Herochat

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Please note that forum is still under construction.


heroes
Pages: 1 [2] 3

Author Topic: Anyone interested in "America"?  (Read 676 times)

Hulkster

  • Stonemason
  • *****
  • Posts: 3221
    • View Profile
Re: Anyone interested in "America"?
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2017, 02:06:11 PM »

I fear that this is just like them putting Marguerite Bennett on Angela's book.  Gillen seemed to have Angela down, yet Marvel/Disney had to put an agenda focused lesbian on the title who ended up writing a doofus book about a love affair between Angela and a trans woman.  Angela was a well established character from Image that Marvel was able to acquire and they have totally failed her by giving her to Bennett and Bendis.

Interesting; in giving Angela a "transwoman" partner?

Are they in some affect implying that Angela is essentially a "transman" due to being a warrior woman?

Maybe, but Gamora is a warrior woman and the two of them flirted with each other:

Logged

Jabroniville

  • King
  • ****
  • Posts: 1683
    • View Profile
Re: Anyone interested in "America"?
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2017, 09:46:19 PM »

I just find it funny that she was in The Ultimates for like two years before somebody explained what her powers were.

She's still a ways ahead of Nightmask and that sister of his- those two NEVER had their powers explained.

The Ultimates has been out for only 16 months.  I'm not sure where this specific explanation of her powers you refer to.  Pretty much everything she does now she was shown doing in Young Avengers.  What we don't know are the specifics surrounding her origin.  We've only gotten vague hints.
Yes, but as a writer, you're supposed to establish what the characters can do CONSTANTLY. ESPECIALLY in issue one. I'd never seen the character before, so I was utterly clueless about her and had to look it up. If you hadn't read Young Avengers previously, she is literally just some chick in street clothes that is for some reason on the team.
Logged

Hulkster

  • Stonemason
  • *****
  • Posts: 3221
    • View Profile
Re: Anyone interested in "America"?
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2017, 10:52:49 PM »

I just find it funny that she was in The Ultimates for like two years before somebody explained what her powers were.

She's still a ways ahead of Nightmask and that sister of his- those two NEVER had their powers explained.

The Ultimates has been out for only 16 months.  I'm not sure where this specific explanation of her powers you refer to.  Pretty much everything she does now she was shown doing in Young Avengers.  What we don't know are the specifics surrounding her origin.  We've only gotten vague hints.
Yes, but as a writer, you're supposed to establish what the characters can do CONSTANTLY. ESPECIALLY in issue one. I'd never seen the character before, so I was utterly clueless about her and had to look it up. If you hadn't read Young Avengers previously, she is literally just some chick in street clothes that is for some reason on the team.

Every issue, they give a character summary when the character first appears.  This is from issue 1 and she even discusses her experience:

« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 01:10:06 AM by Hulkster »
Logged

Jabroniville

  • King
  • ****
  • Posts: 1683
    • View Profile
Re: Anyone interested in "America"?
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2017, 06:37:28 AM »

It only lists her Transdimensional Teleportation as a power, which is of course the one you see used most frequently. I didn't realize till checking Wikipedia that her powers were:

Quote
Chavez possesses superhuman strength and durability, and the power of flight. Chavez also has the power to kick open holes in reality, allowing her and her teammates to travel through the multiverse and into other realities.[30] Ms. America is also able to move at superhuman speeds, able to catch up to and nearly exceed the speed of light as observed by Spectrum in her light form.
That shit ain't all listed there. And really, the whole team has that problem- I only notice it with Ms. Chavez because she's unknown to me. They don't even go into detail over her origin. It goes back to what Jim Shooter said: "EVERY ISSUE IS SOMEONE'S FIRST ISSUE!"

I mean, I'm not asking everyone to go into awkward Exposition Speak. Or the stuff Chris Claremont used to do, where they repeated their powers every issue ("the focused totality of my psychic powers"). But you gotta give us SOMETHING. And only the tiniest snippets of backstory aren't really effective, either. Keep in mind Infinites ran for many issues after that, and then relaunched- more specifics are needed, and frequently. REMIND people of why people are the way that they are.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 06:40:39 AM by Jabroniville »
Logged

riv6672

  • Lizardman
  • *******
  • Posts: 18414
  • MAY 2000-MAR 2017
    • View Profile
Re: Anyone interested in "America"?
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2017, 11:33:08 AM »

Wow, yeah i'm on board with your line of thinking here. Plus you referenced Jim Shooter.
-bows-
Logged

Hulkster

  • Stonemason
  • *****
  • Posts: 3221
    • View Profile
Re: Anyone interested in "America"?
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2017, 04:04:21 PM »

Which of her powers is not shown in issue #1?  We see her hovering in the air.  We see her ripping through constructs.  An entire sequence is dedicated to Monica's observation of her speed and this is the first time her speed is ever shown in any book IIRC.  By issue #2, we see the teleportation stars and by issue #3, we see heavy usage of the teleportation stars.  Her power is pretty basic.  A top tier flying brick who can teleport herself, others and objects across dimensions.  Of course, to each his own, but I personally don't see how a writer can give thorough power-set descriptions each issue without making the storyline awkward and taking up space for the story.  It seems unnecessary but that's just my opinion.   

And I can most definitely present Shooter written comics that don't explain the powers and origins of each major character. 
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 04:35:07 PM by Hulkster »
Logged

scourge

  • Crisis Actor
  • ******
  • Posts: 8308
    • View Profile
Re: Anyone interested in "America"?
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2017, 04:40:59 PM »

Nor should a comic, IMO, if it's an ongoing, have to educated the readers on the powersets of the characters over and over again. Ms. America essentially has the standard flying brick powerset + interdimensional travel. If it doesn't enhance the story to elaborate on that, it just becomes clunky and unnecessary. Not to mention that in the modern era, if someone gets that hung up on it, they can usually access the internet to find out more on the powers without having to read through all the books the character was featured in.

Thanos can do any number of things, but no one expects the writer to really make sure the reader knows all of that every time we see him.

I think giving those little caption bios as they do in Ultimates is more than enough and if you still want more, go online.
Logged
Four things to consider--

1) Bernie Sanders
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YBUZNfbJnp4

2) H2H Character Rankings
http://herochat.com/index.php?topic=11777.0

3) Master's words of wisdom
http://herochat.com/index.php?topic=12692.msg267150#msg267150

4) Getting involved in local politics

Hulkster

  • Stonemason
  • *****
  • Posts: 3221
    • View Profile
Re: Anyone interested in "America"?
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2017, 05:19:39 PM »

Agreed.  Plus, those caption bios are give EVERY issue, which is far more than most every other title.
Logged

Jabroniville

  • King
  • ****
  • Posts: 1683
    • View Profile
Re: Anyone interested in "America"?
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2017, 08:08:10 PM »

I'm not saying big, clunky explanations of everything. But even the super-strength is hardly mentioned or used. Now, that said, this is more of a THINKING book than a FIGHTING one. But like I said, even her origins and history aren't explained as much as they should be, either. For example, I didn't know she'd been in Young Avengers at all until I checked Wikipedia. Has anyone EVER mentioned how she was discovered, what she was up to, and why she joined the "Ultimates" team? Maybe it was in the first issue or two, I dunno.
Logged

Jabroniville

  • King
  • ****
  • Posts: 1683
    • View Profile
Re: Anyone interested in "America"?
« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2017, 07:09:38 AM »

T'Challa recruites her to be part of the team as shown in Avengers #0, which serves as the starting point for several titles.  Below is the Ultimates part of the book:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-nkqA7vrlC1A/VhUWCK7xfsI/AAAAAAAQ8a8/6uY1r7leeJ4/s1600/17_00.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-LqYzXzVgOZ4/VhUWnr3fIhI/AAAAAAAQ8fs/H6lcTgpm5LA/s1600/17_38.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-7znCbDX9L2E/VhUWouNKURI/AAAAAAAQ8f4/HyjDIAiwFdQ/s1600/17_39.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ykayXVFWaDQ/VhUWrC1I7lI/AAAAAAAQ8gA/ktci1eSxqvo/s1600/17_40.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-7ADovLyF08M/VhUWrkGCHBI/AAAAAAAQ8gI/FhxDKpQne6g/s1600/17_41.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-q7VTORN4_9U/VhUWsL-9D5I/AAAAAAAQ8gM/c1GIcypcL14/s1600/17_42.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-FcvCuI6Vrvs/VhUWtet8aQI/AAAAAAAQ8gU/d7CgAVhqrFQ/s1600/17_43.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-tDHGDicGIQY/VhUWvVaYc8I/AAAAAAAQ8gg/UBoImNUv5ww/s1600/17_44.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-zqacX4rPcyk/VhUWv67tgqI/AAAAAAAQ8gk/XFU8FdCed2k/s1600/17_45.jpg

As far as her origin, that would require reading Young Avengers, especially issue #14, and even then, there is a lot still unknown.
That's a little better. Though it still doesn't really explain the totality of her powers (nor super-speed). She just punches a big monster, implying she's strong, and she talks about her teleportation powers. It's possibly I either missed out on that issue, or just don't remember it because I'm old and I forget things (if I got fewer books a month, I would probably do better). In any case, it's been a LONG time since that one came out (and Ms. Chavez has had like zero "real world relationship stuff" since then, either).

I guess in the era of Wikipedia it's less necessary to have Exposition-Speak- and a lack of knowledge of her powers hasn't hampered the comic, since it's mostly about the stuff they're fixing, not punching (or else I'd just... check Wikipedia). It's just something I notice that comics have gotten bad for. Ewing's not even close to the worst for it, though he can be pretty bad for just throwing people out there fighting without explanation of what's going on IN the fights- it's just background stuff to the plotting and personalities of the characters. Which is more important, truthfully. It's just something I notice about comics seeming to assume that you know more than the comic ever explains.

And yeah... Shooter preached a lot, but didn't practice as much. His ideas were solid, though.
Logged

riv6672

  • Lizardman
  • *******
  • Posts: 18414
  • MAY 2000-MAR 2017
    • View Profile
Re: Anyone interested in "America"?
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2017, 12:05:37 PM »

Yeah they were.
He was only human, though. I think,
Logged

Jabroniville

  • King
  • ****
  • Posts: 1683
    • View Profile
Re: Anyone interested in "America"?
« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2017, 06:42:17 AM »

Hah- ironically enough, Ultimates2 features a scene where the "Troubleshooters" attack the Ultimates, and guess what? Every single person describes what their powers are (usually in the terms of "talking smack" or "bragging" so it doesn't come off as Robotic Exposition), explains what's going on, and more. One of the better "an explanation of what's going on" scenes I've read in recent memory, even with the weird esoteric powers of the current antagonists.
Logged

Hulkster

  • Stonemason
  • *****
  • Posts: 3221
    • View Profile
Re: Anyone interested in "America"?
« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2017, 02:23:37 PM »

Hah- ironically enough, Ultimates2 features a scene where the "Troubleshooters" attack the Ultimates, and guess what? Every single person describes what their powers are (usually in the terms of "talking smack" or "bragging" so it doesn't come off as Robotic Exposition), explains what's going on, and more. One of the better "an explanation of what's going on" scenes I've read in recent memory, even with the weird esoteric powers of the current antagonists.

Yea, I saw that.  Compared to other modern writers, I think that Ewing is pretty good about such details, especially with regard to newly introduced characters.  I think they all assume that readers are familiar with established characters or that there is enough Wikis to find out.  ;D
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3