:26:36 AM »

Not only does it shit on continuity, it shits on the character. Captain America is a hero. He's not perfect, he can make mistakes, but at the end of the day he's supposed to be the kind of character that the reader can look at and say, "He's one of the good guys." And they make him a fucking Nazi.

And they do with all their other characters. Characters that fans just happen to enjoy reading about. Does Marvel think it's an accident that Thor, Captain America, Iron Man and the like have had such long-lasting fan support?

Fucking edgelords. Like I said, this would make more sense in a "What If?" In fact, there WAS a "What If?" in which Cap was a Nazi (gasp!), except his inherent decentness made him do the right thing in the end. That's how you tell an alternate reality story with an established character while still respecting them.
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Panthergod

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Re: whatever happened with Captain America being a hydra agent?
« Reply #29 on: April 01, 2017, 01:13:16 AM »

It a fucking story arc. nothing more. and its an obvious meta commentary on the alt right/Trump ascendacy, as a well as at least a reference to one of the greatest stories in speculative fiction by one of its most insightful creative talents, currently a critically acclaimed Streaming show. it a comemntary on the Zeitgeist of the times froma liberal perspective. Conceptually, at least, there is nothing wrong with this as a temporary stats quo change, to be reverted back to the classic version as we all know it will be. Does ANYONE genunely believe this will be permament?
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