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So...health care debate getting heated

therock

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So...health care debate getting heated
« on: February 22, 2017, 11:19:21 PM »
With all the town halls, dems getting their tea party on

What you think of that tatic, like it or not
Do you think it be overturn
Do you think it be replace with something good


Do know one thing..the republicnas seem to be full of shit when they said they had something to replace it all those years. There like a dog chasing a car at this moment. They caught the car and dont know what to do with it.

issue I think is people like whats in the health care, but dont like the mandate. Which is basicly how you pay for it. Dont know a good idea around it. namely since you need healthy people who got to pay into it. Who may not feel the need because thier healthy. Since health care that covers that many people going to be costly. That why health care shouldnt have a profit motive. Should be viewd if not as a right but a neccessity. Something that we going to go "Hey going to cost some money". Basily how we do with millitary spending without the waste.



XerxesTWD

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Re: So...health care debate getting heated
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2017, 08:23:45 AM »
People want and deserve healthcare. Taxpayers pay the government more than enough money for them to get their shit together and pay for it for everybody.

The world is going to hit a wall soon as more and more jobs become automated. Unskilled labor, skilled labor, mathematical processes? Jobs in myriad fields will be gone within your lifetimes.

If we intend to remain a largely capitalist society then a universal basic income, education and universal healthcare need to become part of the package every American gets. You can't hold back entire industries to keep people in jobs instead of robots because it's fucking stupidity of the highest order.

You can't let your citizens die off because they can't afford healthcare if they're unemployed. That's stupidity of the highest order.

Re: So...health care debate getting heated
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2017, 09:21:38 AM »

soleran

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Re: So...health care debate getting heated
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2017, 12:16:43 PM »


If we intend to remain a largely capitalist society then a universal basic income, education and universal healthcare need to become part of the package every American gets. You can't hold back entire industries to keep people in jobs instead of robots because it's fucking stupidity of the highest order.



Irony of the highest degree.

On the topic of the ACA how well would it operate with so many insurers pulling out of the pools by next year?  So before we even spend a second on how good or bad the ACA is know that without insurers you have no aca.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2017, 12:21:26 PM by soleran »

g-train

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Re: So...health care debate getting heated
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2017, 12:53:44 PM »


If we intend to remain a largely capitalist society then a universal basic income, education and universal healthcare need to become part of the package every American gets. You can't hold back entire industries to keep people in jobs instead of robots because it's fucking stupidity of the highest order.



Irony of the highest degree.

On the topic of the ACA how well would it operate with so many insurers pulling out of the pools by next year?  So before we even spend a second on how good or bad the ACA is know that without insurers you have no aca.

On some level socialism's often (always?) been a part of our society in one way or another.

Basically giving power to the lower class helps keep the elite's from creating a monopoly and a default Monarchy more or less.

soleran

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Re: So...health care debate getting heated
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2017, 01:23:30 PM »
You missed the irony in that you don't provide a universal income and maintain a largely capitalist economy.

Yes we are in a mixed system of capitalism and socialism which is fine and I think Xerxes is right in that the future we might need to resort to a universal income but we would become predominantly socialistic.

XerxesTWD

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Re: So...health care debate getting heated
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2017, 01:25:06 PM »


If we intend to remain a largely capitalist society then a universal basic income, education and universal healthcare need to become part of the package every American gets. You can't hold back entire industries to keep people in jobs instead of robots because it's fucking stupidity of the highest order.



Irony of the highest degree.

On the topic of the ACA how well would it operate with so many insurers pulling out of the pools by next year?  So before we even spend a second on how good or bad the ACA is know that without insurers you have no aca.
Actually, I meant to put "consumerist" society. Good catch.

therock

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Re: So...health care debate getting heated
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2017, 01:29:19 PM »


If we intend to remain a largely capitalist society then a universal basic income, education and universal healthcare need to become part of the package every American gets. You can't hold back entire industries to keep people in jobs instead of robots because it's fucking stupidity of the highest order.



Irony of the highest degree.

On the topic of the ACA how well would it operate with so many insurers pulling out of the pools by next year?  So before we even spend a second on how good or bad the ACA is know that without insurers you have no aca.

didnt they pull out because obama said no to a merger. So thus it was a tatic to get him to say yes. The ACA actully brings a lot of customers to them

But the real way to fix it is to get the insurers out of it, otherwise you probally be at thier mercy.  There one trump idea that was good (although he kind of back out of it when he talked to the drug companies) was allow medicare to begotiate and cap prices

soleran

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Re: So...health care debate getting heated
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2017, 02:04:40 PM »


If we intend to remain a largely capitalist society then a universal basic income, education and universal healthcare need to become part of the package every American gets. You can't hold back entire industries to keep people in jobs instead of robots because it's fucking stupidity of the highest order.




Most states prior to the ACA had high risk health care pools, when the ACA began all the hrhp closed and joined the aca.  Now we know statistically that roughly 90% of claims are based on 10% of the population it was a no brainer that a death spiral
Irony of the highest degree.

On the topic of the ACA how well would it operate with so many insurers pulling out of the pools by next year?  So before we even spend a second on how good or bad the ACA is know that without insurers you have no aca.

didnt they pull out because obama said no to a merger. So thus it was a tatic to get him to say yes. The ACA actully brings a lot of customers to them

But the real way to fix it is to get the insurers out of it, otherwise you probally be at thier mercy.  There one trump idea that was good (although he kind of back out of it when he talked to the drug companies) was allow medicare to begotiate and cap prices

Most states had high risk health pools and 90% of the claims come from 10% of the users so it was only a matter of time for a death spiral especially with carriers leaving the pools.

Imperial

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Re: So...health care debate getting heated
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2017, 02:05:59 PM »
didnt they pull out because obama said no to a merger. So thus it was a tatic to get him to say yes. The ACA actully brings a lot of customers to them

But the real way to fix it is to get the insurers out of it, otherwise you probally be at thier mercy.  There one trump idea that was good (although he kind of back out of it when he talked to the drug companies) was allow medicare to begotiate and cap prices

Yes, that is the answer. Private health insurance for a backbone is about as logical as private prisons. Which is to say, not very at all. Both are incredibly wasteful, dangerous, corrupt, and feather the nests of fat cat special interests who pay off politicians to help dupe the public.

Sadly the radical modern GOP will go the other way and tear down what few positive things have been done. Plus doubling down on the most problematic aspects of health care. While telling everyone their system is best, and all views to the contrary are fake news.
Thom Hartmann : "How can you have a functioning nation when you don't believe in science or education?"


Dlbiininja

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Re: So...health care debate getting heated
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2017, 05:19:54 PM »
It is nice seeing these Repubs run like hell from these town hall meetings.  They're  getting what they deserve.  You can't deny all these people who rely on the ACA.  And not have something in place to take its place.  And even with a full time position that's giving people coverage.  That's not necessarily covering all their needs.  Factor in places that want to only give part-time jobs for whatever reasons. 

   Then again there is the irony of this is what you wanted when those who voted for this admin got what they wanted.  Now, they're realizing the consequences. 
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soleran

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Re: So...health care debate getting heated
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2017, 05:42:16 PM »
It is nice seeing these Repubs run like hell from these town hall meetings.  They're  getting what they deserve.  You can't deny all these people who rely on the ACA.  And not have something in place to take its place.  And even with a full time position that's giving people coverage.  That's not necessarily covering all their needs.  Factor in places that want to only give part-time jobs for whatever reasons. 

   Then again there is the irony of this is what you wanted when those who voted for this admin got what they wanted.  Now, they're realizing the consequences.

Most of the ACA users are from expanded medicaid, not from some magicaly awesome insurance offered by for profit insurance carriers.  Now you should direct your aggression twards what it is, more welfare or less.

Thanos6

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Re: So...health care debate getting heated
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2017, 05:43:37 PM »
I love that one conversation going around Facebook about the guy who wants to see Obamacare repealed but isn't worried because he's covered by the ACA.
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g-train

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Re: So...health care debate getting heated
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2017, 06:16:20 PM »
You missed the irony in that you don't provide a universal income and maintain a largely capitalist economy.

Yes we are in a mixed system of capitalism and socialism which is fine and I think Xerxes is right in that the future we might need to resort to a universal income but we would become predominantly socialistic.

I would say the irony is that without it we also can't maintain a largely capitalist economy.


Imperial

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Re: So...health care debate getting heated
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2017, 06:17:21 PM »
It is nice seeing these Repubs run like hell from these town hall meetings.  They're  getting what they deserve.  You can't deny all these people who rely on the ACA.  And not have something in place to take its place.  And even with a full time position that's giving people coverage.  That's not necessarily covering all their needs.  Factor in places that want to only give part-time jobs for whatever reasons. 

   Then again there is the irony of this is what you wanted when those who voted for this admin got what they wanted.  Now, they're realizing the consequences.

Most of the ACA users are from expanded medicaid, not from some magicaly awesome insurance offered by for profit insurance carriers.  Now you should direct your aggression twards what it is, more welfare or less.

Much of the anger rightly belongs left at the feet of modern, mostly Republican, politicians. Who advocate burning through trillions on brainless wars, corporate welfare, and waste for the military industrial complex.

But still want to play the economically thoughtful card with things that involve maintaining a first world existence, and moving a nation successfully to the next generation.
Thom Hartmann : "How can you have a functioning nation when you don't believe in science or education?"